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So you JUST ADMITTED that it was for the purposes of SOLICITING SEX. Which, in most locals, is ILLEGAL. Money doesn't have to change hands in order for that to apply.

Remember....the basis of this argument is: OBEY THE LAW. You run a far less risk of not going to prison, or having the police arrest you or confiscate your things, if you simply OBEY THE LAW. And soliciting sex in a public bathroom is AGAINST THE LAW.

You just admitted that you have no problem with laws that would put you into jail for not hurting anyone. Okay, as long as we got that straight. When will you report?

Of course, it's legal for heterosexuals to ask ("solicit" as you call it) each other for sex. But you want it illegal for yourself.
 
You just admitted that you have no problem with laws that would put you into jail for not hurting anyone. Okay, as long as we got that straight. When will you report?

Of course, it's legal for heterosexuals to ask ("solicit" as you call it) each other for sex. But you want it illegal for yourself.



I don't AGREE with a lot of the laws that are out there. I don't believe that owning a Suppressor is hurting anyone, nor that I should have to seek the Federal Government's permission for it. Same with Short Barreled Rifles.

I don't agree with 20 MPH speed limits in school zones either.

But whether or not I agree with these things does not change the fact that they are ILLEGAL. I wouldn't speed in a school zone for risk of a massive fine. And I wouldn't solicit sex in a public restroom for the same reason I wouldn't illegally purchase or make my own Suppressor, or modify my AK-47 to a barrel length of less than 16".

Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with whether or not I FEEL they're right or wrong: THEY ARE ILLEGAL. Don't commit ILLEGAL ACTS.

Of course, it's legal for heterosexuals to ask ("solicit" as you call it) each other for sex.

NO it fucking isn't. I mean Jesus....do you also deny that the sky is blue? That grass is green? Do you deny that paper is white too?

That is the logic of your argument. Go on to Craigslist and see people blatantly using code words to solicit sex from other people. They use code words because IT'S ILLEGAL.

Fucking seriously! Common sense man!
 
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So you JUST ADMITTED that it was for the purposes of SOLICITING SEX. Which, in most locals, is ILLEGAL. Money doesn't have to change hands in order for that to apply.

Remember....the basis of this argument is: OBEY THE LAW. You run a far less risk of not going to prison, or having the police arrest you or confiscate your things, if you simply OBEY THE LAW. And soliciting sex in a public bathroom is AGAINST THE LAW.

You keep acting as if my examples were all about soliciting in public restrooms. To repeat the 3 from that article (you dismissed the first by saying you don't believe it):

Georgia's Attorney General rescinded a job offer to a lesbian lawyer because she was marrying a woman, and then successfully used the state's sodomy law to justify the discrimination...in 1998, a gay couple in Houston was arrested under Texas' anti-sodomy law for allegedly having sex ...a 2008 case in North Carolina in which two men were arrested by the Raleigh Police Department for having consensual sex...
 
You keep acting as if my examples were all about soliciting in public restrooms. To repeat the 3 from that article (you dismissed the first by saying you don't believe it):

in 1998, a gay couple in Houston was arrested under Texas' anti-sodomy law for allegedly having sex ...a 2008 case in North Carolina in which two men were arrested by the Raleigh Police Department for having consensual sex

They were busted for SOLICITING SEX. Fuck, even I can figure that out! Two guys just happen to be arrested, out of ALL the gay people in the state? Come on now! It had nothing to do with whether or not they were gay. Go study the cases in detail, and use an UNBIASED source besides Slate.

Nevermind the fact that one of those cases was a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE arrest!
 
They were busted for SOLICITING SEX. Fuck, even I can figure that out! Two guys just happen to be arrested, out of ALL the gay people in the state? Come on now! It had nothing to do with whether or not they were gay. Go study the cases in detail, and use an UNBIASED source besides Slate.

Nevermind the fact that one of those cases was a DOMESTIC VIOLENCE arrest!

You keep saying that, but the incident you're thinking of was in a different state from the incident I'm listing. I excluded yours from my list.

You don't want to break the law. So if you ever live in places where it's illegal to ask for sex, you'll be happy to live in chastity for the rest of your life. You are truly an upstanding martyr. The crappy legal system should give you a medal. You will be rewarded in Heaven. Well, maybe not there, but you will hold a high rank after you die for your Earthly sacrifice.
 
