Zombie Rush the Stimulus Package...don't read it, just pass it! (1 Viewer)

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

"Trust us, we know what we're doing!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obama_economy

I'd like to see what this economic stimulus package actually entrails.

Republicans fought the bill as wasteful. "We don't have a moment to spare," Obama declared at the White House as Democrats hastened to do his bidding.

Another week that we delay is another 100,000 or more people unemployed. I don't think we want that on our consciences," said Rep. David Obey, D-Wis., chairman of the House Appropriations Committee and one of the leading architects of the legislation.

 

[blue32]

"Trust us, we know what we're doing!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/obama_economy

I'd like to see what this economic stimulus package actually entrails.

My opinion on these types of packages and spending is this:

I'd rather spend more money improving our countries infrastructure, defense systems at home, cities, etc,etc, and helping out the poor recover, then spend an insane amount of money furthering our interests over seas, while we suffer back here.

If Portland can get some funding to create better free-ways here, then count me in.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I agree that improving the general infrastructure of the country is a good thing. However, it seems like a general spending progrma than a "rescue" package....I'm still wary about the $700 billion bailout...1/2 the money was apparantly spent on buying up banks, not freeing credit. I voted for the high speed train system in California. Its extra tax but its something I think is important to the infrastructure and would indeed "stimulate" more commerce.

However, just throwing money at government programs to spend the money for spcial projects...I'm skeptical.

This apparantly is some of the breakdown?

http://libertymaven.com/2009/01/28/...ll-does-little-to-stimulate-the-economy/4159/

If the goal is to stimulate the economy to alleviate the effects of the “deepening recession”, then why does the bill contain the following (which is definitely not an exhaustive list):

* $87 billion for Medicare outlays and related spending
* $20 billion toward nutrition assistance program (food stamps)
* $2.8 billion to expand broadband Internet service in rural areas
* $4 billion for programs “to develop rural communities…”

* $3 billion for grants to improve the criminal justice system
* $3 billion for grants to fund science and technology research
* $1 billion for periodic censuses and programs
* $1 billion for programs of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration
* $1 billion for the Community Oriented Policing Services program
* $2 billion for “other activities”
* $4 billion to the Department of Defense to repair, maintain, and renovate its facilities; for energy-efficiency projects, including the modernizing of heating/cooling and electrical systems; and for improving
Army barracks
* $43.9 billion for the Department of Energy (DOE),
* $4.5 billion for the Army Corps of Engineers
* $500 million for the Bureau of Reclamation
* $8.7 billion to promote energy efficiency and conservation at federal facilities and to support small businesses
* $1.1 billion for a variety of programs administered by the Department of Homeland Security
* $8.4 billion for the Clean Water and Drinking Water State Revolving Funds (SRFs)
* $6.6 billion would fund various programs, including capital improvements and maintenance for the Forest Service and National Park Service, the Superfund program, and wildland fire management
* $20.4 billion for programs administered by the Department of Health and Human Services
* $4.6 billion for employment and training programs administered by the
Department of Labor
* $20 billion to renovate elementary and secondary schools
* $17.6 billion for Pell grants and other student financial assistance and facilities at post-secondary institutions including federal student loan programs
* $29.1 billon for other education programs aimed particularly at elementary and secondary education
* $6.0 billion for military construction projects of the Department of Defense
* $1 billion for the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) to maintain and repair VA medical facilities and cemeteries
* $276 million would be provided to the Capital Investment Fund for specific information-technology (IT) projects
* $224 million would be provided for construction requirements of the International Boundary and Water Commission, United States and Mexico
* $30 billion for highway construction
* $13.1 billion for other transportation programs administered by DOT
* $11.2 billion for housing assistance programs administered by HUD
* $5.2 billion for grants to states and cities for activities related to community development
* $41.2 billion per year for 10 highway programs at the state and local level
* $10.4 billion per year for transit programs at the state and local level
* $39.5 billion available to states each twice a year to help them balance their books
* $7.5 billion in each year would be reserved for incentive grants to be given to states on a competitive basis in fiscal year 2010, based on states meeting specified criteria in how they spent their initial allocations
* $2.3 billion “emergency” spending for the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program
* a variety of tax credits for desired behavior
* additional unemployment benefits

 

[PapaG]

The CBO report shows that almost none of the money will be spent prior to the 2010 election cycle.

What's the rush if the money isn't being immediately spent?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Really? that's pretty nuts.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

the bank bailout was rushed too...just to "free credit"...did any of that shit work at all?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

ZERO republicans voted for the bill in the House.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/toby_h...cans_deliver_slap_in_the_face_to_barack_obama

President Barack Obama got the $825 (or $1.2 trillion over a decade) stimulus package through the House of Representatives but the 244 to 188 vote is a hollow victory indeed. Without a single Republican voting for the bill, his high-profile visit to Capitol Hill on Tuesday came to exactly naught - at least on the House side.

