SCOTUS Rules employers do not have to provide contraception

[MarAzul]

$15 a month? Where? That's the copay after insurance.

Funny how there is only religious objection to women's healthcare.

Lifestyle choice? 98% of heterosexual women in America use birth control at some point in their life. Huge numbers of women (not "the occasional girl") use oral contraceptives for medical purposes. The lifestyle choice is being female.

Hobby Lobby covered birth control in their insurance for years. It was only after the ACA was passed that they suddenly found providing birth control coverage violated their "deeply held beliefs". Hobby Lobby products are made in China, a country famous for forced abortions. Hobby Lobby's 401(k) plan includes investments in manufacturers of abortion and contraception products.

In the hearing, it was claimed that Hobby Lobby "sincerely believed" birth control is abortion. And the ground rules were that it was enough that they "sincerely believed" that; it did not have to be factually correct. So an anti-science decision as well. Forget facts, if it's your "sincerely held belief" that the moon is made of green cheese, hey presto! it is!

Every man here who agrees with this decision: you had damn well better be a virgin for life.

28 day supply, WalMart $4 bucks. Now please tell me again why you need to have Obama fuck with anyone and their Religious convictions? Remember your opinion of their convictions do not count.

http://www.walmart.com/cp/4-Prescriptions/1078664

 

[oldmangrouch]

Of course, we are all skipping over the thresh-hold issue.

Hobby Lobby is a corporation - a legal fiction that exists only on paper. How can it have religious beliefs to offend?

The owners of Hobby lobby want the advantages that come with operating behind a corporate shell....but they also want to be treated like the owners of a small business who are actually involved with their employees. They want things both ways.

IMHO, the whole notion of corporation = person has reached an absurd extreme.

 

[Denny Crane]

$15 a month? Where? That's the copay after insurance.

Funny how there is only religious objection to women's healthcare.

Lifestyle choice? 98% of heterosexual women in America use birth control at some point in their life. Huge numbers of women (not "the occasional girl") use oral contraceptives for medical purposes. The lifestyle choice is being female.

Hobby Lobby covered birth control in their insurance for years. It was only after the ACA was passed that they suddenly found providing birth control coverage violated their "deeply held beliefs". Hobby Lobby products are made in China, a country famous for forced abortions. Hobby Lobby's 401(k) plan includes investments in manufacturers of abortion and contraception products.

In the hearing, it was claimed that Hobby Lobby "sincerely believed" birth control is abortion. And the ground rules were that it was enough that they "sincerely believed" that; it did not have to be factually correct. So an anti-science decision as well. Forget facts, if it's your "sincerely held belief" that the moon is made of green cheese, hey presto! it is!

Every man here who agrees with this decision: you had damn well better be a virgin for life.

I'm not about the whole lifestyle choice crap. I'm fine with contraception.

But my bad, it's only $9/month.

http://www.reproductiveaccess.org/contraception/lowcost_pills.htm

Pharmacies with Low-Cost Birth Control Pills
Kroger:
Kroger Generic Drug List and Kroger Store Locator
Sprintec or Trinessa: $9/month or $24/3 months
Price may higher in CA, MN, WY

Target:
Target Generic Drug List (under women’s health) and Target Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec: $9/month
Price may be higher in CA, MN, MT, PA, RI, TN, WI, and WY.

Wal-Mart:
Wal-Mart Generic Drug List (under women’s health) and Wal-Mart Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec
$9/month
Price may be higher in CA, HI, MN, MT, PA, TN, WI, and WY.

Sam’s Club
Sam’s Club Generic Drug List and Sam’s Club Store Locator
Sprintec or Tri-sprintec: $9/month
Price may be higher in CA, HI, MN, MT, PA, TN, WI, and WY.

 

[Eastoff]

Of course, we are all skipping over the thresh-hold issue.

Hobby Lobby is a corporation - a legal fiction that exists only on paper. How can it have religious beliefs to offend?