You keep saying that, but the incident you're thinking of was in a different state from the incident I'm listing. I excluded yours from my list.

You don't want to break the law. So if you ever live in places where it's illegal to ask for sex, you'll be happy to live in chastity for the rest of your life. You are truly an upstanding martyr. The crappy legal system should give you a medal. You will be rewarded in Heaven. Well, maybe not there, but you will hold a high rank after you die for your Earthly sacrifice.

You don't want to break the law.

Correct! Now you're getting it!

So if you ever live in places where it's illegal to ask for sex, you'll be happy to live in chastity for the rest of your life.

I wouldn't know. I don't make it a habit of soliciting sex from strangers in random or public places. But if that's your thing, then have fun. More power to you.

You will be rewarded in Heaven. Well, maybe not there, but you will hold a high rank after you die for your Earthly sacrifice.

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Correct! Now you're getting it! I wouldn't know. I don't make it a habit of soliciting sex from strangers in random or public places. But if that's your thing, then have fun. More power to you.

Again, my 3 examples. You'll get it someday.

Georgia's Attorney General rescinded a job offer to a lesbian lawyer because she was marrying a woman, and then successfully used the state's sodomy law to justify the discrimination...in 1998, a gay couple in Houston was arrested under Texas' anti-sodomy law for allegedly having sex ...a 2008 case in North Carolina in which two men were arrested by the Raleigh Police Department for having consensual sex...

You keep saying that they involve soliciting, and now you say they all involve strangers. Have you looked up each incident? Because they didn't.
 
Again, my 3 examples. You'll get it someday.



You keep saying that they involve soliciting, and now you say they all involve strangers. Have you looked up each incident? Because they didn't.

So hold on a minute.....

You think these guys were just having sex somewhere in private.....and the police used magical powers to seek them out and arrest them for being gay?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Please tell me you're smarter than that.
 
They were busted for SOLICITING SEX. Fuck, even I can figure that out!
Wrong, but don't let that deter you. We live in a post-fact world now.

Lawrence vs. Texas on Wikipedia:

On September 17, 1998, John Lawrence,[10][11] a gay 55-year-old medical technologist, was hosting two gay acquaintances, Tyron Garner,[12] age 31, and Robert Eubanks,[13] 40, at his apartment on the outskirts of Houston. Lawrence and Eubanks had been friends for more than 20 years. Garner and Eubanks had a tempestuous on-again off-again romantic relationship since 1990. Lacking transportation home, the couple were preparing to spend the night. Eubanks, who had been drinking heavily, left to purchase a soda from a nearby vending machine. Apparently outraged that Lawrence had been flirting with Garner, he called police and reported "a black male going crazy with a gun" at Lawrence's apartment.[14]

Four Harris County sheriff's deputies responded within minutes and Eubanks pointed them to the apartment. They entered the unlocked apartment toward 11 p.m. with their weapons drawn. In accordance with police procedures, the first to arrive, Joseph Quinn, took the lead both in approaching the scene and later in determining what charges to bring. He later reported seeing Lawrence and Garner having anal sex in the bedroom. A second officer reported seeing them engaged in oral sex, and two others did not report seeing the pair having sex. Lawrence repeatedly challenged the police for entering his home. Quinn had discretionary authority to charge them for a variety of offenses and to determine whether to arrest them. When Quinn considered charging them with having sex in violation of state law, he had to get an Assistant District Attorney to check the statutes to be certain they covered sexual activity inside a residence. He was told that Texas's anti-sodomy statute, the "Homosexual Conduct" law, made it a Class C misdemeanor if someone "engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex".[15] The statute, Chapter 21, Sec. 21.06 of the Texas Penal Code, had been adopted in 1973 when the state revised its criminal code to end its proscription on heterosexual anal and oral intercourse.[16]

Quinn decided to arrest Lawrence and Garner and charge them with having "deviate sex". In the separate arrest reports he filed for each, he wrote that he had seen the arrestee "engaged in deviate sexual conduct namely, anal sex, with another man".[17] Lawrence and Garner were held in jail overnight. At a hearing the next day, they pleaded not guilty to a charge of "homosexual conduct". They were released toward midnight.[18] Eubanks pleaded no contest to charges of filing a false police report. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail but released early.[19]
 
So hold on a minute.....You think these guys were just having sex somewhere in private.....and the police used magical powers to seek them out and arrest them for being gay? Am I understanding this correctly? Please tell me you're smarter than that.