Obama vowed to change Washington and usher in a new post-partisan era. The the mood music and optics were pitch perfect as he trekked up to the Hill. Republicans praised his gesture, welcomed his sincere demeanour and appreciated his willingness to listen.

Problem was, he wanted only to listen and did not want to act on what Republicans said. When he was asked if he would re-structure the package to include more tax cuts, he reportedly responded: "Feel free to whack me over the head because I probably will not compromise on that part."

He apparently added: " I understand that and I will watch you on Fox News and feel bad about myself."

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123310466514522309.html

More parts of the Stimulus Bill.

There's $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that hasn't turned a profit in 40 years

$2 billion for child-care subsidies

$50 million for that great engine of job creation, the National Endowment for the Arts

$400 million for global-warming research and another $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects.

There's even $650 million on top of the billions already doled out to pay for digital TV conversion coupons.

Some $30 billion, or less than 5% of the spending in the bill, is for fixing bridges or other highway projects. There's another $40 billion for broadband and electric grid development, airports and clean water projects that are arguably worthwhile priorities.

Add the roughly $20 billion for business tax cuts, and by our estimate only $90 billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus.

 

[Denny Crane]

Republicans passed all kinds of things in the House when they controlled it. Not much of that passed the senate.

It remains to be seen what happens with this bill.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

easy, it will pass as is without opposition. Dems control the senate.

 

[Denny Crane]

easy, it will pass as is without opposition. Dems control the senate.

They need 60 votes for cloture to even vote on the bill. They don't have 60 democrats, so they're going to have to cut a bargain with the most willing republicans. Or republicans can stand (rightly) on principle until a valid bill is presented.

 

[Minstrel]

They need 60 votes for cloture to even vote on the bill. They don't have 60 democrats, so they're going to have to cut a bargain with the most willing republicans. Or republicans can stand (rightly) on principle until a valid bill is presented.

When Democrats were threatening similar stands on principle, about four years ago, you called them obstructionist. You also seemed to advocate that Republicans take the "nuclear option" of changing the procedural rules to prevent Democrat fillibusters.

Do you now advocate Democrats change the procedural rules to prevent obstructionist Republicans from fillibustering?

 

[blazerboy30]

Damn, Obama and I clearly have different ideas of what a "stimulus package" should look like.

This looks like a dream-come-true shopping spree for the Democrats. A shopping spree labeled and disguised as a stimulus package.

 

[Minstrel]

Damn, Obama and I clearly have different ideas of what a "stimulus package" should look like.

This looks like a dream-come-true shopping spree for the Democrats. A shopping spree labeled and disguised as a stimulus package.

Shopping stimulates the economy. Many economists urge people to go out and spend money to stimulate the economy.

Obama's just doing all the work for you. Smart. Prevents people having to spend money on gas to drive to the mall.

 

[barfo]

Shopping stimulates the economy. Many economists urge people to go out and spend money to stimulate the economy.

Obama's just doing all the work for you. Smart. Prevents people having to spend money on gas to drive to the mall.

Obama is putting poor gas jockeys out of work! At least in Oregon and New Jersey!

barfo

 

[maxiep]

Shopping stimulates the economy. Many economists urge people to go out and spend money to stimulate the economy.

Obama's just doing all the work for you. Smart. Prevents people having to spend money on gas to drive to the mall.

Living within your means is what sustains an economy. OVERSPENDING doesn't help the economy long-term; it creates outsized supply which invariably leads to a destructive boom/bust cycle.

 

[maxiep]

As for passing the Senate, it will pass with 60-64 votes. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine are guaranteed to cross the aisle. Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman love this thing. And because Senators represent entire states instead of narrow districts, they're more likely to be more moderate, which means when the political winds blow strongly one way, they'll lean with them. Right now, it's a hurricane of socialism.

 

[Minstrel]

As for passing the Senate, it will pass with 60-64 votes. Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine are guaranteed to cross the aisle. Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman love this thing. And because Senators represent entire states instead of narrow districts, they're more likely to be more moderate, which means when the political winds blow strongly one way, they'll lean with them. Right now, it's a hurricane of socialism.

I prefer "tropical storm of socialism." A little bit more alliteration.

 

[blue32]

Whatever gets this country out of the rut. That's what he's supposed to do. So spend money, what's the big deal? Has it ever been any different? Has the bickering from either side every stopped? Has the budget been balanced in the last 8 years?

Fuck me, just get this country back up on its feet and create jobs, create infrastructure, create anything that will help people make it.

 

[Denny Crane]

I prefer "tropical storm of socialism." A little bit more alliteration.

Like in that island nation you conquered?

