Scientists find Active thermite residue in WTC dust

[PapaG]

I'm not saying it was done by Osama or Saddam or Bush or your mom. I'm just saying it is a relevant finding. Why did they clear all of that big GIANT crime scene case so quickly? The biggest crime in the history of the US and they cleared the evidence of it in a matter of days without investigating the evidence as to what happened, how and why.

It took literally many MONTHS to clear the "GIANT" crime scene. People I know helped work in it through the winter.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[uosean]

Almost immediately after 9/11 they sold the steel from the buildings and started shipping it off. Why would you sell off or recycle evidence? That's like reselling a gun confiscated from a crime scene.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2611059.stm

Look at the date on that article.

And this one is from JAN, 24th 2002. Just 4 months after 9/11 they had already shipped it to China and India to be recycled.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Jan/25776.htm

The clean up for the buildings obviously will take a long time but the investigation should have gone much much longer.

 

[OddEnormous]

How the heck did they get these pix so fast?

Um, they're the FBI?

And just because you had a shitty scanner and a dial up connection 8 years ago doesn't mean you were operating at the same pace as the federal government.

Look, I'm no Bush defender and I lean pretty left, but conspiracy theories are fucking wank.

All they are is a bunch of half though out questions that usually have pretty good answers only to be met with "Oh yeah, right... like that could happen"

 

[OddEnormous]

The clean up for the buildings obviously will take a long time but the investigation should have gone much much longer.

Is this based on your extensive crime scene experience?

 

[OddEnormous]

This is a forum for people to voice/express opinion not for experts to come together and make decisions.

Right. And you posted that statement and I responded. It's not me that needs a lesson in what message boarding is for.

Part of your claim that it was conspiracy was that the crime scene wasn't investigated long enough. If that is only your opinion it should not be included in your cold hard fact department on why this was a conspiracy should it?

IN other words... You have no idea if there was ample time to conduct a full crime investigation. You have no clue yet you treat it as evidence that there was a cover up...

This is exactly why conspiracy theories are wank of the highest order. You're just throwing things against the wall to see if they stick.

 

[barfo]

Almost immediately after 9/11 they sold the steel from the buildings and started shipping it off. Why would you sell off or recycle evidence? That's like reselling a gun confiscated from a crime scene.

Steel doesn't kill people. Planes kill people.

It's not like selling a gun from a crime scene. Guns are small and can easily be stored. Destroyed buildings are larger than guns. A better comparison would be to a building that had burned down due to arson. The investigators would poke through the ashes, and they might keep some samples, but the entire burned building would not be carted off to a police warehouse - it would be bulldozed and hauled to the landfill.

barfo

 

[Sinobas]

I mean "So what?" Who cares? The buildings fell. People died. People have died in tragedies for millions of years. They will continue to do so. Live your life, and let others live theirs (or not). Nothing you can do about anything other than in your little circle of influence. Quit trying to think you can, you'll live longer.

I'm not sure you grasp the implications of this finding. Thermite is a compound which melts steel, and is used in demolitions. As many critics of the official story have been saying all these years, the towers couldn't have fallen without the use of demolitions. Now, we have hard physical evidence that this is the case.

I care, and millions of Americans still care about what happened on 9-11. 9-11 was the catalyzing event for many of the bad changes in our country, such as the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act etc. And of course, what our federal government does affects us all.

If "no one cares", or too many people remain in ignorance then things will just continue to get worse. I just can't believe that someone, when presented with physical evidence that 9-11 was an inside job would say "who cares". Thanks for lowering my faith in humanity.

*edited*... "Duhhh...we're being waped in the ass and mudewed by cwiminals....but uhhh...who cares duhhhh"

 

[PapaG]

I'm not sure you grasp the implications of this finding. Thermite is a compound which melts steel, and is used in demolitions. As many critics of the official story have been saying all these years, the towers couldn't have fallen without the use of demolitions. Now, we have hard physical evidence that this is the case.

I care, and millions of Americans still care about what happened on 9-11. 9-11 was the catalyzing event for many of the bad changes in our country, such as the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act etc. And of course, what our federal government does affects us all.

If "no one cares", or too many people remain in ignorance then things will just continue to get worse. I just can't believe that someone, when presented with physical evidence that 9-11 was an inside job would say "who cares". Thanks for lowering my faith in humanity.

*edited*... "Duhhh...we're being waped in the ass and mudewed by cwiminals....but uhhh...who cares duhhhh"

Your posts in this thread are lowering my faith in humanity.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Yeth. It had thermites, and anth too. And the planeths were crop-dusterths thpraying pethdithides which got too cloeth.

barfo

Theriouthly?

 

[BlazerWookee]

Almost immediately after 9/11 they sold the steel from the buildings and started shipping it off. Why would you sell off or recycle evidence? That's like reselling a gun confiscated from a crime scene.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2611059.stm

Look at the date on that article.

