Sean Elliott: Batum is the best SF in the league

[Boob-No-More]

If he continues his current production, then we're in real trouble. On a good team, Batum is a fourth or fifth fiddle.

But production is a lot more than just scoring. Not only is Nic's scoring average up from 13.9ppg to 19.3ppg, but his rebounding, assists and steals are all at career highs. On team where Batum would be the 4th or 5th option on offense, he can still contribute in so many more ways. He is quickly developing into the ultimate glue guy. It's only been 6 games under Stotts, but his PER = 21.9 isn't just a career high, but it's highest on the team ahead of both Aldridge and Lillard.

A guy who is the 3rd (or 4th or 5th) option on offense, but still leads the team in PER (by contributing on so many other ways) is a very valuable asset.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I get your point, but my problem with that line of thinking is that all of the people on the bottom half of that list are considered overpaid. Batum fits in right between the two groups. And really, SF is regarded as one of the easiest, if not the easiest, positions to fill in the NBA. So, unless you've got one of the difference makers at the very top of the list, it doesn't make much sense to pay someone like a franchise player when you could get more impact for your dollars elsewhere (small market issues aside).

As I posted here, Nic was 48th in the league in scoring last year and is the 49th highest paid player in the league this season. So, even with last year's 13.9ppg scoring average, Nic's salary this season is in line with his scoring ability - even if he doesn't improve his scoring over the 4-year life of his contract.

But, he has improved (so far, yeah I know it's only 6 games). Right now, Nic is 15th in the entire league in scoring per game, 4th in steals, 23rd in PER, 16th in EFF, 19th in WS, etc. Basically, he's currently performing like a top 20 player in the league, but being paid like the 49th best player in the league.

And, because Minnesota's front loaded his offer sheet, this year's salary is highest of his 4-year contract. Not only is Nic earning that contract (through 6 games), but he's looking like a bargain (so far). And, he's only 23 and still has room for further improvement - as his salary goes DOWN.

He may never be a 1st, 2nd or even 3rd scoring option on a contending team, but given his versatility and the other ways he contributes, that's actually a good thing. Now that he can score of the dribble, and is no longer just a spot up shooter, he can create for himself, and others, when teams double Lillard and force the ball out of his hands.

Is he the best small forward in the game? If you consider any, or all, of LeBron, Carmelo and Durant small forwards, then Batum isn't even in the conversation. But, even if he's only the 4th best SF in the league, behind those three, he's still a pretty damn good player, not overpaid at all (based on current production), young and still improving.

BNM

 

[handiman]

As I posted here, Nic was 48th in the league in scoring last year and is the 49th highest paid player in the league this season. So, even with last year's 13.9ppg scoring average, Nic's salary this season is in line with his scoring ability - even if he doesn't improve his scoring over the 4-year life of his contract.

But, he has improved (so far, yeah I know it's only 6 games). Right now, Nic is 15th in the entire league in scoring per game, 4th in steals, 23rd in PER, 16th in EFF, 19th in WS, etc. Basically, he's currently performing like a top 20 player in the league, but being paid like the 49th best player in the league.

That's a fair point, but I still want to see him perform at this level against teams other than LA/SA before I'm convinced this is his new level of production. He always gets amped up for Gasol and Parker, then lays an egg against the next opponent. Until he changes that, I'm not quite a believer.

 

[jlprk]

As I posted here, Nic was 48th in the league in scoring last year and is the 49th highest paid player in the league this season. So, even with last year's 13.9ppg scoring average, Nic's salary this season is in line with his scoring ability - even if he doesn't improve his scoring over the 4-year life of his contract.

Not this again. I thoroughly disproved it in the thread you cite. I showed that

So your Mission Impossible is to convince me that to rank at least #49 in league scoring, the minimum minutes to be "qualified" is above 1681 but fewer than 1792.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not this again. I thoroughly disproved it in the thread you cite. I showed that

You didn't show shit, other than the fact that you can't read.

Here is it, yet again, straight from the official source (nba.com):

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Look who is at #48, exactly as I said. If you disagree, please take it up with the league office. I'm sure they could use a good laugh.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

That's a fair point, but I still want to see him perform at this level against teams other than LA/SA before I'm convinced this is his new level of production. He always gets amped up for Gasol and Parker, then lays an egg against the next opponent. Until he changes that, I'm not quite a believer.