 

[Minstrel]

Like in that island nation you conquered?

Conquered only with charm. And socialism.

 

[maxiep]

Whatever gets this country out of the rut. That's what he's supposed to do. So spend money, what's the big deal? Has it ever been any different? Has the bickering from either side every stopped? Has the budget been balanced in the last 8 years?

Fuck me, just get this country back up on its feet and create jobs, create infrastructure, create anything that will help people make it.

This country is on its feet. This idea of a soup line America is a complete fiction. For the last part of the Clinton Administration and for most of the Bush Administration, our unemployment rate was below the natural rate. Inflation was low, yet real estate went on one of the biggest booms in this nation's history. We're there pockets of people left behind? Certainly, but that always happens.

This country's economy has taken blow after blow and kept on trucking along. This will be a likely be a deeper recession than the average one, but we'll get through it. Business cycles happen. This recession is a hangover from the government interferring in the private sector.

If you want to stimulate the economy, create a capital gains tax holiday, lower the corporate tax rate and lower income taxes. In other words, get the government the hell out of the way.

 

[maxiep]

Conquered only with charm. And socialism.

Getting something for nothing will always sound good to the masses.

 

[Minstrel]

Getting something for nothing will always sound good to the masses.

Getting something for nothing will always sound good to anyone. Corporations enjoy socialism as much as anyone, as evidenced by the bailouts.

We're always going to be a mix of capitalism and socialism. The question is which when and how much? But most people, in this country and all other democracies, believe that government has a role to play in managing the economy and in providing opportunities to those who need them.

 

[MikeDC]

Shopping stimulates the economy. Many economists urge people to go out and spend money to stimulate the economy.

Obama's just doing all the work for you. Smart. Prevents people having to spend money on gas to drive to the mall.

I don't know of many smart economists that do that.

But the end result is very much accurate. If you go out and blow a wad on a trip to the mall, you get... something. A shitty movie with your girlfriend, a slushy, a couple CDs, a new t-shirt.

Obama and the government are doing all that work for you (if spending someone else's money can be considered work), but unlike that trip to the mall, you don't even get that t-shirt.

We'd probably be a bit better off going to the mall. Or having the government print up shirts. I propose this one:

 

[Minstrel]

But the end result is very much accurate. If you go out and blow a wad on a trip to the mall, you get... something. A shitty movie with your girlfriend, a slushy, a couple CDs, a new t-shirt.

I'm sure you'll get an armband or something, if that's the issue. Socialists love to accessorize.

 

[maxiep]

I'm sure you'll get an armband or something, if that's the issue. Socialists love to accessorize.

A smart-alec answer still doesn't disprove his point.

 

[Minstrel]

A smart-alec answer still doesn't disprove his point.

What point? I was obviously making a joke about Obama shopping for all of us and MikeDC argued my joke. Rather than say, "I was joking, lighten up, my laissez faire brother," I made another joke.

If you mean that I've not yet disproved that Obama is a communist, I guess you're right.

 

[blue32]

This country is on its feet. This idea of a soup line America is a complete fiction. For the last part of the Clinton Administration and for most of the Bush Administration, our unemployment rate was below the natural rate. Inflation was low, yet real estate went on one of the biggest booms in this nation's history. We're there pockets of people left behind? Certainly, but that always happens.

This country's economy has taken blow after blow and kept on trucking along. This will be a likely be a deeper recession than the average one, but we'll get through it. Business cycles happen. This recession is a hangover from the government interferring in the private sector.

If you want to stimulate the economy, create a capital gains tax holiday, lower the corporate tax rate and lower income taxes. In other words, get the government the hell out of the way.

The Healthcare industry is the last place that I want to get Government out of. It's a complete crime what's going on. When insurance would rather pay for your assisted suicide rather then drugs to ease your pain, I find something inherently wrong with them.

Also, what went on with the deregulation of the oil futures was ridiculous, and with the housing market, loans, etc. You NEED to have big brother step in once in a while and get these god damned corporations to stop taking advantage of the American people, through their subterfuge, and fraud.

Now I'm not one for BIG Government, but I also don't like having this hands-off attitude that allows the richest corporates that are above the law to take advantage of everyone, effectively running this place into the ground.

Lower taxes = yes.
Lower corporate tax rate? = yes, but only if they keep jobs in this country.

 

[MikeDC]

What point? I was obviously making a joke about Obama shopping for all of us and MikeDC argued my joke. Rather than say, "I was joking, lighten up, my laissez faire brother," I made another joke.

I don't know that I was arguing so much as using it as a point of departure for a joke of my own. At this point, it's pretty much all (black) comedy

Which sort of fits into the joking and communist accessorizing motif. With the government doing our shopping we'll soon be back to the future with the latest in mid-70s Czechoslovakian fashion.