The owners of Hobby lobby want the advantages that come with operating behind a corporate shell....but they also want to be treated like the owners of a small business who are actually involved with their employees. They want things both ways.

IMHO, the whole notion of corporation = person has reached an absurd extreme.

I read somewhere, (excuse the shitty "i heard from a guy") that this ruling will target private single/family owner businesses only. So publicly traded companies won't have the same rights. Just a though I wanted to inject.

 

[crandc]

yeah, it is a life style choice..and as I stated, Hobby Lobby only objects to birth control that they feel aborts a child. They do provide 16 other forms. and for fucks sake, how does this effect you?

Anything that affects womens' rights affects me. And if you care, you probably don't, I was on oral contraceptives for endometriosis.

Let's say you were sick and you go to doctor and your doctor says based on best medical opinion you need treatment A. But then your boss said treatment A is against my religion so sorry, you can have treatment B only even though it is not nearly as effective. Besides, treatment A is only used by men and being a man is a lifestyle choice. How would you react? Oh sure, I'll live my life by your religion, boss, even if I can't get best medical care? But it's not likely to happen because religious objections just always seem to be about women's health. Funny even the most sincerely held religious beliefs never think of denying single dudes viagra.

 

[Denny Crane]

Anything that affects womens' rights affects me. And if you care, you probably don't, I was on oral contraceptives for endometriosis.

Let's say you were sick and you go to doctor and your doctor says based on best medical opinion you need treatment A. But then your boss said treatment A is against my religion so sorry, you can have treatment B only even though it is not nearly as effective. Besides, treatment A is only used by men and being a man is a lifestyle choice. How would you react? Oh sure, I'll live my life by your religion, boss, even if I can't get best medical care? But it's not likely to happen because religious objections just always seem to be about women's health. Funny even the most sincerely held religious beliefs never think of denying single dudes viagra.

It's more likely you'll go to the doctor, need treatment A, and the ObamaCare death squad will deny it.

 

[MarAzul]

Anything that affects womens' rights affects me. And if you care, you probably don't, I was on oral contraceptives for endometriosis.

Let's say you were sick and you go to doctor and your doctor says based on best medical opinion you need treatment A. But then your boss said treatment A is against my religion so sorry, you can have treatment B only even though it is not nearly as effective. Besides, treatment A is only used by men and being a man is a lifestyle choice. How would you react? Oh sure, I'll live my life by your religion, boss, even if I can't get best medical care? But it's not likely to happen because religious objections just always seem to be about women's health. Funny even the most sincerely held religious beliefs never think of denying single dudes viagra.

Here is a list of nine oral pills available at WalMart for $4.00 for a 28 day supply.
Does that help?


Oops! my bad, $9.00

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/if/hmp/fusion/customer_list.pdf

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Hmm, guess the suggestion to be polite went over your head. How come a woman can't object without "getting her panties in a bunch"?

Anything that affects womens' rights affects me. And if you care, you probably don't, I was on oral contraceptives for endometriosis.

Let's say you were sick and you go to doctor and your doctor says based on best medical opinion you need treatment A. But then your boss said treatment A is against my religion so sorry, you can have treatment B only even though it is not nearly as effective. Besides, treatment A is only used by men and being a man is a lifestyle choice. How would you react? Oh sure, I'll live my life by your religion, boss, even if I can't get best medical care? But it's not likely to happen because religious objections just always seem to be about women's health. Funny even the most sincerely held religious beliefs never think of denying single dudes viagra.

I thought I was being funny..and yeah, I knew I had a fifty fifty chance of rising your ire. I did believe the comedic value was worth it, in my opinion.

You seem to champion so many causes, it would seem that eventually you will stumble upon one worth your effort, other than your stand by LGBT community, that many of us admire you for.

