Russell Westbrook: Unimpressed

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Boob-No-More said:
How much better can Gibson and McDermott make them if Westbrook won't let them touch the ball in the 4th quarter? This is the same guy that regularly froze out a 4 time scoring champ with the game on the line. You think he's actually going to share the ball with Gibson and McDermott when he has a chance to play hero ball. Hah, good one!

BNM
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They are role players. Gibson's a garbage man.

Yeah, Westbrook doesn't let anyone touch the ball but he averages 10 assists per game.
 
andalusian said:
If Kawahi does not win the MVP - it is rigged. I bet he does not win the MVP.
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The Spurs' defense is 8 points per 100 better when Kawhi is off the court. His presence only impacts the Spurs' net rating by about 1.5 points.

Lebron impacts the Cavs' net rating by over 15 points. He is significantly more valuable to the Cavs than Kawhi is to the Spurs.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The Spurs' defense is 8 points per 100 better when Kawhi is off the court. His presence only impacts the Spurs' net rating by about 1.5 points.

Lebron impacts the Cavs' net rating by over 15 points. He is significantly more valuable to the Cavs than Kawhi is to the Spurs.
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What about Harden? Just curious.
 
Boob-No-More said:
WTF? My mom has been dead for 24 years? Just because someone isn't a Westbrook fanboy doesn't make him a social outcast with no friends and no life. I'd be winning to wager the exact opposite is true. Those impressed by Westbrook's gaudy stats are much more likely to be pimple faced teens guzzling cases of Mountain Dew in their mother's basements.

BNM
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Guess that means your Mom's basement is 12 ft under. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Love your insights.

Gramps...
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
They are role players. Gibson's a garbage man.

Yeah, Westbrook doesn't let anyone touch the ball but he averages 10 assists per game.
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Reading comprehension: I said he doesn't let his teammates touch the ball in the 4th quarter of close games. Go ahead, prove me wrong. How many FGAs did Russ have in the 4th quarter last night? How many did his teammates get? How many assists did he have with the game on the line. He pads his stats for three and a half quarters and the goes complete hero mode with the game on the line.

BNM
 
Should be noted that Westbrook has almost as big an impact on his team (14.2 pts/100) as Lebron does on his. Still, he has a massively lower TS% than the other 3, and has a significantly worse record. Lebron is the only one who has a significant impact on a top-tier team. He should undoubtedly be the MVP.
 
Boob-No-More said:
Reading comprehension: I said he doesn't let his teammates touch the ball in the 4th quarter of close games. Go ahead, prove me wrong. How many FGAs did Russ have in the 4th quarter last night? How many did his teammates get? How many assists did he have with the game on the line. He pads his stats for three and a half quarters and the goes complete hero mode with the game on the line.

BNM
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OKC was down 9 when Westbrook entered the game with about 9 min left. He scored 15 points and the game was tied in the clutch. The game was close because Westbrook took over and he tied it up as the game was winding down.

You feed the hot hand, he just came up a bit short. As was mentioned, this was a game the Blazers lose early in the season. Who gives a fuck about how many assists he gets as the game is down the line when he brought them back?
 
Wow, looking at the on/off court net ratings, it amazes me how large the impact of all the Warriors top guys are. Durant, Green, and Thompson all make the team about 10 points better by being on the floor, and Curry 15. Goes to show how amazingly well those 4 fit together, and really makes me think the Spurs are going to pass them before Durant returns.
 
I bash on Westbrick as much as anyone.
But at the end of the day, last night outside of missing 4 of his last 5 shots, and not getting Dipo involved.
Offensively I can't say much about how he played.
He was efficient, he kept his turnovers low, and the team offensively looked much better with him in than out.
One of the few games over Westbrick's career I can't say much about what he did offensively.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The Spurs' defense is 8 points per 100 better when Kawhi is off the court. His presence only impacts the Spurs' net rating by about 1.5 points.

Lebron impacts the Cavs' net rating by over 15 points. He is significantly more valuable to the Cavs than Kawhi is to the Spurs.
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Since when is that a criterion for MVP?
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
OKC was down 9 when Westbrook entered the game with about 9 min left. He scored 15 points and the game was tied in the clutch. The game was close because Westbrook took over and he tied it up as the game was winding down.

You feed the hot hand, he just came up a bit short. As was mentioned, this was a game the Blazers lose early in the season. Who gives a fuck about how many assists he gets as the game is down the line when he brought them back?
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Did they win? No. They actually briefly took the lead, but then Westbrook tried to play the hero and win it all by himself. He was NOT the hot hand. Olidipo was. In the last three minutes, Westbrook was 2-7. Olidipo was 1-1, and made a 3-pointer that brought OKC within 1 with 26 seconds left. It was the only time he touched the ball in the last 3 minutes of the game.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Did they win? No. They actually briefly took the lead, but then Westbrook tried to play the hero and win it all by himself. He was NOT the hot hand. Olidipo was. In the last three minutes, Westbrook was 2-7. Olidipo was 1-1, and made a 3-pointer that brought OKC within 1 with 26 seconds left. It was the only time he touched the ball in the last 3 minutes of the game.

BNM
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He scored 15 in the last 9 minutes of the game. He was the hot hand.

Making one basket does not qualify one as being the "hot hand".
 
