Sacramento/Seattle Kings Update (2 Viewers)

[mobes23]

One more thing about Stern, if you think he did it because he's in love with small market teams and concerned about fans, then you're deluding yourself. It was all about the arena message. Fund the arena, keep the team. Don't fund the arena, lose the team.

Does anyone believe that Stern has a big heart about that sort of thing? He sure doesn't come across that way to me.

 

[maxiep]

HCP, can you give your list of nice arenas and shit arenas? Also, what makes them nice or shitty? What do the players care about? You're likely the only one of us who has seen every single one.

 

[mobes23]

Owners also like shiny toys and they control the movement of the franchise.

I thought that was true until yesterday...I still can't believe the owners caused one of their own to sell their franchise at a $100 million discount. Guessing the other owners must pretty much hate the Maloofs because I don't think they're THAT concerned about fans in cities outside their own.

 

[maxiep]

Did you see from who though?

Is that the team plane?

 

[maxiep]

They did what it took to get it done. Seattle did not the first time around.

Sure, Clay Bennett fucked them, but it took a lot of incompetence on the part of Seattle's governemnt as well.

It was really Schultz that stuck it to Seattle. He knew what Bennett was going to do with the team. He was just pissed that he was told if he bought the team and played savior, he'd get the funding to build a new arena just like the Hawks and the Ms. Instead, he got fucked. Greg Nickels took pains to minimize the Supes' impact in the life of Seattleites. Schultz sold the team to Bennett out of spite. I don't blame him.

 

[maxiep]

The funny thing is the next best franchises for Seattle to steal are the Bobcats and the Grizzlies. Unfortunately, the Bobcats are becoming the Hornets again so that should keep them stable and interesting for a few years and the Grizzlies are actually good so they're not going anywhere.

It'll be a good 10 years before the Seattle Supersonics exist.

Don't you mean the Seattle Trail Blazers?

 

[mobes23]

Don't you mean the Seattle Trail Blazers?

It IS interesting how Presidente's 10 year theory matches up well with the Blazers Rose Garden commitments winding down. I hope you're wrong.

 

[maxiep]

It IS interesting how Presidente's 10 year theory matches up well with the Blazers Rose Garden commitments winding down. I hope you're wrong.

Allen/Patton/Kolde are all Seattleites. Allen could sell to Hansen and Ballmer and put us in the position of building a $400MM arena or losing the team. Do you think something like that would pass a vote in Oregon? I think the view of Portland is that having one team in the PNW is good enough and we'll accept it without complaint. We support both the Seahawks and the Mariners (although I personally hate both teams). If the Blazers left PDX, I'd probably just stop watching the NBA.

 

[mobes23]

Allen/Patton/Kolde are all Seattleites. Allen could sell to Hansen and Ballmer and put us in the position of building a $400MM arena or losing the team. Do you think something like that would pass a vote in Oregon? I think the view of Portland is that having one team in the PNW is good enough and we'll accept it without complaint. We support both the Seahawks and the Mariners (although I personally hate both teams). If the Blazers left PDX, I'd probably just stop watching the NBA.

If Seattle does not have a team in 10 years, I'd say your theory is probably more likely than not. PA can engineer the result he wants by ramping up/down both the expense of the new arena and his own contribution. Guessing your $400MM estimate could be on the low side if he truly wants the team in Seattle.

The only X factor is how good the team is at that point. If the Blazers are good, then I think local support could overcome it. On the other hand, the likelihood goes way up if the team sucks around that time.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

If Seattle does not have a team in 10 years, I'd say your theory is probably more likely than not. PA can engineer the result he wants by ramping up/down both the expense of the new arena and his own contribution. Guessing your $400MM estimate could be on the low side if he truly wants the team in Seattle.

The only X factor is how good the team is at that point. If the Blazers are good, then I think local support could overcome it. On the other hand, the likelihood goes way up if the team sucks around that time.

Can't assume that Paul Allen is around in 10 years either. His sister may have sold the team by then.

 

[mobes23]

Can't assume that Paul Allen is around in 10 years either. His sister may have sold the team by then.

Lol -- no doubt, there are a ton of things that could change in the next 10 years. Just the fact that PA has wrestled with cancer twice now is proof of that.

What a bummer if Jodi took control...

 

[maxiep]

I hate to say it, but I'm simply going to enjoy the Portland Trail Blazers while I can and hope my suppositions are proved incorrect.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Easiest way to keep the Blazers in Portland forever -

1. Build the new convention center hotel on the waterfront where the old Red Lion used to sit.
2. Include a sky bridge from the new hotel to the MC.
3. Turn the MC into a casino.