Great argument if it were that simple and one sided as you present it. You see, no matter how many times it is said, you still ignore the facts. They only object to morning after type of pills, abortion, and IUDs. They do promote and allow 16 other types of birth control. It is a Christian company that practices publicly their values..ie closed on Sunday, playing Christian music in the stores, valuing family issues..these are nothing new to get around anything as they have been providing benefits above and beyond what the gov has required for decades.. It is pretty damn simple...you dont agree with company policy, dont work there..

oh and if the big deal is for part of the population to receive special benefits based upon gender, I do need to know how that is so progressively fair.....

 

[MarAzul]

Hard to understand how Obama and his democrats could ignore this part right up front in the 1st Amendment.


U.S. Constitution › First Amendment

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."


I guess is just shows the Constitution doesn't mean shit to them. I guess you can say the same about their taking the Oath of office.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

It's more likely you'll go to the doctor, need treatment A, and the ObamaCare death squad will deny it.

I know you kid, but recently I had the opportunity to deal with brownfingers legacy ....they asked me four times in four days about signing a DNR, Then they scheduled a panel to meet with me to try to change my mind...this is a reality..this is not the future or as brownfinger would say a myth

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I know you kid, but recently I had the opportunity to deal with brownfingers legacy ....they asked me four times in four days about signing a DNR, Then they scheduled a panel to meet with me to try to change my mind...this is a reality..this is not the future or as brownfinger would say a myth

Damn dude, you're in a mood today. First Crandc and now this brownfinger crack?

Nothing wrong with having a life extension directive for your doctor and family. Obviously you're one of the people who no matter how brain dead you might be you don't want that cord unplugged or your organs donated. And that's alright. That's your right. But it is important to make your wishes known. Death is inevitable, nothing wrong with having how you want to go out in writing.

 

[MARIS61]

Stop with the nonsense. Contraceptives cost $15/mo.

Maybe for you. Most people have more active lives.

And we're not just talking trojans here, contraception is an entire medical field.

Some forms of contraception cost tens of thousands of dollars.

An unwanted child costs all of us millions.

 

[MarAzul]

Maybe for you. Most people have more active lives.

And we're not just talking trojans here, contraception is an entire medical field.

Some forms of contraception cost tens of thousands of dollars.

An unwanted child costs all of us millions.

10s of thousands??? Geez, why the hell would you force an atheist to buy insurance covering that, let alone a Christian?

Does any one of those 4 contraceptions the Hobby Lobby objected to cost that much?
Or are you hallucinating?

 

[MARIS61]

A simple vasectomy is not cheap, and if complications arise...

 

[MARIS61]

WTF is a Hobby Lobby?

I'm guessing it has nothing at all to do with hobbies.

 

[MarAzul]

A simple vasectomy is not cheap, and if complications arise...

Is that in play here?



No!!!

"all four of the contraceptive methods Hobby Lobby objects to—Plan B, Ella, and two intrauterine devices"

 

[MarAzul]

"In Hobby Lobby Case, the Supreme Court Chooses Religion Over Science"

This is a ridiculous headline. The 1st amendment covers Religion not Science.

What the hell would you expect? Then the idiot says their beliefs are not supported by science!!!

Geez, I think the nit wit needs to study and learn the difference and the value of each.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/supreme-court-hobby-lobby-decision

 

[MARIS61]

Geez the comments on this board are scary. The majority want a socialist dictatorship, instead of freedom of choice including religion.

Why the hell does anyone want to force their employer or have the government force their employer to give up their religious beliefs just to receive something which you can buy cheap????

Why the hell do you want your employer to dictate how you spend your wages?

 

[MarAzul]

Why the hell do you want your employer to dictate how you spend your wages?

I don't and I don't think this employer wants to dictate either. I expect an employer can indeed decide what the wages shall be and in this case it does not include insurance that covers four types of birth control.
Employees can choose to accept or decline. The US government should have no roll in the agreement between these parties.

