OT School shooting in California

[calvin natt]

The 2nd amendment exists to protect people like you and me from government corruption. It's original intent was for citizenry to be able to bare arms against unruly governments using the military as a force against its people. Times have changed, but the foundation of the need is the same.

You take away everyone's right to bare arms, you leave everyone vulnerable to those who could give a shit about abiding the law. Sorry, rather have guns available to all and figure out how to answer the screening process and tracking, than I would to deny the common citizenry the right to own a gun.

We are a couple generations removed from a world war. How quickly we forget how fragile our economy and world is. I pray to God I never have to shoot someone, let alone point a gun at them out of fear. But I want that right if I feel threatened.
You try to take that way and you will see a civil war unfold.

 

[Lanny]

Id say we need to investigate the mindset that makes teens think this is okay over the access to such weapons. The weapons aren't going away, but mindset can be changed, turned from negative to positive. What is making the kids feel so negative, depressive? This should be the focal point of investigating, not the access of weapons.


General statement: Weapons have been around since the beginning of time. They will not go away. To focus on hand gun proliferation in this country would be a futile effort only resulting in complete chaos and civil war.

Focus on the psychology and sociology that is warping our youths' minds.

Weapons went away in Australia. They went away in the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. Why can't they go away here?

 

[calvin natt]

Weapons went away in Australia. They went away in the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. Why can't they go away here?

Gun obsession and cowards.

 

[Lanny]

And how do you propose to do that?

If a person wants a gun, the law will not stop him from getting one. And the fact that there are ways to acquire a firearm illegally as opposed to legally has been proven over and over partly because the people who sell them illegally don't care about the law because, well, they're criminals.

Other countries seem to have solved this problem.

 

[riverman]

What's your solution for illegal handguns?

It's law enforcements job to go get them and jail those who have them or sell them or make them
..we need a Judge Dread or Robocop force

 

[yankeesince59]

not my problem. Take care of your Fucking gun and don’t let people steal it. Simple. If it’s too hard then you don’t get a gun

Not your problem?...seriously?

 

[yankeesince59]

And if you’re so scared you are going to get killed in bed or raped at night go buy yourself a safe and stick next to your bed. Don’t they have fingerprint opening safes? I dunno but figure it out. No more “whoopsie my firearm is missing does little Jimmy have it”

lol...I understand your passion but you're not being at all realistic....lemme guess, you don't own a gun?

 

[yankeesince59]

Gun paranoia and liberals.

FIFY

 

[Lanny]

lol...I understand your passion but you're not being at all realistic....lemme guess, you don't own a gun?

I don't know whether his not owning a gun makes him any more or less qualified to comment on the subject.
However, I own a couple guns and agree with you all except for the part about him not owning a gun, which I'm sure you don't really care about. I just wonder why you would bring his gun ownership up which I couldn't care less about.

 

[yankeesince59]

Weapons went away in Australia. They went away in the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. Why can't they go away here?

And as I've been saying all along, those countries never had the problem to the degree that the US now has...because the problem has more to do with culture than with the number of guns. ..........California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country...how's that working out?

 

[yankeesince59]

I don't know whether his not owning a gun makes him any more or less qualified to comment on the subject.
However, I own a couple guns and agree with you all except for the part about him not owning a gun, which I'm sure you don't really care about. I just wonder why you would bring his gun ownership up which I couldn't care less about.

Excuse me?...I did not say he was less qualified to comment on the subject.

The reason I asked if he owned a gun is because people who own guns typically have different feelings about the problem than people who don't.

Much stiffer background checks are just fine...I'm all for it.

 

[andalusian]

And as I've been saying all along, those countries never had the problem to the degree that the US now has...because the problem has more to do with culture than with the number of guns. ..........California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country...how's that working out?

Gun laws in California are orders of magnitude more lax than they are in these countries - and it does not help that they are not lax in Nevada or other states and there are no borders between the states.

To be effective, gun laws need to go to the federal level. That's like saying Chicago has a gun problem despite the tough regulation there, but ignore the fact that Indiana is 90 minutes away with very lax gun laws.

The number of guns and how easy it is to access them is absolutely a big part of the problem. We have 6 times more guns per capita than Germany for example, about 15 times more guns per capita than England. Honestly, guns in this country are ridiculously easy to get and there are not enough consequences for mishandling them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

[yankeesince59]

Gun laws in California are orders of magnitude more lax than they are in these countries - and it does not help that they are not lax in Nevada or other states and there are no borders between the states.

To be effective, gun laws need to go to the federal level. That's like saying Chicago has a gun problem despite the tough regulation there, but ignore the fact that Indiana is 90 minutes away with very lax gun laws.

The number of guns and how easy it is to access them is absolutely a big part of the problem. We have 6 times more guns per capita than Germany for example, about 15 times more guns per capita than England. Honestly, guns in this country are ridiculously easy to get and there are not enough consequences for mishandling them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

Gotta agree about Federal laws instead of only state laws. And yeah, it's much too easy to circumvent the laws in one state by simply crossing the border, buying a weapon and then crossing the border once again.

Still believe we need to address the cultural element.

 

[Orion Bailey]

???
times have changed. I want armed civilians around to be able to take guys like this down. If we make guns illegal, there is no one to stop things like this.

Weapons went away in Australia. They went away in the United Kingdom, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. Why can't they go away here?

Other countries seem to have solved this problem.

because most of those countries don’t have the geographical size or population we do. we have way many more guns out there then they ever did. Germany isn't much bigger than new york.
hell of alot easier to tighten the reigns on a size of that nature vs our coast to coast massive size of a country.

 

[riverman]

And as I've been saying all along, those countries never had the problem to the degree that the US now has...because the problem has more to do with culture than with the number of guns. ..........California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country...how's that working out?