Yeah the sample size is small, but Nic has really only had 1 bad game (OKC) in 6 so far this year. Even in the games where he's only scored in the teens, he's made significant contributions in other areas. And, it's not just against the Lakers and Spurs. He put up 23 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals and a block against the Clippers and 17 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists, 6 steals and 2 blocks against the Rockets.

In fact, if you throw out that horrific game against OKC and Nic is averaging 22.6ppg, 7.2 rpg, 3.4apg, 3.0spg and 1.2bpg. Those are some pretty elite numbers.

BNM

 

[MickZagger]

Uhhhhhh, Batum might be our best player this year. I know from a production standpoint he is.

 

[jlprk]

I'm not going to spend a lot of time shooting down Boob's gimmick stat. Unless he keeps repeating it all season.

 

[handiman]

Tonight was an encouraging follow-up game.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'm not going to spend a lot of time shooting down Boob's gimmick stat. Unless he keeps repeating it all season.

Because, you can't shoot it down, no matter how much time you waste. Better to cut your losses and run.

It is an indisputable FACT, according to the NBA, that Nicolas Batum was 48th in the NBA in scoring average last season. I have provided the link, to the official source (nba.com) on multiple occasions. I'm not sure how you think providing a link to the official source is a "gimmick". Making up counter arguments and alternate criteria in a hopeless attempt to argue something that's irrefutable sounds much more like a gimmick to me.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Tonight was an encouraging follow-up game.

And Batum's stats tonight were inline with his season averages. In fact, his assists, steals and blocks were all below his averages. When Batum posts a 19/7 game, and it's a below average game (overall) for him, you know he's come a long way.

BNM

 

[mook]

Uhhhhhh, Batum might be our best player this year. I know from a production standpoint he is.

Honestly, on a night-in-night out basis, and a guy's productivity on both ends of the court, he's our best player right now.

 

[BBert]

Uhhhhhh, Batum might be our best player this year. I know from a production standpoint he is.

Add in defense, steals, shot blocking, rebounding, etc. and I don't think there is any question Nico is our best player so far this season. Heck, he might even be our best passer and his floor vision is terrific. Vindication is sweet.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Sean Elliot isn't the only one noticing Batum's increased production.

From the ESPN Weekly Dish:

"With the exception of one off night against Oklahoma City, Nicolas Batum has been operating in full fantasy beast mode with averages of 19.3 points, 6.2 boards, 3.2 assists, 2.7 steals, 1.0 blocks and 2.7 3-pointers after six games. More importantly, he is playing a whopping 39.5 minutes per game for the Blazers. He might be inconsistent on a night-to-night basis, but with minutes like that, Batum has the potential to be a top-20 player in fantasy leagues this season. Congrats if you drafted him, and enjoy the ride."

And he's currently listed as 19th in their Top 130 ranking.

Batum is already earning that big contract so many complained about. And, his salary actually goes down from here. The sample size is small, but Batum is still only 23 and has shown significant improvement with his larger, expanded role. He's now allowed to be more than a spot up 3-point specialist and is becoming the complete player many of us hoped he would. Those who continue to insist Batum isn't worth his contract are in complete denial. They'd rather see him suck than admit they were/are wrong.

BNM

 

[BrianFromWA]

Preach.

 

[jlprk]

You didn't show shit, other than the fact that you can't read...If you disagree, please take it up with the league office. I'm sure they could use a good laugh.

Because, you can't shoot it down, no matter how much time you waste. Better to cut your losses and run. It is an indisputable FACT...

http://sportstwo.com/threads/223416-SI-s-grim-assessment-of-the-Blazers/page2

Like you ran, from the thread in which I mathematically refuted you with no answer from you. You now make an authoritarian demand that the only possible list of qualified players must use the arbitrary standards in the NBA.com list. Yet as I said in that thread, any slight modification to that arbitrary standard would cancel the gimmick argument that you will repeat all season. You cling to that random standard because you are unable to see the larger picture. I could politely say you're a pompous blowhard, or I could throw your own genius phraseology back at you, "You don't know shit."
------------------
There is no question that Batum is our best player? You always speak in absolutes. You are too authoritarian. It may be true, but of course it can be questioned.