 

[julius]

I hate to say it, but I'm simply going to enjoy the Portland Trail Blazers while I can and hope my suppositions are proved incorrect.

I'd hate to be this paranoid

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I don't think I've ever bad mouthed Sacramento or its fans -- that's never been my point and I don't feel that way. You on the other hand have been acting like Seattle and its fans got what they deserved and you're misguided about that. At most, I've pointed to Sacramento shortcomings as you've blasted Seattle, purely to make the point that your views about Seattle are incorrect.

The only thing I've said Blazer fans should be in agreement about is that David Stern is an ass. Should we set up a poll on that?

Finally, I haven't gone to your focus on the impact of small market teams, but let's play it out. No doubt yesterday was a victory for small market Sacramento, but what does it mean in terms of the big picture of being a small market team? Stern has sent the message that (a) refusal by a city to fund the entire amount of an arena is grounds for relocation (Seattle) and (b) if you fund an arena for roughly $300 million of a $450 million arena, then you keep your team (Sacramento.) How does that look good to Milwaukee? The answer is that the Hansen group is a useful threat/tool to the owners in those cities, but I don't think the people of Milwaukee are relieved to know that if they pay Stern his blood money then they get to keep the team. It's pretty much blackmail and small market cities are the victims, not the beneficiaries.

It'll be interesting to see how the arena plays out in Sacramento, given the city is having budget problems (http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/08/5403258/sacramento-city-budget-deficit.html) More power to them if they pull it off as easily as they are portraying it, but I'll be surprised if they build it in the proposed location without big drama involved.

Well, since Seattle is trying to steal an NBA franchise from Sacramento here, they are in the wrong, just as OKC was in the wrong in taking the Sonics from Seattle. Like I said, its not about this city or that city, its the uprooting of an entire fanbase. Bottom line is that Seattle doesn't have a team, should not be able to take away an existing team away if there is support and local ownership. Sure, if some Seattle investors want to overpay for the Kings...go ahead, but I agree with the Board of Governors in that they shouldn't be moved. I don't think any team should be unless there are no owners in the area who want to keep the team in the area whatsoever.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Allen/Patton/Kolde are all Seattleites. Allen could sell to Hansen and Ballmer and put us in the position of building a $400MM arena or losing the team. Do you think something like that would pass a vote in Oregon? I think the view of Portland is that having one team in the PNW is good enough and we'll accept it without complaint. We support both the Seahawks and the Mariners (although I personally hate both teams). If the Blazers left PDX, I'd probably just stop watching the NBA.

I'd lead the charge to Seattle with pitchforks and torches and burn that city to the fucking ground. The thing is, if the Blazers are halfway good there will be fan support and Portland will theoretically stand up. But yeah, I wouldn't trust the local government with any favors.

This is essentially why I am against moving teams like chess pieces. Especially with loyal fanbases. For those that support moving the Kings to Seattle, you're simply advocating making the "rich, richer". Taking teams...like the Portland Trailblazers and simply just buying them because you have more money and moving them away and disappointing an entire city.

 

[mobes23]

Well, since Seattle is trying to steal an NBA franchise from Sacramento here, they are in the wrong, just as OKC was in the wrong in taking the Sonics from Seattle. Like I said, its not about this city or that city, its the uprooting of an entire fanbase. Bottom line is that Seattle doesn't have a team, should not be able to take away an existing team away if there is support and local ownership. Sure, if some Seattle investors want to overpay for the Kings...go ahead, but I agree with the Board of Governors in that they shouldn't be moved. I don't think any team should be unless there are no owners in the area who want to keep the team in the area whatsoever.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with that view. The only thing is that I don't think Seattle has any real alternative...if they want a team, they either have to take one from somewhere else or hope for expansion. Purely instinct, but I don't think expansion makes sense from a talent dilution standpoint and I wonder if the numbers make sense. Stern claims a lot of teams are losing money, so it seems like it would make sense to add more teams. Of course, it's never clear to me how much teams are really struggling. Stern always says they are before negotiating with the players and then makes everything seem rosy after the deal is done. One thing for sure, the whole thing is messy.

 

[maxiep]

I'd hate to be this paranoid

It can be a burden to have a brain sometimes. The other times, however, it's awesome.

 

[maxiep]

Well, since Seattle is trying to steal an NBA franchise from Sacramento here, they are in the wrong, just as OKC was in the wrong in taking the Sonics from Seattle. Like I said, its not about this city or that city, its the uprooting of an entire fanbase. Bottom line is that Seattle doesn't have a team, should not be able to take away an existing team away if there is support and local ownership. Sure, if some Seattle investors want to overpay for the Kings...go ahead, but I agree with the Board of Governors in that they shouldn't be moved. I don't think any team should be unless there are no owners in the area who want to keep the team in the area whatsoever.

