Sacramento Kings vs. Golden State Warriors

[DynastYWarrioR6]

Pretty simple, vote for the winner of this matchup. Winner advances to play the winner of the 2/7 series.

Sacramento Kings - J_Ray:
PG: Jarret Jack / Louis Williams
SG: John Salmons / CJ Miles
SF: Shane Battier / Marvin Williams / Dominic McGuire
PF: Chris Bosh / Chuck Hayes
C: Andrew Bogut / Spencer Hawes / Ian Mahinmi

Golden State Warriors - Accelerate:
PG: Jason Kidd / Marcus Williams
SG: Bonzi Wells / Jerry Stackhouse / Willie Green
SF: Andres Nocioni / Al Harrington / Steve Novak
PF: Hedo Turkoglu / Joey Dorsey
C: Tim Duncan / DeAndre Jordan

 

[J_Ray]

I just don't see how his team is going to stop me from scoring in this series. Not only do I have a pretty big height advantage upfront, but his whole team is pretty slow-footed. Kidd showed how he could kill a great defensive team when he went to the Mavs, Bonzi is aging, Nocioni & Hedo are both slow-footed and Duncan is no exception. Not only are Hedo or Nocioni both giving up a height advantage to Bosh but Bosh is probably just as quick, if not quicker than both of them. There is no way a small ball team would be effective with that lineup, and there is no real great defensive players on that bench either. He also has very litte, to no post depth, so he'll get demolished in the paint the 8 minutes (minimum) Duncan goes out, and have no post scoring. Dorsey and Jordan are both very raw at this point, and Harrington isn't anything special at C, and would give up definite height advantage.

I just don't see his offense working that well either, even though he has Kidd and Duncan, he has 2 chuckers and another guy that needs the ball to be effective. Hedo was the main ballhandler for Orlando last year, and needs to be the facilitator to play up to his potential he showed this year, his 1 good breakout season. Hedo was top 25 in the NBA in shots attempted per 48 minutes, add that in with Nocioni, Bonzi, Harrington, & Stack all being chuckers themselves, someone is going to lose their shots and not put up anything close to what they usually do. That or Duncan won't get nearly the same amount of touches on offense. I also have great hustle players that will make an effort to play defense, led by my stopper Shane Battier. Bogut and Bosh have both showed they're decent shot blockers also, so it's not like there isn't any interior D if they do get to the hoop.

I plan on using an 8-9 players rotation, so don't look at C.J. Miles and think he's going to be playing @ back-up SG. My Swingmen rotation is Salmons/Battier/Marvin Williams with them all playing around 32 minutes, maybe Battier a bit more since he can shoot. Miles might see a few minutes in case of foul trouble or if the team needs another shooter.....or in blowouts lol

The thread seemed like it needed life

 

[Accelerate]

The thread seemed like it needed life

Grrarr, I just realized I posted in the Pacific Division thread.

I've got experience going for me. All of my players outside of the two rookies have playoff experience and I'm not 100% sure here but I can't recall anyone in the Kings roster having any playoff experience past the first round. My centerpiece, Tim Duncan, has never been eliminated in the first round and has a host of hardware to evidence this. Jason Kidd, while yes rather washed up, still has led a team into 10 Finals games. Those are two of the greatest leaders of their era. Stack, too has some Finals experience in that veteran head of his. We've got reliable crunch-time performers in Jason, Timmy, Turk and Stackhouse. The killer instinct and hunger's right there. Defensively, Timmy's obviously our main man holding the fort down low. Noc should be able to help out on the perimeter well enough and Kidd, though he has without question lost a step or two, should be able to hold his own against most large guards in the league.

This may have come too late but I might as well have done it. This is a playoff team.

EDIT: CJ Miles is the lone exception to the bolded statement.

For whatever that's worth.
Basically.

 

[cpawfan]

Sac has no one that can stop Duncan and a crappy PG in Jack. There is not a single person I would trust to take a shot in a close game on the Kings.

