Religion Sam Harris destroys Political Correctness on Islam

[Sinobas]

ISIL and jihadists are not practicing "radical Islam", they are simply practicing Islam.

 

[barfo]

So the other billion Muslims are doing it wrong?

barfo

 

[Sinobas]

So the other billion Muslims are doing it wrong?

barfo

It means that ISIL and Jihadis are in no way distorting Islam, but rather following the example of Muhammad and the teachings of the Koran and Hadith. Learn a little something before trying to retort with the standard lame-brained line.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It means that ISIL and Jihadis are in no way distorting Islam, but rather following the example of Muhammad and the teachings of the Koran and Hadith. Learn a little something before trying to retort with the standard lame-brained line.

That's like saying the Westboro Baptist idiots are real christians because they follow the bible more literally than all the other christians.

 

[Sinobas]

That's like saying the Westboro Baptist idiots are real christians because they follow the bible more literally than all the other christians.

They do follow the spirit of the Old Testament much more than most Christians, but the New Testament is a much softer theology and "over writes" the Old in most christian's minds, and that is inline with Christianity, but there is no such softening in Islam.

Also, it's a typical libtard deflection to bring up Westboro, their church has a couple dozen members, but there are hundreds of millions of Muslims following Islam literally.

What goes on in a regular Muslim school in the UK? Let's take a look. So peaceful and loving.

 

[MARIS61]

All religions are born from the minds of sociopaths.

Peace never enters into it.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

That's like saying the Westboro Baptist idiots are real christians because they follow the bible more literally than all the other christians.

Probably mostly true. I haven't read the whole thing cover to cover but modern Christians ignored large parts of the bible when I was dragged to church as a kid.

People practice religion like a lot of kids built model cars. They just start gluing shit together and ignore the instructions.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I need to speak with Trump asap. I just realized what we need to do to fix the whole thing. It is simple with modern technology and magic tricks.

Write an updated version or New Testament whatever you want to call it and have a guy that looks like Muhammed float down from the clouds and play something like Jesus.

New version...

Women equal
No fighting
Gays are awesome
Blah blah blah.

Bombing these people is like shoving a pill down your dog's throat. Barely works if at all.



You have to trick him by hiding it in cheese or butter.

Duh it is simple.

 

[Sinobas]

 

[MarAzul]

That's like saying the Westboro Baptist idiots are real christians because they follow the bible more literally than all the other christians.

No, your comparison is not actually a comparison. But I won't try to show you what I mean. I know you can read and when you have done enough, you will not be where you are.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

ISIL and jihadists are not practicing "radical Islam", they are simply practicing Islam.

They do follow the spirit of the Old Testament much more than most Christians, but the New Testament is a much softer theology and "over writes" the Old in most christian's minds, and that is inline with Christianity, but there is no such softening in Islam.

Also, it's a typical libtard deflection to bring up Westboro, their church has a couple dozen members, but there are hundreds of millions of Muslims following Islam literally.

What goes on in a regular Muslim school in the UK? Let's take a look. So peaceful and loving.

Wow.........just wow. We're supposed to be swayed by the opinion of a Jew about Muslims??? A Jew who, in essence, happens to also disdain Christianity??? The Old Testament ("overwritten" or not) is full of hate and violence towards non believers. Yet many Christian sects rely heavily on it as the basis for their beliefs. And preach hate towards others of a different faith. The more enlightened Christians don't. I suspect it's the same with Muslims. And I know more Christians who terrify me than Muslims. Harris, in his own way is supporting a Christian jihad. But I guess that's acceptable as long as you're a white American.

And as far as those kids in the video being physically punished, it looked pretty mild to me. It shouldn't happen but it certainly wasn't done in a violent way. It actually looked a lot less agro than a lot of western parents act towards their own kids. Obviously many folks who might be disturbed about those actions didn't attend Catholic schools growing up.....or public schools in the same era. Did the reporters ask the parents of that Muslim school what their expectations were? It's quite possible that those parents expect and encourage that kind of "discipline" from the teachers. It is a private school after all.

Also, it's apparently a rightard habit to verbally abuse those who disagree with their points of view, or who "don't get it". Some of us do read. A great deal. And opinions are like assholes (and Sam Harris). Everybody has one.....some of us are just a bit more reticent about expressing them, especially to those who will never agree or "get it" for any reason. Nor is it a moneymaker for us like it is for Ol' Sam. As someone recently pointed out in another thread, EVERYONE has an agenda....

 

[Sinobas]

Opinion of a jew? Who on earth are you talking about? Personally, I don't judge a person's words based on ethnicity or even beliefs, but rather on the the actual content.

It's a typical libtard thing to say that "christians terrify" you more than Muslims, but it's all bullshit. What do you think you're chances of survival would be walking into a church vs walking through the streets of a Syrian or Iraqi town as an American?