Per game, Batum is the best Blazer, because he gets more minutes than Hickson.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...-trail-blazers/team/playerstats/13/25/1-1-eff

Per minute, Hickson is the best Blazer.
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...-trail-blazers/team/playerstats/13/25/1-3-eff

I'm not saying that Hickson's a better player, because he isn't. I'm just saying that your constant leonine roaring that your opinion is unquestionable is tiresome.

Even if he is the best player on a crappy 2-5 team (.286), that does not irrefutably prove that he's worth $46M for 4 years. He may be worth it or he may not be, but what is tiresome is the anger in your writing.

 

[Boob-No-More]

You now make an authoritarian demand that the only possible list of qualified players must use the arbitrary standards in the NBA.com list.

It is authoritative because it comes from THE official source. The NBA says Batum was 48th in the NBA in scoring average last season. They should know. You act like I invented the standard and that it's somehow open to interpretation. All I did was report what is readily accessible on the official NBA web site.

There is no question that Batum is our best player? You always speak in absolutes. You are too authoritarian. It may be true, but of course it can be questioned.

Wow, huge strawman (is that you PapaG?). Since I NEVER said that, I feel no need to respond to anything you posted after that statement.

Have a nice day,
BNM

 

[3RA1N1AC]

jplrk, production can be quantified in a monetary sense, and in that sense, he is worth his contract

if everyone wants to assign their own idea of his worth as a variable they should feel free to do so, but not expect to necessarily have a chorus of people agreeing with them

 

[KingSpeed]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...arsExp=-1&splitDD=0&sortOrder=9&statType=FSPI

After tonight's game, Batum is 2nd in Fantasy rankings among ALL PLAYERS. Just behind Durant and just ahead of LeBron.

Unbelievable, we have a guy who is producing more than the fucking MVP last season.

Maybe Batum IS the best SF in the league!

GO BLAZERS

 

[KingSpeed]

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...arsExp=-1&splitDD=0&sortOrder=9&statType=FSPI

In PER, Nic is third among SFs but if KD and LeBron are PFs, then Nic is #1. Carmelo, another playing PF, is far below Nic.

 

[KingSpeed]

Is there a site tracks EFF? NBA.com used to but not anymore.

 

[Sinobas]

Right now, Batum is the best player on the team. I don't know if he'll keep up with this level of play, but he's better than Aldridge on BOTH ends of the floor (especially defense), and he plays with more fire. If LA doesn't step it up, he's going to be the 3rd fiddle on our team.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Is there a site tracks EFF? NBA.com used to but not anymore.

It's an official NBA stat, so you can still find it at nba.com. You just need to click on "Stats", "sortable Player Stats" and select "Efficiency" from the drop down menu.

Here's the direct link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Nic is currently 11th in the league.

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

Right now, Batum is the best player on the team. I don't know if he'll keep up with this level of play, but he's better than Aldridge on BOTH ends of the floor (especially defense), and he plays with more fire. If LA doesn't step it up, he's going to be the 3rd fiddle on our team.

If he can score over 20 ppg as third fiddle, I really don't care. The guy simply doesn't have the killer instinct that Lillard has. What's encouraging is to see Batum developing an aggressive attitude. He never had that before (thank you Nate McMillan).

 

[handiman]

I like that Aldridge is getting his points efficiently. He's leading the team in scoring while not really being the focal point, which bodes well for the long-term. He's a great safety valve anywhere on the court.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

It's an official NBA stat, so you can still find it at nba.com. You just need to click on "Stats", "sortable Player Stats" and select "Efficiency" from the drop down menu.

Here's the direct link:

http://www.nba.com/statistics/playe...itScope=GAME&qualified=Y&yearsExp=-1&splitDD=

Nic is currently 11th in the league.

BNM

Funny little coincidence: Batum is 11th (22.6), LA is 21st (20.3), and Lillard is 43rd (17.9), almost a 11, 22, 44 situation.