The Warriors are significantly flawed, but they have Duncan and are going against a team that can't punish their weaknesses

 

[J_Ray]

Sac has no one that can stop Duncan and a crappy PG in Jack. There is not a single person I would trust to take a shot in a close game on the Kings.

The Warriors are significantly flawed, but they have Duncan and are going against a team that can't punish their weaknesses

I have 4, maybe 5 bodies I can throw at Duncan while he has no one off the bench to relieve Duncan. Duncan is no spring chicken anymore, so he'll eventually get worn down playing a 7 game series. Then when he goes out, do you really think DeAndre Jordan or Joey Dorsey are ready to become the only legit big when they come in for Duncan? Dorsey is only 6'8", while DeAndre Jordan can only dunk, Al Harrington is other option @ C, but will he be able to guard Bogut or Bosh? Jack and Louis Williams are my PG's, just looking @ 1 PG isn't fair in this case because it's more a combo of 2 guys I'm using. At the end of the games I'll go with the guy that has played better during the game. Jack is also a big PG, that won't give up a strength advantage to Kidd while Louis Williams is much faster than Kidd these days also.

I trust Chris Bosh in taking a shot in a close game, especially with Hedo Turkoglu on him. Bosh is good at creating and can always dish it to an open man if people help off. Then you say I wouldn't be able to take advantage of him, Bosh being covered by Hedo, why would I not be able to exploit that? Bosh has been a top scorer in the league for the last 3 years now, I'm sure he'll be able to do his thing. He also doesn't really have that great of a defensive group with quite a few slow-footed and aging players, my offense is made for cutting and playing off the bigs.

 

[cpawfan]

I have 4, maybe 5 bodies I can throw at Duncan while he has no one off the bench to relieve Duncan. Duncan is no spring chicken anymore, so he'll eventually get worn down playing a 7 game series. Then when he goes out, do you really think DeAndre Jordan or Joey Dorsey are ready to become the only legit big when they come in for Duncan? Dorsey is only 6'8", while DeAndre Jordan can only dunk, Al Harrington is other option @ C, but will he be able to guard Bogut or Bosh? Jack and Louis Williams are my PG's, just looking @ 1 PG isn't fair in this case because it's more a combo of 2 guys I'm using. At the end of the games I'll go with the guy that has played better during the game. Jack is also a big PG, that won't give up a strength advantage to Kidd while Louis Williams is much faster than Kidd these days also.

I trust Chris Bosh in taking a shot in a close game, especially with Hedo Turkoglu on him. Bosh is good at creating and can always dish it to an open man if people help off. Then you say I wouldn't be able to take advantage of him, Bosh being covered by Hedo, why would I not be able to exploit that? Bosh has been a top scorer in the league for the last 3 years now, I'm sure he'll be able to do his thing. He also doesn't really have that great of a defensive group with quite a few slow-footed and aging players, my offense is made for cutting and playing off the bigs.

Well no worries about Duncan making it through 7 games as this series would be over in 4. He can and does play major minutes in the playoffs. The Kings are built around their PF/C combo and unfortunately they are going up against Duncan.

Jack is crap no matter which way you attempt to slice it and Louis Williams doesn't really factor in as far as I'm concerned. He is some decent bench scoring which you desperately need but not anyone that can run a team. Your backcourt is just too much suck to overcome Timmy.

Bosh is extremely overrated and mentally weak. Duncan will guard him and eliminate him from being a serious threat. Hell, Nocioni could spend significant time guarding Bosh and forcing him into making mistakes. Because your offense has to position Bogut at the high post, Hedo can force him into shooting jump shots.

Yes, neither Dorsey nor Jordan should see the court, but even if they do you'll have trouble exploiting them. Dorsey would hit Bosh once and Bosh would start shooting fade-aways.

 

[GMJ]

Well no worries about Duncan making it through 7 games as this series would be over in 4.

LOL goddamn that is cold blooded, gangta shit from the cpaw.

edit:You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cpawfan again.

 

[huevonkiller]

Why is Bosh mentally weak again? I'm not sure about that cpaw. Being a finesse big man is different than having issues with intangibles, and I don't know many people that overrate him.