And this one is from JAN, 24th 2002. Just 4 months after 9/11 they had already shipped it to China and India to be recycled.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/2002/Jan/25776.htm

The clean up for the buildings obviously will take a long time but the investigation should have gone much much longer.

Okay, next time we'll store it in your garage until you get a chance to look it over.

Jesus, dude, take your meds.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not sure you grasp the implications of this finding. Thermite is a compound which melts steel, and is used in demolitions. As many critics of the official story have been saying all these years, the towers couldn't have fallen without the use of demolitions. Now, we have hard physical evidence that this is the case.

I care, and millions of Americans still care about what happened on 9-11. 9-11 was the catalyzing event for many of the bad changes in our country, such as the war in Iraq, the Patriot Act etc. And of course, what our federal government does affects us all.

If "no one cares", or too many people remain in ignorance then things will just continue to get worse. I just can't believe that someone, when presented with physical evidence that 9-11 was an inside job would say "who cares". Thanks for lowering my faith in humanity.

*edited*... "Duhhh...we're being waped in the ass and mudewed by cwiminals....but uhhh...who cares duhhhh"

Three points.

Building 7 was heavily damaged from falling debris. See the photo below.

I remember the building owner told the fire dept. it was OK to bring the building down, as it was a danger to anyone trying to rescue people at the scene.

If they did use explosives to bring down building 7, there's your source of thermite.

 

[BlazerWookee]

I'm not sure you grasp the implications of this finding. Thermite is a compound which melts steel, and is used in demolitions. As many critics of the official story have been saying all these years, the towers couldn't have fallen without the use of demolitions. Now, we have hard physical evidence that this is the case.

You misspelled "Now, we have hard physical evidence that some people are just plain fucking nuts."

Just sayin'.

 

[Denny Crane]

Another photo of WTC 7

 

[hasoos]

Well to be honest, there isn't any proof that more folks weren't in on it and didn't put some thermite there to be ignited when the planes hit. There are a lot of ways thermite could have got there.

 

[Sinobas]

Having thermite in the plane would not have done any good, it has to be precisely placed. And yes, Larry Silverstein did say that he told the firemen to bring down the building. The problem with that is, it takes months to plan and execute a demolition. You don't just rig it up on the spot. Especially one that is already on fire.

It takes professional contractors to rig a building for demolition, firemen don't have that skill. To say that falling debris and fires caused WTC 7 to fall down symetrically at free fall speed is simply ridiculous.

So tell me, what is the logic in calling someone "crazy", that has hard physical evidence of a controlled demolition? Does that just prove your unwillingness to even consider a particular point of view?

It would be like, if someone found Kobe Bryant's DNA, blood and fingerprints at a crime scene, and you call the scientist that found them crazy because you're a big Kobe Bryant fan.

 

[Minstrel]

It takes professional contractors to rig a building for demolition, firemen don't have that skill. To say that falling debris and fires caused WTC 7 to fall down symetrically at free fall speed is simply ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous. From what I've read, you're overstating the significance of it "falling symmetrically at free fall speed." Buildings often collapse that way, even outside of controlled demolitions. The reason controlled demolitions are done is to ensure that it falls that way. It can fall that way naturally but, for obvious reasons, no one wants to leave it up to chance when they want to bring a building down.

So, the fact that it came down so "smoothly" is not de facto evidence that it was done in a carefully controlled manner.

 

[Denny Crane]

Having thermite in the plane would not have done any good, it has to be precisely placed. And yes, Larry Silverstein did say that he told the firemen to bring down the building. The problem with that is, it takes months to plan and execute a demolition. You don't just rig it up on the spot. Especially one that is already on fire.

It takes professional contractors to rig a building for demolition, firemen don't have that skill. To say that falling debris and fires caused WTC 7 to fall down symetrically at free fall speed is simply ridiculous.

So tell me, what is the logic in calling someone "crazy", that has hard physical evidence of a controlled demolition? Does that just prove your unwillingness to even consider a particular point of view?

It would be like, if someone found Kobe Bryant's DNA, blood and fingerprints at a crime scene, and you call the scientist that found them crazy because you're a big Kobe Bryant fan.

I'm willing to consider the alternatives for a minute. Then I realize the scale of the conspiracy is so enormous that it would be impossible to cover up. A handful of operatives in the Reagan White House couldn't keep Iran-Contra secret, how can one reasonably expect thousands or tens of thousands of people from coming forward with an actual smoking gun?

Then there's the nature of conspiracy theories in general. They throw a bunch of nonsense out there to catch the interest of the gullible, then as each and every point they make is debunked, the response is "well, that still doesn't prove ..." and move onto something else.

It's like the JFK assassination theories. It's believable that no single gunman could shoot the rifle so many times in so few seconds. Then you see Penn Gillette on his Bullshit! show with the same model rifle aim, fire, reload, aim, fire, reload, aim fire, reload with time to spare. And then he takes a bunch of untrained civilians out in the desert where they recreate the whole thing and all those people made head shots from the same height, angle, and distance 9 out of 10 times.

