OT Seattle?

[dviss1]

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3 mins ago – via king5.com
Seattle Mayor Ed Murray and the Oak View Group (OVG) have a formal agreement to build a $600 million privately financed arena at Seattle Center, with tens of millions more in transportation mitigation.
The deal calls for construction to begin next year and be complete by 2020. The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), as it is commonly known, will be formally submitted to the Seattle City Council on Tuesday.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make these billionaires finance their OWN stadiums!!

 

[Voodoo]

Yeah for real they can afford it since they end up making bank when they sell the team later too. Public financing of arenas is a scam any way you look at it.

 

[julius]

Weird that they're totally avoiding Chris Hansen...or whatever that guys name was, who tried to buy the Kings and wanted to build an arena on his own dime.

I won't be surprise if the NHL moves to Seattle before they go to Portland, despite the fact the Winterhawks have better support and a *currently opened* arena ready (granted, no real ownership is there).

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Yeah for real they can afford it since they end up making bank when they sell the team later too. Public financing of arenas is a scam any way you look at it.

Is it?

I mean, they can set a tax on ticket sales to recoup all of the money and then some.

 

[e_blazer]

Check out Hoopshype

3 mins ago – via king5.com
Seattle Mayor Ed Murray and the Oak View Group (OVG) have a formal agreement to build a $600 million privately financed arena at Seattle Center, with tens of millions more in transportation mitigation.
The deal calls for construction to begin next year and be complete by 2020. The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), as it is commonly known, will be formally submitted to the Seattle City Council on Tuesday.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make these billionaires finance their OWN stadiums!!

I'm scratching my head here. Isn't "privately financed" what you're asking for?

 

[santeesioux]

I won't be surprise if the NHL moves to Seattle before they go to Portland, despite the fact the Winterhawks have better support and a *currently opened* arena ready (granted, no real ownership is there).

That's totally what the NHL is waiting for before expanding again. Seattle will be "good enough" for us just like it is with the NFL and MLB.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sad Seattle will get NHL before Portland

 

[THE HCP]

This is good. I want the Sonics back.

 

[blue9]

Is it?

I mean, they can set a tax on ticket sales to recoup all of the money and then some.

So then it's financed by you and me - the ticket buyers.

 

[Voodoo]

Is it?

I mean, they can set a tax on ticket sales to recoup all of the money and then some.

Go back and check the records, the amount cities and municipalities bring in are almost always less than they spent on the arena itself. Unless you have some evidence proving otherwise from what I have read the cities always get screwed.

Plus who's benefiting the most when an owner later sells the team for magnitudes more than they bought it for? The city, or the billionaire who just quadrupled their investment after the city forked out all that money on the arena.

Yeah F that I am not down to subsizdize billionaires, if they want a team they can pay full price; and that includes the arena!

 

[blue9]

Sad Seattle will get NHL before Portland

Why is that sad? They're a much larger city. It makes sense that they would get NHL before Portland.

 

[julius]

Why is that sad? They're a much larger city. It makes sense that they would get NHL before Portland.

They're not a "much" larger city, and they don't have an arena that is currently ready for the NHL. And their "fan support" is tepid at best.

 

[dviss1]

I'm scratching my head here. Isn't "privately financed" what you're asking for?

Has the stadium been built? Until it has, with private money, I'm still going to plead with the American public NOT to finance stadiums for billionaires.

 

[dviss1]

It's like this for me:

An NBA franchise is a brick and mortar business. Spend money to come to my store to buy my product.

We don't build stores for Nordstrom. They build/lease their own.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Why is that sad? They're a much larger city. It makes sense that they would get NHL before Portland.

It's sad because I love the NHL, and I'd love my home town of Portland to get a team so I could root for them. No other reason

 

[e_blazer]

Has the stadium been built? Until it has, with private money, I'm still going to plead with the American public NOT to finance stadiums for billionaires.

No, but it says that the MOU will be for a privately funded stadium, so it sounds like the proposal is for what you want.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

They're not a "much" larger city, and they don't have an arena that is currently ready for the NHL. And their "fan support" is tepid at best.

I think fan support in Portland would be pretty "meh" for NHL, I'd be all about it but after the first honeymoon seasons and the reality that being an expansion team takes time the Moda Center stands would look this...

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Go back and check the records, the amount cities and municipalities bring in are almost always less than they spent on the arena itself. Unless you have some evidence proving otherwise from what I have read the cities always get screwed.

Plus who's benefiting the most when an owner later sells the team for magnitudes more than they bought it for? The city, or the billionaire who just quadrupled their investment after the city forked out all that money on the arena.

Yeah F that I am not down to subsizdize billionaires, if they want a team they can pay full price; and that includes the arena!

Why would the city care if the billionaire sold the rights to the team.