 

[MarAzul]

In reading Ginsburg's Dissent, she tries to make several points, all wrong, I think

The first point.
"The exemption sought by Hobby Lobby and Conestoga would…deny legions of women who do not hold their employers' beliefs access to contraceptive coverage"

Obviously wrong, they are not denied access.

The only point that discusses the Constitution's Establishment Clause and here again she is wrong.

"Approving some religious claims while deeming others unworthy of accommodation..."

The court only held that Hobby Lobby's and Conestoga's claims were worthy. They did not deem others unworthy.


Why was she picked to serve on this court???

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe for you. Most people have more active lives.

And we're not just talking trojans here, contraception is an entire medical field.

Some forms of contraception cost tens of thousands of dollars.

An unwanted child costs all of us millions.

We are just talking trojans and the pill here.

Maybe the morning after pill.

Whatever these religious people find violates their belief.

If you don't want the employer's offered insurance, go buy your own.

 

[MARIS61]

We are just talking trojans and the pill here.

Maybe the morning after pill.

Whatever these religious people find violates their belief.

If you don't want the employer's offered insurance, go buy your own.

If his religion forbade providing restrooms, or workbreaks, or safety equipment...?

 

[Denny Crane]

If his religion forbade providing restrooms, or workbreaks, or safety equipment...?

Let 'em sue and the courts decide.

Those things aren't "murder" by any definition.

 

[MARIS61]

SCOTUS is claiming religion is a defense for breaking the law.

Obviously, they are wrong.

 

[MARIS61]

Let 'em sue and the courts decide.

Those things aren't "murder" by any definition.

Neither is contraception.

 

[MARIS61]

In reading Ginsburg's Dissent, she tries to make several points, all wrong, I think

The first point.
"The exemption sought by Hobby Lobby and Conestoga would…deny legions of women who do not hold their employers' beliefs access to contraceptive coverage"

Obviously wrong, they are not denied access.

The only point that discusses the Constitution's Establishment Clause and here again she is wrong.

"Approving some religious claims while deeming others unworthy of accommodation..."

The court only held that Hobby Lobby's and Conestoga's claims were worthy. They did not deem others unworthy.


Why was she picked to serve on this court???

Because she is probably it's most qualified member.

SCOTUS has ruled over and over that the law trumps "religious" beliefs. That is what she referred to.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Neither is contraception.

Honestly, this is part of my problem with this whole case.

I can understand opposition to abortion even when I disagree with it. Anti-contraception is nothing more than the belief that women exist to serve the fatherland as good little incubators for the next generation of soldiers and laborers. That's *politics*, not religion.

 

[MARIS61]

Honestly, this is part of my problem with this whole case.

I can understand opposition to abortion even when I disagree with it. Anti-contraception is nothing more than the belief that women exist to serve the fatherland as good little incubators for the next generation of soldiers and laborers. That's *politics*, not religion.

Actually, it's slavery, which is also illegal. Most religions are okay with slavery, or stoning people to death for their beliefs, the list is endless. Let's just exempt from our laws anyone who claims to be religious.

 

[MarAzul]

SCOTUS has ruled over and over that the law trumps "religious" beliefs.

Can not be the case.
as the 1st Amendment says, ""Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Congress can not make a law that trumps the exorcizer of religion.

 

[Denny Crane]

Honestly, this is part of my problem with this whole case.

I can understand opposition to abortion even when I disagree with it. Anti-contraception is nothing more than the belief that women exist to serve the fatherland as good little incubators for the next generation of soldiers and laborers. That's *politics*, not religion.

The contraception in question in the case was akin to abortion, not ordinary contraceptives.

The morning after pill, for example. IUDs, too.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/30/politics/scotus-obamacare-contraception/

The Hahn family, owners of Conestoga, and the Green family, owners of Hobby Lobby, said some of the mandated contraception prevent human embryos from being implanted in a woman's womb, which the plaintiffs equate with abortion.

That includes Plan B contraception, which some have called the "morning after" pill, and intrauterine devices or IUDs used by an estimated 2 million American women.