I highly doubt you have either read nor listened to Sam if you think he's supporting a "Christian jihad". If you have, that's only an indictment against your comprehension skills.

And maybe the sight of children being kicked doesn't bother you, but that wasn't even the main point, so that point seems to have totally gone over your head as well (which is no surprise based on the rest of your post).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sam Harris is just working his way through the religions. Wait till he gets to the Jedis. Technically they endorse destroying a space station the size of a small moon packed with millions of people. Not so cute and innocent NOW, huh nerds?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

While we're on the topic of "political correctness" can we point out that the most PC of all institutions is the military? "Collateral Damage" my ass! Let's just come out and say it - we killed civilians.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

While we're on the topic of "political correctness" can we point out that the most PC of all institutions is the military? "Collateral Damage" my ass! Let's just come out and say it - we killed civilians.

Good thing they had an 8 year break under Obama. Whew, caught their breath.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Wow, Trump is a life preserver. I knew that but didn't use that terminology.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

 

[Nikolokolus]

Sam Harris, mostly just believes that Islam shouldn't be sheltered from criticism (just like Christianity, or Judaism, or any other religion). he rightly points out that there is this strange thing with western "progressives" (a distinction I make from the term "liberals" which has been bastardized all to hell in this country) there seems to be this knee-jerk response to align themselves with any group that stands against what they see as "Western Imperialism." So in a weird twist you can have a hard-core 3rd wave feminist finding common cause with a Salafist Muslim by claiming that the burkha is somehow empowering for Muslim women, instead of being a symbol of true patriarchy and as anti-feminist as one can get.

The segment with Sam Harris on Bill Maher's show where Ben Affleck calls him a racist is pretty interesting to watch if you want to see some true moral confusion on the part of the so-called "progressive left."

All that said, Harris believes that the only way we're ever going to get out of this mess with the rise of illiberal Islamism, is to empower the moderates in the Islamic world; that some kind of reformation movement from within is probably the only thing that will work.

 

[jlprk]

All I hear here are Christians and Jews pretending to know anything about Mohammedism. They say that "good Muslims" are the Muslims who behave like our Judaeo-Christian culture, and "bad Muslims" (the ones to bomb) are Muslims who act like some strange, unknown Eastern religion which takes after Mohammed, but that none of us understand because none of us are Muslims. They assume that everyone in the world should use Europe's value system, or die. It's called imperialism.

 

[stampedehero]

While we're on the topic of "political correctness" can we point out that the most PC of all institutions is the military? "Collateral Damage" my ass! Let's just come out and say it - we killed civilians.

A dead Muslim mother and child is still a dead mother and child. If a Muslim air force residing in our country bombed our people; what would be our reaction?

 

[Nikolokolus]

All I hear here are Christians and Jews pretending to know anything about Mohammedism. They say that "good Muslims" are the Muslims who behave like our Judaeo-Christian culture, and "bad Muslims" (the ones to bomb) are Muslims who act like some strange, unknown Eastern religion which takes after Mohammed, but that none of us understand because none of us are Muslims. They assume that everyone in the world should use Europe's value system, or die. It's called imperialism.

Islam even 50 or 60 years ago wasn't this dominated by Salafism or Wahabbism. In a way it would be something like the Westboro types seizing control of the narrative and welding an enormous amount of influence on policy that was disproportionate to their membership; moderate Muslims are increasingly silenced in their own countries for fear of reprisals.

 

[jlprk]

Islam even 50 or 60 years ago wasn't this dominated by Salafism or Wahabbism. In a way it would be something like the Westboro types seizing control of the narrative and welding an enormous amount of influence on policy that was disproportionate to their membership; moderate Muslims are increasingly silenced in their own countries for fear of reprisals.

To cement control over the oil in Saudi Arabia, Western intelligence pushed those right-wing variants of the religion. Western intelligence can undo what they have done without war. They already have the Saudi educational system infiltrated.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Islam even 50 or 60 years ago wasn't this dominated by Salafism or Wahabbism. In a way it would be something like the Westboro types seizing control of the narrative and welding an enormous amount of influence on policy that was disproportionate to their membership; moderate Muslims are increasingly silenced in their own countries for fear of reprisals.