They would be the one still collecting tax money on each ticket sold.

You can go do that research.

Logically, if the city paid it, set up a plan to tax each ticket to recoup and create a revenue stream, it should work.

Sometimes it does not, but it 100% should in theory.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

So then it's financed by you and me - the ticket buyers.

Yeah, but it's essentially an investment on behalf of the city. Theoretically they would recoup those costs and get an investment back. Don't you want them making more money on their own without having to ask you for more?

 

[dviss1]

Yeah, but it's essentially an investment on behalf of the city. Theoretically they would recoup those costs and get an investment back. Don't you want them making more money on their own without having to ask you for more?

Theoretically...

 

[julius]

I think fan support in Portland would be pretty "meh" for NHL, I'd be all about it but after the first honeymoon seasons and the reality that being an expansion team takes time the Moda Center stands would look this...

The Winterhawks have strong support, even in crappy seasons. They average something like 9K for minor league hockey (in the moda). It wouldn't take much for them to average 15K -17 for the NHL.

 

[blue9]

Yeah, but it's essentially an investment on behalf of the city. Theoretically they would recoup those costs and get an investment back. Don't you want them making more money on their own without having to ask you for more?

Uh, a tax of ticket sales means the public is paying for the stadium. No, I'm NOT down with that.

 

[Voodoo]

Why would the city care if the billionaire sold the rights to the team.

They would be the one still collecting tax money on each ticket sold.

You can go do that research.

Logically, if the city paid it, set up a plan to tax each ticket to recoup and create a revenue stream, it should work.

Sometimes it does not, but it 100% should in theory.

As I was expecting that to be you're response I did, and the conclusion is that it doesn't work.

http://gardner.utah.edu/_documents/publications/finance-tax/sports-stadiums.pdf

I never said or questioned whether the city would care if the billionaire made money, my question was who made out better? But since you brought it up, I am sure Seattle cares a lot that new owners bought the Sonics and moved them. Imagine if Seattle had forked over money for a new stadium just to have the team leave later before the city broke even on its initial investment?

Economically it is basically proven that it's never in the best interest of the city to publicly fund a stadium, that was my point. You may have a theory, but I have evidence on my side.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

The Winterhawks have strong support, even in crappy seasons. They average something like 9K for minor league hockey.

1. It wouldn't take much for them to average 15K -17 for the NHL.

They're also a very good minor league team

With affordable tickets

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

As I was expecting that to be you're response I did, and the conclusion is that it doesn't work.

http://gardner.utah.edu/_documents/publications/finance-tax/sports-stadiums.pdf

I never said or questioned whether the city would care if the billionaire made money, my question was who made out better? But since you brought it up, I am sure Seattle cares a lot that new owners bought the Sonics and moved them. Imagine if Seattle had forked over money for a new stadium just to have the team leave later before the city broke even on its initial investment?

Economically it is basically proven that it's never in the best interest of the city to publicly fund a stadium, that was my point. You may have a theory, but I have evidence on my side.

Uh, the city has all the cards. They can make the owner agree to stay for 50 years if they are gonna agree to finance the stadium. Problem solved.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Uh, a tax of ticket sales means the public is paying for the stadium. No, I'm NOT down with that.

You make the choice of buying the tickets. You wouldn't have to if you didn't want to. Many others would, and they would enjoy themselves.

 

[julius]

They're also a very good minor league team

With affordable tickets

They haven't always been. And why is it people who don't think NHL (or NFL or MLB) would survive here always bring up the costs, as if the city is dirt poor and no where else in the US ticket prices are high?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Fuck Seattle.

 

[dviss1]

No, but it says that the MOU will be for a privately funded stadium, so it sounds like the proposal is for what you want.

Again, until it's built... Not sure what we're arguing about...

 

[Voodoo]

Uh, the city has all the cards. They can make the owner agree to stay for 50 years if they are gonna agree to finance the stadium. Problem solved.

You're making wild assertions, neither of them are based on facts though. No team has a 50 year lease or commitment, no the city doesn't have all the bargaining power. Unfortunately usually the owners do because they can threaten to take their team away from the city if they don't cough up tens of millions of dollars. It's hard for an elected official to bargain with them when there's a lot of pressure from fans to do what's necessary to keep the team in town. The billionaire doesn't need to worry about getting reelected.

You still didn't even respond to the point that the city doesn't economically benefit from it. If they did why wouldn't the owners just fund it and collect all that theoretical money from parking spots? It's because that's an economic fallacy and they know that.

They are smart and want the city to take on part of the economic risk for them as they know that there's very little profit year over year from running a team. The true profit is not from running the business of an nba team, no the profit is made when they sell the team.

For example the Rockets owner paid $85 million in 93, and he's listed the team for $1.65 billion in 2017.