I've repeated the 3 incidents over and over. You finally got it. Congratulations! I don't how you thought otherwise, but now you see the sin of your law and order ways. The legal system hates sex and drugs (and men). It is the enemy of anyone who wants to expand our freedoms (except for the freedoms of rich people). It is at war with popular culture, and it has the guns.

And the shits stole 1/3 of my family's inheritance, so I live a much different retirement than I had planned.
 
Really? Your "proof" is a one page article written by some nobody professor, who doesn't even have cite-able sources? Really?
So... are you saying you believe that nobody innocent gets incarcerated? Or are you denying the specific number?

That was just one link. You've boasted about your researching skills in the past, I'm sure you can track down better. Or are you happier being ignorant?

("Nobody professor"! Yeah, what do PROFESSORS know! Bunch of libtards. I'll wait till I hear it verified on TALK RADIO!!!!!)
 
Wrong, but don't let that deter you. We live in a post-fact world now.

Lawrence vs. Texas on Wikipedia:

On September 17, 1998, John Lawrence,[10][11] a gay 55-year-old medical technologist, was hosting two gay acquaintances, Tyron Garner,[12] age 31, and Robert Eubanks,[13] 40, at his apartment on the outskirts of Houston. Lawrence and Eubanks had been friends for more than 20 years. Garner and Eubanks had a tempestuous on-again off-again romantic relationship since 1990. Lacking transportation home, the couple were preparing to spend the night. Eubanks, who had been drinking heavily, left to purchase a soda from a nearby vending machine. Apparently outraged that Lawrence had been flirting with Garner, he called police and reported "a black male going crazy with a gun" at Lawrence's apartment.[14]

Four Harris County sheriff's deputies responded within minutes and Eubanks pointed them to the apartment. They entered the unlocked apartment toward 11 p.m. with their weapons drawn. In accordance with police procedures, the first to arrive, Joseph Quinn, took the lead both in approaching the scene and later in determining what charges to bring. He later reported seeing Lawrence and Garner having anal sex in the bedroom. A second officer reported seeing them engaged in oral sex, and two others did not report seeing the pair having sex. Lawrence repeatedly challenged the police for entering his home. Quinn had discretionary authority to charge them for a variety of offenses and to determine whether to arrest them. When Quinn considered charging them with having sex in violation of state law, he had to get an Assistant District Attorney to check the statutes to be certain they covered sexual activity inside a residence. He was told that Texas's anti-sodomy statute, the "Homosexual Conduct" law, made it a Class C misdemeanor if someone "engages in deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex".[15] The statute, Chapter 21, Sec. 21.06 of the Texas Penal Code, had been adopted in 1973 when the state revised its criminal code to end its proscription on heterosexual anal and oral intercourse.[16]

Quinn decided to arrest Lawrence and Garner and charge them with having "deviate sex". In the separate arrest reports he filed for each, he wrote that he had seen the arrestee "engaged in deviate sexual conduct namely, anal sex, with another man".[17] Lawrence and Garner were held in jail overnight. At a hearing the next day, they pleaded not guilty to a charge of "homosexual conduct". They were released toward midnight.[18] Eubanks pleaded no contest to charges of filing a false police report. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail but released early.[19]

So an extreme case......ONE......where the police were called to the residence due to a domestic disturbance.

Is that all you have? And what happened to Lawrence and Garner? Charges dropped? It doesn't sound to me like the police knew what they were seeing: one reported anal sex, the other oral. It would take a decent lawyer about 5 minutes to tear this case apart.

I've repeated the 3 incidents over and over. You finally got it. Congratulations! I don't how you thought otherwise, but now you see the sin of your law and order ways. The legal system hates sex and drugs (and men). It is the enemy of anyone who wants to expand our freedoms (except for the freedoms of rich people). It is at war with popular culture, and it has the guns.