BlazerWookee said:
Since when is that a criterion for MVP?
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Impact on (ie, value to) your team? I'd hope that has always been a criterion for MVP. It's literally the center of the term.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Impact on (ie, value to) your team? I'd hope that has always been a criterion for MVP. It's literally the center of the term.
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It has never been. It should have always been. MVP is about gaudy stats, so Westbrook is a shoo-in.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
He scored 15 in the last 9 minutes of the game. He was the hot hand.

Making one basket does not qualify one as being the "hot hand".
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2-7 qualifies as the hot hand? Of course, Olidipo only made one basket, that was all Westbrook would let him shoot! That was my point! Going into the last three minutes, Olidipo was 3-4 from 3-point range for the game. The ONLY shot he got in the last 3 minutes was a 3-pointer, which he made. Meanwhile, Russ was chucking up 7 shots and missing 5 of them.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
2-7 qualifies as the hot hand? Of course, Olidipo only made one basket, that was all Westbrook would let him shoot! That was my point! Going into the last three minutes, Olidipo was 3-4 from 3-point range for the game. The ONLY shot he got in the last 3 minutes was a 3-pointer, which he made. Meanwhile, Russ was chucking up 7 shots and missing 5 of them.

BNM
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2-7 doesn't, but the 15 points in 9 minutes does. Shooters gonna shoot.

Again, the one shot Oladipo took doesn't mean he's the hot hand, nor the other shots he took the rest of the entire game. If we took the whole game into account, Russ was the "hot hand". He scored 58 points.

If anything, Oladipo didn't get the chance to be the hot hand as you contend he was. To say that because he made one three pointer in the last 3 minutes and that means he was the "hot hand" is ridiculous.
 
I can't believe there are still blind Russ haters. The guy has improved so much. His maniacal game is still so underrated.
 
Westbrook is an insane player, but majorly flawed. He is like a über talented and athletic JR Smith, the guy can and will shoot you in or out of games.
 
The guy AVERAGES a triple double. Dame doesn't have a single one yet in 5 years. Advanced stats, and random ass metrics aside, that is INSANE, even in this day and age with the offensive madness in the league and his crazy high usg.

Regardless, his team is a full 7 games ahead of ours with a very comparable roster (talent wise). Give the guy some credit for Godsakes. Ya he's flawed, but he also isn't human. 8 yrs into his career, and he's still so polarizing.
 
Look I'll give Westbrook his due. He is one of the best PG' s in the league. I admire his motor and his ability to take over games. That said, his selfishness has been and will be his downfall. If he would have got Oladipo more involved, maybe some of his other teammates, then he would have put his team in a place to win. But, he had to play so many minutes, score so many points to make up for his team, which brought little to the table. OKC's chemistry is crap. They are winning as much as they are because Westbrook is putting so many points every night sure, but he's not making his teammates better around him, he's making up for their absence offensively. He's not a good teammate or leader.

I have to give it up to the Blazers. Last night they played almost perfectly executed team basketball. Our bench played the best they have so far this season. Vonleh was a beast inside. Crabbe played famtasticly and ended with a +15. Meyers Leonard played the best ball I have seen him play this season, maybe any season. He had a +24 ....We played amazing ball. We had a fantastic leader in Lillard. We got CJ going off like crazy and Nurkic fearless with 5 fouls....thats inspiring fucking basketball. Westbrook can have his 58 points I'll take the Blazer team I saw last night.
 
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Boob-No-More said:
Reading comprehension: I said he doesn't let his teammates touch the ball in the 4th quarter of close games. Go ahead, prove me wrong.
Click to expand...

http://bkref.com/tiny/i6XBo

After 64 games, Westbrook has exactly 100 assists in the 4th quarter. The upper right corner says that either 32 or 53 of them were in close games, depending upon how you define a close game.

>10 points...47 assists
≤5 points...32 assists
6-10 points...21 assists
total 4th quarter...100 assists

I can't just divide 32 or 53 by 64 to find assists per game, since not all 64 games were close when he made each assist. But 32 or 53 is not a low number.
 
jlprk said:
http://bkref.com/tiny/i6XBo

After 64 games, Westbrook has exactly 100 assists in the 4th quarter. The upper right corner says that either 32 or 53 of them were in close games, depending upon how you define a close game.

>10 points...47 assists
≤5 points...32 assists
6-10 points...21 assists
total 4th quarter...100 assists

I can't just divide 32 or 53 by 64 to find assists per game, since not all 64 games were close when he made each assist. But 32 or 53 is not a low number.
Click to expand...
He has 642 assists on the season; 100 in the 4th quarter. 15.6% of his assists come in the 4th.
He has 1566 FGA on the season; 393 in the 4th quarter. 25.1% of his FGA come in the 4th.
He's missed 289 3PA on the season; 79 in the 4th quarter. 27.3% of his missed 3PA come in the 4th.

He passes less and chucks more in the 4th. The stats are clear.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
He has 642 assists on the season; 100 in the 4th quarter. 15.6% of his assists come in the 4th.
He has 1566 FGA on the season; 393 in the 4th quarter. 25.1% of his FGA come in the 4th.
He's missed 289 3PA on the season; 79 in the 4th quarter. 27.3% of his missed 3PA come in the 4th.

He passes less and chucks more in the 4th. The stats are clear.
Click to expand...

You didn't distinguish between close games and non-close. Every star takes over more in the 4th quarter. But Boob said that he shuts out his teammates in close games, which is far from the case. For every one of the assists on my list, Westbrook must also be attempting a couple of failed assists. So he's trying. But you're right that any star will try that less in the 4th quarter.
 
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