I think of Seattle the same way I think of Baltimore. For years after the Colts were taken from them, they held the moral high ground. After they stole the Browns from Cleveland, they were shown to be hypocrites.

The difference is that the NFL does a better job planning expansion and mollifying their fan base than the NBA. Cleveland knew they were getting another team in short order.

 

[Stevenson]

Why would Paul Allen ever want to move the Blazers to Seattle? Its not as if he is adverse to traveling down here - he's all over the planet.

Also, he owns the arena and is the only show in town. The city loves the Blazers. So from a business point of view, it makes little sense.

And despite what you all apparently think, the guy is actually human. He gets how we love this team. Additionally, he is passionate about a few things, hoops being one of them.

And, if the NBA won't approve the move from Sac, which used to have a rabid fanbase but does not really have that now, no way they would approve a move from Portland. Franchise / city stability is important to the league, clearly.

Finally, given the latest Seattle news, you can bet they will get another team or an expansion team in the next five years.

Blazers ain't going nowhere.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I am personally not talking about Paul Allen moving the team. I am talking about whoever he or his sister sells to moving the team.

 

[santeesioux]

Does his sister have any kids?

 

[mobes23]

Does his sister have any kids?

From wikipedia:

Personal lifeShe is divorced, and has two sons, Duncan and Gardner.[1] She was known as Jody Patton while married.[1]

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Does his sister have any kids?

To get an idea of Paul Allen's vast wealth, consider the following scene at his sister's house two winters ago.
He came over, as he often does, to roughhouse with his two nephews, have dinner, watch TV and chat.
"He said: `What do you think about football?' " recalls his sister, Jody Allen Patton.
"Well, OK," she replied, thinking he was inquiring about buying season tickets. "I like football. What about it?"
"Well," he said, "what do you think about buying the football team?"

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970611&slug=2544107

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I'd lead the charge to Seattle with pitchforks and torches and burn that city to the fucking ground. The thing is, if the Blazers are halfway good there will be fan support and Portland will theoretically stand up. But yeah, I wouldn't trust the local government with any favors.

This is essentially why I am against moving teams like chess pieces. Especially with loyal fanbases. For those that support moving the Kings to Seattle, you're simply advocating making the "rich, richer". Taking teams...like the Portland Trailblazers and simply just buying them because you have more money and moving them away and disappointing an entire city.

Goddamn right, and repped.

 

[maxiep]

Why would Paul Allen ever want to move the Blazers to Seattle? Its not as if he is adverse to traveling down here - he's all over the planet.

Also, he owns the arena and is the only show in town. The city loves the Blazers. So from a business point of view, it makes little sense.

And despite what you all apparently think, the guy is actually human. He gets how we love this team. Additionally, he is passionate about a few things, hoops being one of them.

And, if the NBA won't approve the move from Sac, which used to have a rabid fanbase but does not really have that now, no way they would approve a move from Portland. Franchise / city stability is important to the league, clearly.

Finally, given the latest Seattle news, you can bet they will get another team or an expansion team in the next five years.

Blazers ain't going nowhere.

I don't think Paul Allen is long for this world. Ten years, fifteen, then he's gone. His sister isn't interested in the team. There's no one not named Phil Knight that has any kind of money in this town. And advertising in Portland sucks ass. They can't even get naming rights for the Rose Garden. Filling the arena doesn't mean much. The television market means a lot. If they move to Seattle, you'll still get a TV deal down here, just like the Ms. And we've shown that we'll support a Seattle team. There aren't many Blazer fans in the Emerald City.

I'm glad you're more optimistic than am I. I really hope you're right and I'm wrong.

 

[jlprk]

In Seattle's case, Key Arena had been completed only 10 years before (and no, it was a simple refurbishment...it was a rebuild.)

Wrong.

It doesn't matter, given a long enough period of time all firms earn zero profit. The Heat should probably move if they want to maximize their earnings as well. Moving can be justified in many instances.

You are a sucker for those all-theory economics classes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS - Both sides have agreed to transfer ownership of the Kings from the Maloofs to the Ranadive group for $535 million, league source confirms.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The NBA forced the Maloofs to take significantly less money.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The NBA forced the Maloofs to take significantly less money.

If they kept the franchise in Sacramento, the Seattle group certainly could have bought it for more of they were so compelled.

hoop fam