And the shits stole 1/3 of my family's inheritance, so I live a much different retirement than I had planned.

I see. It all makes sense now.

You have a personal grudge with the government over an inheritance. So, as a result, you nitpick and whine about everything that the government does.....oh, I'm sorry, I meant everything that a REPUBLICAN politician does......and you still vote for the same big government, corrupt assholes on the Left who you claim to hate so much.

Sin of law and order ways......what an utter load of bullshit. Having respect for the law has kept me out of jail and prison, when I can point to several personal instances where, if I were a person of lesser moral character, I'd most likely be pulling a lengthy prison sentence right now. I grew up in my childhood living in a slum with two parents addicted to drugs and alcohol. If anyone here could have gone down a pitiful path in life, it would be me.

My sister had a free-wheelin' lifestyle that developed into a $5,000/day heroine operation that eventually costed her both of her cars, custody of her son, loss of her apartment, and the loss of her job (as a well-to-do legal assistant, no less).

Yeah, some laws are just asinine and retarded. No argument there. But if you can't follow simple laws like the rest of us day in and day out, then you get no sympathy from me when that government you claim to hate so much comes to arrest you.

So... are you saying you believe that nobody innocent gets incarcerated? Or are you denying the specific number?

That was just one link. You've boasted about your researching skills in the past, I'm sure you can track down better. Or are you happier being ignorant?

("Nobody professor"! Yeah, what do PROFESSORS know! Bunch of libtards. I'll wait till I hear it verified on TALK RADIO!!!!!)

I've never said nobody innocent gets arrested. YOU said that in an attempt to further derail this thread and to add emotion into an argument about logic and reason.

You are attempting to justify not following laws by using vague sources of innocent people incarcerated as proof that we shouldn't follow them.

Fine. Okay.

By that same logic, a convenience store owner in the bad part of town shouldn't let black people inside, since there is a higher likelihood that he'll be robbed, rather than a store owner in an upper-class white neighborhood.

That's the logic of your reasoning. Just because a vague source tells you that innocent people have been incarcerated, does not entitle us to pick and choose what laws we want to follow. Just like a store owner cannot discriminate between who he allows inside of his store, based on an FBI crime report.
 
And since having gay sex hasn't been illegal at the Federal level in my lifetime, then I'm ignoring that example. In fact, when doing a quick google search, I can find no instance (google search was "who was the last person to be arrested for homosexuality?") in THIS country of anyone actually being arrested just for being gay in the last 40 years.

So an extreme case......ONE......where the police were called to the residence due to a domestic disturbance. Is that all you have?

Ignoring examples of evil seems to be your modus operandi.
 
This, from someone who just described his personal grudge about his sister exercising what should be her freedom to use drugs. And your grudge against anyone who doesn't agree with your rules, which you call law. I don't kill and imprison people over my grudge. You do.
 
Take your grudge against popular culture and my freedom, and stick it up your butt.
 
This, from someone who just described his personal grudge about his sister exercising what should be her freedom to use drugs.

LMFAO, wow! Holy shit, are you serious?

I have no grudge against my sister. She lost everything she had, and put her 5 year old son in danger. I don't have a grudge; she's suffered enough by her own hand.

Freedom to use drugs......wow. You know, I knew you were Liberal, but that is just too much. If you think operating a heroine den out of her apartment, putting her life, her fiance's life, her neighbor's lives, and putting an innocent child's life at risk is okay because it's her "freedom to do so" (and by the way: lawfully, NOBODY has the right to put an innocent child at risk)....then I honestly don't know what to say to you. I think I'm actually at a loss for words here.

Take your grudge against popular culture and my freedom, and stick it up your butt.

Oh? Okay. Take your justifying criminal activity for selfish means and go fuck yourself.
 
I see. It all makes sense now.

Oh, that's good.

You have a personal grudge with the government over an inheritance.

Huh? Clearly we have different definitions of "making sense"


So, as a result, you nitpick and whine about everything that the government does.....oh, I'm sorry, I meant everything that a REPUBLICAN politician does......and you still vote for the same big government, corrupt assholes on the Left who you claim to hate so much.

There was I thinking that I was motivated by issues rather than personalities. Oh the lies I've been telling myself!

