Game Thread SEASON 8, The End!

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“Our fathers were evil men. All of us here. They left the world worse than they found it. We’re not going to do that. We’re going to leave the world better than we found it” - Dany
 
VanillaGorilla said:
Of course she's never gone berserk on innocents before, but she's always been vindictive and only reluctantly followed advice from others. She's lost two of her "children" and her best (and only?) friend. The man she loves is the rightful ruler, which she based her entire identity on before, and the people she wants to rule don't love her at all. She has no place. I realize that's all happened this season but I just think her psychotic break makes sense.

I mean, this is certainly better than her just winning and becoming a benevolent queen, IMO.
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For the most part the people who followed her did so of their own free will. What she's turned into would be the equivalent of her killing all the slaves instead of freeing them.

I don't believe her transformation to being mad. It's like the Star Wars prequels in which I don't believe Anakin would just start murdering innocent children.

Much like Lost a show that I thoroughly enjoyed turned into complete shit.
 
hoopsjock said:
Please stop fucking talking about this.
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I have literally revealed nothing. Get over it.

Whether something sucks or is good is completely subjective. I thought this episode sucked. Vanilla liked it.

If you hadn't seen Avengers End Game, and I told you it sucked, would that have spoiled anything for you? No. I'm just telling you that I think the ending is going to suck if it plays out like some people have said. I didn't say it would be a happy ending or a sad ending or anything else that actually gives anything away. Just that I think it will be lame.

And if it really bothers you, just block me.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I have literally revealed nothing. Get over it.

Whether something sucks or is good is completely subjective. I thought this episode sucked. Vanilla liked it.

If you hadn't seen Avengers End Game, and I told you it sucked, would that have spoiled anything for you? No. I'm just telling you that I think the ending is going to suck if it plays out like some people have said. I didn't say it would be a happy ending or a sad ending or anything else that actually gives anything away. Just that I think it will be lame.
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Why can't you fucking respect that this thread is for discussing the episode and non-spoiler theories?
 
I've not been a fan of this season, but I did end up liking this episode. We've come to expect epic battles with grisly sword play, clever strategies, big time tension and twists. So, I was fully expecting the dragon to go down and Cersei to win...for at least this episode anyway. Instead, it was a one sided massacre which is realistically what it should be. How many different ways can they show these battles? And how can they keep topping the previous ones? For the first time, it was mostly shown thru the eyes of innocents and I thought that was fresh and needed.

I like that they added a new name for Arya's list. Gives her some new purpose. Not sure if she'll take out Dany or the dragon, but it's gotta be at least one of them. I understand why folks aren't buying Dany's darker turn, but it's plausible enough for me. I was dubious about Jaime returning to Cersei after she'd just hired someone to murder him, but it ended up being more about ensuring he was with her at the end than trying to re-win her or defend her. I thought that was pretty good closure for his character arc and if Cersei had to go out, best it literally and figuratively came crashing down on her. I don't know what I expected of Euron, he's portrayed so much differently than the books. For what they built him up as, I suppose it was fitting. Greyjoys, as portrayed in the show, are more bark than actual bite. Hound and Mountain was pretty good. Figured fire would play a role. I'm looking forward to next week now. Ultimately, the story is about the Starks and Targaryens and here they are last two standing. It will be interesting where they stage it. Along the Trident River would be pretty cool.
 
hoopsjock said:
For the most part the people who followed her did so of their own free will. What she's turned into would be the equivalent of her killing all the slaves instead of freeing them.

I don't believe her transformation to being mad. It's like the Star Wars prequels in which I don't believe Anakin would just start murdering innocent children.

Much like Lost a show that I thoroughly enjoyed turned into complete shit.
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I actually think "Lost" ends better than this. "Lost" had too many plot contrivances that the writers never could (or intended to) tie up. The characters, though, remained true to who they were, for the most part (Locke, to me, being the one notable exception).

In GoT, the characterizations got thrown out in an effort to tie things up and for cinematographic majesty. In the end, stories are about people, where they come from, how they react. A good story gives us characters with whom we can resonate, sympathize. None of us ever is going to burn down a medieval city with a dragon, but some of us will be left feeling isolated and alone or facing what appears to be an insurmountable challenge. Once you lose the characters, you might as well be watching a video game.
 
The one character the writers seemed to care enough about not to change was Jon. He's a good character who really makes you think, if you stop looking at him as just the hero.

I always said there are "good guys" and there are "nice guys," and they aren't the same thing. A good guy will make hard yet unpopular decisions. A nice guy will shrink away from that, often doing what superficially helps people but being more comfortable being a secondary figure to avoid being disliked.

Jon's a "nice guy."

Jon's dangerous, more dangerous than Cersei or Dany. He has this likability factor, this charisma, that draws people to him. He has this authenticity. But he's neither smart nor wise nor ambitious. That leads to him being a false messiah. People are literally following a guy who knows nothing, and flocking to him resulted in tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths in this show, from his ill-planned and ill-executed defense of Winterfell to his honest-to-a-fault need to share explosive information with Sansa on the eve of the battle of King's Landing. He says he has to tell Sansa and Arya because they are family ... and yet, Dany not only is family, too, but she is his love. His intentions might be good, but he can't read people or situations. He leaves the person who has sacrificed more for him and his cause than anyone because he is much too simple. But that's true to his character. It's who he always was.