I'd still take the Warriors though.

 

[Celtic Fan]

This "Bosh is extremely overrated and mentally weak." is completely false.

Bosh is the guy who steps up and takes the big shots for the Raptors, over and over again and delivers more often than not.
I don't see where you get mentally weak from.

 

[cpawfan]

This "Bosh is extremely overrated and mentally weak." is completely false.

Bosh is the guy who steps up and takes the big shots for the Raptors, over and over again and delivers more often than not.
I don't see where you get mentally weak from.

Extremely overrated is completely true

Jason Collins owned Chris Bosh in the playoffs by taking away his favorite spots and generally frustrating him the entire game. That is mental weakness and that isn't coming up in the clutch.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Jason Collins also is/was one of the best defensive big men in the leagues, who plays a cerebral game.

 

[cpawfan]

Jason Collins also is/was one of the best defensive big men in the leagues, who plays a cerebral game.

My impression is that most people strongly disagree with that statement, so I didn't bother to include that. I know that there are people on this site that are convinced Jason Collins is the worst NBA player they have ever seen.

 

[J_Ray]

Jack is crap no matter which way you attempt to slice it and Louis Williams doesn't really factor in as far as I'm concerned. He is some decent bench scoring which you desperately need but not anyone that can run a team. Your backcourt is just too much suck to overcome Timmy.

Bosh is extremely overrated and mentally weak. Duncan will guard him and eliminate him from being a serious threat. Hell, Nocioni could spend significant time guarding Bosh and forcing him into making mistakes. Because your offense has to position Bogut at the high post, Hedo can force him into shooting jump shots.

Yes, neither Dorsey nor Jordan should see the court, but even if they do you'll have trouble exploiting them. Dorsey would hit Bosh once and Bosh would start shooting fade-aways.

Why does Louis Williams not factor in that much? He'll be playing as much if not more than Jack through the first 3 qtrs, then in the 4th I'll go with the guy that's playing better. It's not like I'm depending on my PG position consistently, they're pretty much there to initiate the offense, then play off the bigs, while they're also capable of getting 10/4 every night in 20+ minutes a game. Salmons and Marvin Williams are both capable of getting at least 15 every game, especially with slower defensive players on them. John Salmons showed his scoring ability this year when Kevin Martin was out for the Kings, and still put up good numbers in the 25-28 minutes he got every night on the Kings. I have a team effort, so it's not like if you shut down one guy, my team is done. Bosh would also tear up Duncan if he had him covering him. Duncan is a very slow-footed defender, while Bosh would be able to blow by him from the high post. It would also take Duncan out of the post, taking away their one dominant rebounder and shotblocker, making them have no one in the post. It would also put a smaller defender on Bogut, who would be able to exploit that even better than Bosh IMO. If the offense is being ran through the post, I'm pretty sure there are going plays along with the offense to exploit mis-matches to post them up. Every team in the NBA have plays to go along with their offense, so it's not like Bogut would be shut down. Bogut is a good passer also, so it's not like he'd settle for a jumper over a cutting Marvin Williams.

Also if Dorsey pops Bosh, Bosh shoots 84% from the charity stripe and he still gets superstar calls. Bosh also played the Magic and averaged 24 PPG against them, and I'm betting it was Hedo and Shard covering him, similar small team to his.

 

[cpawfan]

Bosh would also tear up Duncan if he had him covering him. Duncan is a very slow-footed defender, while Bosh would be able to blow by him from the high post.

That is a nice dream world but not close to the truth

 

[huevonkiller]

Extremely overrated is completely true

Jason Collins owned Chris Bosh in the playoffs by taking away his favorite spots and generally frustrating him the entire game. That is mental weakness and that isn't coming up in the clutch.

So you've determined this after just one playoff series (his first one as a 23 year old too)? And he did just fine last year, it is clearly an exaggeration on your part.

 

[cpawfan]

So you've determined this after just one playoff series (his first one as a 23 year old too)? And he did just fine last year, it is clearly an exaggeration on your part.