And FWIW, I don't think they'd need a controlled demolition of WTC 7 after it was damaged. They were happy to blow it up and let it fall where it may. What was it going to do, take out the WTC itself (it had already fallen).


[video=youtube;kcrF346sS_I]

[video=youtube;62gvoKyODu4]

 

[barfo]

Adolf Hitler

—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

That's a big lie. Hitler was actually an innkeeper's apprentice in Dusseldorf and was never the leader of Germany. It's shocking, but WWII never actually happened. The government wants you to believe it did. Mein Kampf was written in an office in Washington DC by a bureaucrat from Iowa. When you start questioning our role in WWII, you'll see there are too, too many inconsistencies for it to be true.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

That's a big lie. Hitler was actually an innkeeper's apprentice in Dusseldorf and was never the leader of Germany. It's shocking, but WWII never actually happened. The government wants you to believe it did. Mein Kampf was written in an office in Washington DC by a bureaucrat from Iowa. When you start questioning our role in WWII, you'll see there are too, too many inconsistencies for it to be true.

barfo

He was a house painter.

 

[barfo]

He was a house painter.

You believe that? That's what they want you to think. It's all part of the big lie.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You believe that? That's what they want you to think. It's all part of the big lie.

barfo

I want to become one of they. They probably get all kinds of hush money or a cushy govt. job with the best benefits.

 

[barfo]

I want to become one of they. They probably get all kinds of hush money or a cushy govt. job with the best benefits.

They don't like your kind.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

They don't like your kind.

barfo

They've dealt with my kind before.

 

[tlongII]

From your name it appears you go to the U of O. I respectfully advise you to spend more time in class.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If my choices are conspiracy or incompetence I'll vote for the latter every time.

 

[Sinobas]

It's not ridiculous. From what I've read, you're overstating the significance of it "falling symmetrically at free fall speed." Buildings often collapse that way, even outside of controlled demolitions.
The reason controlled demolitions are done is to ensure that it falls that way. It can fall that way naturally but, for obvious reasons, no one wants to leave it up to chance when they want to bring a building down.

So, the fact that it came down so "smoothly" is not de facto evidence that it was done in a carefully controlled manner.

Now you are making stuff up. Come on now. "The buildings would collapse anyway, the demolitions just ensure that they do"? No, the buildings collapse because the demolitions cut their support. Unless you believe they are actually brought down by teleknesis, and the demolitions are simply there for backup.

Can you name an example of a building that did that?

It doesn't take a very deep understanding of the laws of physics, to know, that of a collapsing building has ANY structural support what so ever, it cannot fall at free fall speed. And they certainly don't just crash in on themselves, all the way down to the ground like what happened on 9-11.

Besides, now we have strong physical evidence of a controlled demolition, and no one here seems to want to acknowledge that. But like it or not, it's something you're going to need to start dealing with. We've got some bad people running the show here....worse than most people imagine.

 

[tlongII]

Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down.

The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure. With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h. It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

 

[PapaG]

Debunked. On to the next wild-eyed conspiracy theory. Steven Jones deliberately left out the author's own reasonable and likely conclusion.

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

Alex Jones, professional conspiracy theorist radio host, has said Steven Jones found evidence of thermite. This isn't true. What Jones found was something which would have been in the debris pile anyway. Sulfur...

WTC Thermite

Sulfur

In Steven Jones' PDF "Answers to Objections and Questions", to support his claim for Sol-gels/Thermite he states:

"One molecule, described by the EPA's Erik Swartz, was present at levels "that dwarfed all others": 1,3-diphenylpropane. "We've never observed it in any sampling we've ever done,"

However when you look at the link he uses

http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hsair0911,0,471193.story?coll=ny-homepage-right-area

You find out Mr. Jones edits out the VERY next line which states:

"He said it was most likely produced by the plastic of tens of thousands of burning computers."

Apparently, Jones felt this was not important enough for his readers to know.

 

[PapaG]

A very well-constructed debunking of the absurd thermite "findings".

[video=youtube;OWpC_1WP8do]

 

[tlongII]

By definition if something is to fall at free fall speed it is falling at the speed of gravity. This is actually not a speed but rather a rate of acceleration. That is 9.8 M/sec (squared). This would mean for a building to simply colapse onto itself it needs to ACCELERATE in its fall.

For this to happen the 100 or so floors below would have to move out of the way of the falling top floors.

Common sense would tell you that the floors below would slow, not accelerate the fall.

This is why the finding of thermite IS a relevant finding.

It DID accelerate in its fall. The tremendous weight of the floors snapped the floor joists almost instantly when it reached each level. It just didn't accelerate as fast as it would have if nothing impeded the fall.