Sin of law and order ways......what an utter load of bullshit. Having respect for the law has kept me out of jail and prison, when I can point to several personal instances where, if I were a person of lesser moral character, I'd most likely be pulling a lengthy prison sentence right now. I grew up in my childhood living in a slum with two parents addicted to drugs and alcohol. If anyone here could have gone down a pitiful path in life, it would be me.

Good job! If only you could have come out of it a happier person, but that might be asking too much.

My sister had a free-wheelin' lifestyle that developed into a $5,000/day heroine operation that eventually costed her both of her cars, custody of her son, loss of her apartment, and the loss of her job (as a well-to-do legal assistant, no less).

Yeah, some laws are just asinine and retarded. No argument there. But if you can't follow simple laws like the rest of us day in and day out, then you get no sympathy from me when that government you claim to hate so much comes to arrest you.

I thought it was obvious that my point was that there are plenty of people who have been arrested despite following the law.

Here - you like logic, here's a useful distinction. My point was that being law-abiding was not sufficient for not being arrested. Yes, you haven't been arrested. Me neither. But that doesn't prove that that's true for everyone. If that one professor's research is anywhere close to accurate (and I've no reason to believe it isn't) then thousands of innocent people are being arrested every year.

You misinterpret my point as saying that because innocent people get arrested then we shouldn't follow any laws. I don't think that at all. I think laws should be just, and fairly enforced, and we should follow them. I do happen to believe that we have a duty to resist laws that are flagrantly unjust but that just puts me in line with philosophers from Hobbes to Locke onwards.

You seem to think that being "law-abiding" is what keeps a person out of jail. Well, yes, that's part of it. (But it's certainly not sufficient, and it isn't even necessary if you're rich enough to get good lawyers.) And don't ignore: not encountering corrupt cops/incompetent defense lawyers/people with an interest in using your incarceration to their advantage.

By that same logic, a convenience store owner in the bad part of town shouldn't let black people inside, since there is a higher likelihood that he'll be robbed, rather than a store owner in an upper-class white neighborhood.

I really don't see how you got this from what I said.
 
So hold on a minute.....

You think these guys were just having sex somewhere in private.....and the police used magical powers to seek them out and arrest them for being gay?

Am I understanding this correctly?

Please tell me you're smarter than that.
Now you've read the case, you get it, right? The police entered on a fake complaint, and once there used a LAW ON THE BOOKS to arrest them for having "deviate sex". Nothing in the law about "in public" or "for money". Just the nature of the sex. In private. This could've happened to you. You just weren't that unlucky. But if it had, I'm sure you would've said "it's a fair cop! My fault for not following the law."
 
She lost everything she had, and put her 5 year old son in danger. I don't have a grudge; she's suffered enough by her own hand...If you think operating a heroine den out of her apartment, putting her life, her fiance's life, her neighbor's lives, and putting an innocent child's life at risk is okay because it's her "freedom to do so" (and by the way: lawfully, NOBODY has the right to put an innocent child at risk)....then I honestly don't know what to say to you. I think I'm actually at a loss for words here.

My sister had a free-wheelin' lifestyle that developed into a $5,000/day heroine operation that eventually costed her both of her cars, custody of her son, loss of her apartment, and the loss of her job (as a well-to-do legal assistant, no less).

Did she lose those things because the law took them when it busted her? How much of her losses were due to the illegality of drugs? As for your embellished "putting someone at risk"--I notice that you're not claiming that person was hurt.

Having respect for the law has kept me out of jail and prison, when I can point to several personal instances where, if I were a person of lesser moral character, I'd most likely be pulling a lengthy prison sentence right now. I grew up in my childhood living in a slum with two parents addicted to drugs and alcohol. If anyone here could have gone down a pitiful path in life, it would be me.

You are attempting to justify not following laws by using vague sources of innocent people incarcerated as proof that we shouldn't follow them.

You are attempting to justify evil laws by using vague sources of troubled people (yourself and your sister), as proof that we should follow them, because you think evil laws hold the moral high ground.

Oh? Okay. Take your justifying criminal activity for selfish means and go fuck yourself.

Take your justifying evil laws for selfish motives (you would have been busted if you hadn't followed them--well duh, that doesn't justify them).
 

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