I'm interested to see how many if anyone picks up on the idea that Jon actually is one of the true villains of this series, if at least unintentionally. Dany got it right. He betrayed her. But he's the useful idiot that thousands would follow to their deaths because he can inspire to causes with no good plan on how to accomplish his goals, and then he doesn't really want to take the responsibility of picking up the pieces afterward.
 
As much as I think the writers unnecessarily and irrationally skewed Dany's character, I'd probably feel even more upset if I was a Cersei fan.

The biggest chess player in the series along with Littlefinger, the coolest cucumber, the master manipulator, the calculator. Oh, and she has a plan for this.

So her plan turns out to be playing Davy Crockett in the Red Keep? Huh? That's your plan?

And she goes out like a chump, sniveling and saying she doesn't want to die. She should be Khan or Richard III, with her last breath spitting at Dany. Nah. She's turned into the damsel in distress: "Oh, Jaime, you came back! Hold me."

And Euron ... he's all about self-preservation. He's literally a freaking pirate! He's going to pick an ego-driven fight with an ally as King's Landing is falling down around them? No, of course he's not. He's either getting to Cersei and getting out of there to keep the war going or, more likely, he's getting out of there himself and figuring out a new way to pursue wealth and power. He's an egomaniac, but that's not going to supersede his lust for power. He's been a very patient character. Suddenly he's going to pursue a minor grudge to the death, just giving up everything? Makes no sense.
 
Mediocre Man said:
D&D have really ruined this season. A lot of character arcs were destroyed this season.

My issues with the last episode

1. Cersei crying?
2. Cersei, one of the best villains of all time, deserved a better death....if she's indeed dead.
3. Jaime's entire arc was worthless
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I think that if you think about it more carefully, you'll have a lot more than 3 issues with the episode :)
 
I enjoyed the episode. However, the obvious lack of internal consistency is really going to
hamper season 8's rewatchability.

D & D obviously never played D&D or they'd have a freaking clue.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
I enjoyed the episode. However, the obvious lack of internal consistency is really going to
hamper season 8's rewatchability.

D & D obviously never played D&D or they'd have a freaking clue.
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The visuals were tremendous, and I think the first 45 minutes made sense for the characters and the battle. Once Dany threw her victory out the Moon Door everything seemed to be sacrificed in the interest of creating a bunch of WTF moments.
 
I thought the episode was okay. Much like all the episodes since the producers had to strike out on their own, there was some good and some bad, but the story feels off.

The good:

1. The scene where the Hound convinces Arya to turn back and the price of focusing on vengeance. It was pretty powerful and well-written IMO and it was my favorite scene of the episode

2. Briefly seeing wildfire deposits going off in the city during Dany's burninating. Only one glimpse of it, but it hints at a Cersei plot that never really culminated. I like touches like that--things people were doing that didn't ultimately "matter" to the story. It makes the world feel more alive and realistic, things are happening that aren't just for a narrative pay-off

3. Dany's massacre mostly shown from the perspective of all the people suffering and dying. The producers didn't say it (they only said that usually such scenes are shown from the perspective of the 'heroes,' but they wanted to ground it in those affected) but I felt it was clear that they made this choice to rather unsubtly hit us over the head with how "max atrocity" Dany and her army have gone. But it was very effective.

The bad:

1. They did a poor job of getting Dany to villain status. I agree with Vanilla Gorilla that the show has been slowly building toward Dany displaying her "mad queen" possibilities, but how they finished the job in this episode was absurd. After agreeing that the people of King's Landing were innocents (but that she may have to kill them for the greater good, which was a more realistic standpoint for her), she decides, "Well, I've gotten everything I want--I think I'll just start burning up those innocents for no reason." It's not like anything even happened during the battle that could have enraged her--the killing of Missandei was before she agreed to call off the dogs if the bells were rung. It seemed like the producers were just determined to make her as mustache-twirling villainous as possible, no matter how unrealistic the sequence of events. They didn't even bother to throw in some token "enrage factor," like maybe seeing Grey Worm die to a treacherous Golden Company solider or Gold Cloak.

2. The show wasn't aiming for misdirection with Jaime last episode, he wasn't heading back to King's Landing to kill Cersei, he really did want to rejoin her. Considering he stuck by her through everything until she decided not to honor her alliance against the wights and then immediately rode back to her, it undermines his "redemptive arc" and leaves his perspective with Cersei largely as "I think you should have fought against the undead--outside of that decision, I'm totally on board with you."

3. More of a gripe about the previous episode, but they made it more obvious in this one: Dany finally learned that if you don't drive your dragon straight all the time, the scorpions can't do anything to her. There's no way she should have been forced to flee by Euron's fleet last episode. They basically re-ran the same scenario in this episode and she burned his fleet up just as easily as she should have been able to last episode.

The producers said that this season would offer one last "omg" moment, akin to the Red Wedding, and nothing so far qualifies, IMO. I'm wondering if that oh-shit moment will be Jon killing Dany, after the horrific atrocities he witnessed her commit for absolutely no reason.
 
The last dire wolf is going to fuck the dragon.

And a dragon dog will sit on the Iron Throne.

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Natebishop3 said:
Never watched any of game of thrones?
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Me neither. Although I like a good science fiction I really don't care for fantasy and magic.
Loved Forbidden Planet, Blade Runner, The Road, Last Night with Sandra Oh, Star Wars, 2001 A Space Odyssey, War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, The Martian, Prometheus and Alien.
 
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