Hey way to take things out of context

I neither determined it just because of that playoff series nor saw any significant improvement in his mental strength last season.

Yes, in the most recent playoffs, Bosh put up some pretty numbers, but his team still lost 4-1 in the first round

 

[huevonkiller]

Hey way to take things out of context

I neither determined it just because of that playoff series nor saw any significant improvement in his mental strength last season.

Yes, in the most recent playoffs, Bosh put up some pretty numbers, but his team still lost 4-1 in the first round

What context should I put it in? It seems you've labeled him as "mentally weak" because of a single playoff series.

If not then please correct me.

 

[cpawfan]

What context should I put it in? It seems you've labeled him as "mentally weak" because of a single playoff series.

If not then please correct me.

I just corrected you in the post you quoted

I neither determined it just because of that playoff series nor saw any significant improvement in his mental strength last season.

I gave a single concrete example that I was sure most people had seen for the sake of simplicity

 

[huevonkiller]

I just corrected you in the post you quoted



I gave a single concrete example that I was sure most people had seen for the sake of simplicity

I thought you were going to add something else, but apparently this isn't the case.

Oh yes wow, Bosh really let those 41-41 Raptors down last year.

 

[cpawfan]

Oh yes wow, Bosh really let those 41-41 Raptors down last year.

Thank you for framing why all of the pretty stats he put up in that playoff series weren't worth bringing up.

Being mentally weak doesn't stop players from putting up pretty numbers. Marbury use to put up impressive numbers

 

[huevonkiller]

Thank you for framing why all of the pretty stats he put up in that playoff series weren't worth bringing up.

Being mentally weak doesn't stop players from putting up pretty numbers. Marbury use to put up impressive numbers

And how was he mentally weak in that series?

 

[cpawfan]

And how was he mentally weak in that series?

Where was he put in situations that called for clutch play in that series?

 

[huevonkiller]

Where was he put in situations that called for clutch play in that series?

How have you proved he's mentally weak?

Excuse me if a six game sample size, probably outside his prime, doesn't sway me.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

My impression is that most people strongly disagree with that statement, so I didn't bother to include that. I know that there are people on this site that are convinced Jason Collins is the worst NBA player they have ever seen.

Is that a red herring?

People hate on Collins because of his lack of offensive skills, fundamentals, and all around offensive game. Defense is one thing that you can't hate on Collins for.

 

[cpawfan]

How have you proved he's mentally weak?

You can stop putting words into my mouth now. I didn't say I was going to attempt to prove he is mentally weak.

In 2004, would you have asked why is Marbury mentally weak or in 2003 about TMac?

Excuse me if a six game sample size, probably outside his prime, doesn't sway me.

What in the fuck does his prime have to do with anything? He isn't in it now and he won't be in it during the 2008-2009 season.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

You can stop putting words into my mouth now. I didn't say I was going to attempt to prove he is mentally weak.

You called him mentally weak.

He asked how.

It's natural progression of discussion for you to attempt to prove it, or else it's just a baseless claim.

 

[cpawfan]

Is that a red herring?

People hate on Collins because of his lack of offensive skills, fundamentals, and all around offensive game. Defense is one thing that you can't hate on Collins for.

No, I know that there are people on this site and that participated in the drafts that don't believe he is/was a good defender.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

No, I know that there are people on this site and that participated in the drafts that don't believe he is/was a good defender.

Do you think he's a good defender?

I don't see why you would say Bosh is mentally weak because Collins took him out of his game, if you think Collins is a good defender.

What do other people's opinions have to do with your own?

 

[cpawfan]

You called him mentally weak.

He asked how.

It's natural progression of discussion for you to attempt to prove it, or else it's just a baseless claim.

Did I reply to the post where he asked how?

 

[Kid Chocolate]

Did I reply to the post where he asked how?

Jason Collins owned Chris Bosh in the playoffs by taking away his favorite spots and generally frustrating him the entire game. That is mental weakness and that isn't coming up in the clutch.

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