Wahhabism is about 200 years old...probably a better analogy (no one thinks they're Westboro-equivalent) would be if the Church of Latter Day Saints (a branch of Protestant Christianity founded in the last two centuries and held to by a not-insignificant number of adherents) said that they were the "real" Christians, and that any Catholic (Shi'a) or Protestant (Sunni) who didn't practice they way they did or believe exactly what LDS believed in all things religious should be put to death. And of course infidels and women (if you're not monotheistic --specifically in worship of the God of Mohammed--congratulations, you're an infidel) require armed jihad against them by any means necessary till their death or submission to the Wahhabi doctrine. OBTW, carrying the analogy forward, if those "all things religious" incorporated as civil law the ramblings of a scholar looking to make Christianity "pure" by focusing almost solely all of those parts of Leviticus that non-Christians generally bring up, destroying statues and "idolatrous demon palaces" like the Vatican and Notre Dame and razing the Capitol Dome in order to make it look more like a "true" LDS ediface.

jlprk, some of us (though not enough) know more about Islam than most Christians know about Christianity (and frankly, than many Muslims do). It's kind of a copout to quote idiots on the matter.

 

[jlprk]

jlprk, some of us (though not enough) know more about Islam than most Christians know about Christianity (and frankly, than many Muslims do). It's kind of a copout to quote idiots on the matter.

I'd rather hear from Muslim experts who are Muslims living in Muslim countries, than "Muslim experts" who are American Judeo-Christians. An example of the latter is defining "good Muslim" as a Muslim who follows the Judeo-Christian value system.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'd rather hear from Muslim experts who are Muslims living in Muslim countries, than "Muslim experts" who are American Judeo-Christians. An example of the latter is defining "good Muslim" as a Muslim who follows the Judeo-Christian value system.

If they think that, they're not "experts" now, are they?

 

[jlprk]

If they think that, they're not "experts" now, are they?

Well what's your expert definition of "good Muslim." We keep reading in the American news that the "real Muslim religion" believes in peace and love, not in war like those "bad Muslims" who deserve to be killed (and like Mohammed himself, who was a military general and not at all like Jesus). It's clearly Judeo-Christians projecting their beliefs onto the world, demanding that other religions share identical values to ours...which is called imperialism.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wahhabism is about 200 years old...probably a better analogy (no one thinks they're Westboro-equivalent) would be if the Church of Latter Day Saints (a branch of Protestant Christianity founded in the last two centuries and held to by a not-insignificant number of adherents) said that they were the "real" Christians, and that any Catholic (Shi'a) or Protestant (Sunni) who didn't practice they way they did or believe exactly what LDS believed in all things religious should be put to death. And of course infidels and women (if you're not monotheistic --specifically in worship of the God of Mohammed--congratulations, you're an infidel) require armed jihad against them by any means necessary till their death or submission to the Wahhabi doctrine. OBTW, carrying the analogy forward, if those "all things religious" incorporated as civil law the ramblings of a scholar looking to make Christianity "pure" by focusing almost solely all of those parts of Leviticus that non-Christians generally bring up, destroying statues and "idolatrous demon palaces" like the Vatican and Notre Dame and razing the Capitol Dome in order to make it look more like a "true" LDS ediface.

jlprk, some of us (though not enough) know more about Islam than most Christians know about Christianity (and frankly, than many Muslims do). It's kind of a copout to quote idiots on the matter.

Poor word choice on my part. I wasn't trying suggest Salafism and Wahabism are only 50 or so years old, and that they are "Westboror crazy," only that their sort of hardline version of Islam wasn't the dominant strain in most of the Islamic world as recently as the 1950s and 1960s.

I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but I do try to read a lot about the subject and educate myself. I'd appreciate it if you could drop the insults.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Nik, no insult was intended. in my line of work I've had many conversations about this, and especially about the "Westboro analogy", from practicing Christians to practicing Muslims. In my response about LDS it was not an attempt to pick apart what you said, but to explain a bit to the people who'll read this that bringing up Westboro isn't nearly mainstream enough to describe Wahhabbism/Salafism to "regular" or "moderate" Muslims.

The expert quip to jlprk wasn't directed at you. It was to the unnamed experts jlprk talks to who say that good Muslims are Judeo-Christian ones. I didn't take your post to be anything of the sort.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Nik, no insult was intended. in my line of work I've had many conversations about this, and especially about the "Westboro analogy", from practicing Christians to practicing Muslims. In my response about LDS it was not an attempt to pick apart what you said, but to explain a bit to the people who'll read this that bringing up Westboro isn't nearly mainstream enough to describe Wahhabbism/Salafism to "regular" or "moderate" Muslims.

The expert quip to jlprk wasn't directed at you. It was to the unnamed experts jlprk talks to who say that good Muslims are Judeo-Christian ones. I didn't take your post to be anything of the sort.

My bad. I misread your post then. And I agree that the Westboro church wasn't the greatest straight-line analogy. FWIW, I'm practicing atheist, so I don't have that much skin in the game when it comes to religions. I think they're all a bit crazy in their own way. Islam just seems to be the one struggling the most with modernity at the moment. Hopefully these spasms of violence give way to an Islamic version of the Enlightenment.