Those countries absolutely had issues that led to gun legistlation...the IRA was blowing up England in the 1960s...France has had many riots....Italy was the birthplace of facism…..the Spanish have had civil war and conflicts with the Basque people....it's not exclusive to the USA but we have more ammo and weapons available than any country on the planet per population. Belfast and London were bloodbaths of violence when I was growing up.

 

[yankeesince59]

Those countries absolutely had issues that led to gun legistlation...the IRA was blowing up England in the 1960s...France has had many riots....Italy was the birthplace of facism…..the Spanish have had civil war and conflicts with the Basque people....it's not exclusive to the USA but we have more ammo and weapons available than any country on the planet per population. Belfast and London were bloodbaths of violence when I was growing up.

That's not what I said.

What I said was. "those countries never had the problem to the degree that the US now has". And to keep things in context, what we are discussing is the current problem of our own people killing our own people for no good reason.

 

[Lanny]

And as I've been saying all along, those countries never had the problem to the degree that the US now has...because the problem has more to do with culture than with the number of guns. ..........California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country...how's that working out?

Two points:
1. Australia had a ton of weapons. Their country is similar to our wild West;
2. California can have all the strict gun laws in the world and they won't halt guns coming in from states with lenient gun laws like Alabama, Georgia, Texas and the other red states.

 

[calvin natt]

 

[yankeesince59]

Two points:
1. Australia had a ton of weapons. Their country is similar to our wild West;
2. California can have all the strict gun laws in the world and they won't halt guns coming in from states with lenient gun laws like Alabama, Georgia, Texas and the other red states.

I already addressed this earlier.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't think there is anyone out there saying insane people should have the right to have a gun, and I don't really believe that most people think that banning all guns would get rid of all guns and make us safer. I do believe there is a middle ground and most everyone wants everyone to be safe. Its simply a matter of rights of one to be able to defend oneself with the same weaponry that you can be assaulted with.
I don't believe there is one right answer but its going to take a combination of many things, most of all being time.

1. outlaw cop killers; bullets meant to pierce armor.
2. have an extremely stringent mental analysis on anyone looking to purchase a gun
3. create a foolproof method of tracking all arms bought and sold.
4. mandatory background checks on all ammunition purchases along with a permit to be able to do so.
5. mandatory annual reevaluation of all who have gun permits.

Above is just to be able to own a gun.
Below is to carry a concealed weapon

6. military level training of the use of guns in public and annual followup courses
7. annual first aid and trauma training classes


That's all just off the top of my head.

I'm on the fence as to banning assault rifles. I see no need for them and they should be for the military only. But then one just needs to watch the famous LA bank robbery that took place in the 90's with two men with armor and assault rifles cut down a bunch of cops walking down the middle of the street in broad daylight. bringing a knife to a gunfight is not wise. Bringing a handgun to an assault rifle fight is also not wise and so I want the guns available for the good to combat the bad.

 

[Lanny]

I don't think there is anyone out there saying insane people should have the right to have a gun, and I don't really believe that most people think that banning all guns would get rid of all guns and make us safer. I do believe there is a middle ground and most everyone wants everyone to be safe. Its simply a matter of rights of one to be able to defend oneself with the same weaponry that you can be assaulted with.
I don't believe there is one right answer but its going to take a combination of many things, most of all being time.

1. outlaw cop killers; bullets meant to pierce armor.
2. have an extremely stringent mental analysis on anyone looking to purchase a gun
3. create a foolproof method of tracking all arms bought and sold.
4. mandatory background checks on all ammunition purchases along with a permit to be able to do so.
5. mandatory annual reevaluation of all who have gun permits.

Above is just to be able to own a gun.
Below is to carry a concealed weapon

6. military level training of the use of guns in public and annual followup courses
7. annual first aid and trauma training classes


That's all just off the top of my head.

I'm on the fence as to banning assault rifles. I see no need for them and they should be for the military only. But then one just needs to watch the famous LA bank robbery that took place in the 90's with two men with armor and assault rifles cut down a bunch of cops walking down the middle of the street in broad daylight. bringing a knife to a gunfight is not wise. Bringing a handgun to an assault rifle fight is also not wise and so I want the guns available for the good to combat the bad.

I like it but no. 6 concerns me. What if someone is threatened by either an ex spouse or an estranged spouse, don't you allow the woman to own a weapon to protect herself. Now, would you still require her to devote her limited resources or time and even physical ability to passing a stringent level of training on the use of guns followed by first aid and trauma training? That seems a bit overboard to me.

 

[Lanny]

I already addressed this earlier.

Obviously not to my satisfaction.

Edit:
I don't see any mention of Australia in your response.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The shooter used a "ghost gun".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...alifornia-high-school-killing-2-used-n1089411

A teenager who opened fire at his California high school, killing two students, used a "ghost gun" built from firearm parts, the Los Angeles County sheriff said.

The weapon was a "kit gun" with no serial numbers, and another kit gun was found at the family's home, Sheriff Alex Villanueva told television station KABC.


It was unclear who assembled the gun. Weapons assembled at home, allowing owners to avoid registering them, are commonly called ghost guns.

Villanueva said the suspect’s father, who died in 2017, at one point had six firearms registered to him, but those guns had been lawfully removed from the home and were legally destroyed. He was then considered a "prohibited possessor" who could not legally own a gun, but Villanueva did not say why.

 

[Shaboid]

The shooter used a "ghost gun".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...alifornia-high-school-killing-2-used-n1089411

Outlaw gun parts!

 

[e_blazer]

The shooter used a "ghost gun".

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...alifornia-high-school-killing-2-used-n1089411

Wouldn't it be nice if that meant this: