Sergio Needs to Go.

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barfo said:
So, you are saying Sergio needs to grow, not go?

barfo
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Yep. Like a chick.

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Drink Your Milkshake said:
Sergio is a better passer and has better court vision, but yeah Blake is better at scoring the ball. What position do they play again?
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Is this a trick question? When Brandon's in the game they play off-guard, when he's out of the game they play point ... so I guess you could say they are both required to play combo-guard.
 
this is a ridiculous thread...serg has been a nice spark off the bench this season and deserves everything that is coming to him. he worked his ass off in the offseason, developed a decent 3pt shot and is a better passer than anyone on this team.

with that said, blake is gone in the off season. don't bring him back and instead insert bayless into the starting lineup where he can be much more effective playing with roy.
 
I wonder if this is another one of Hank's trolling experiments where he goes back and posts the results to O-live like he's done on two other forums.
 
I think of Sergio as a placeholder for when Bayless is ready. Just like Batun is a placeholder for when Webster is back.
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
I think of Sergio as a placeholder for when Bayless is ready. Just like Batun is a placeholder for when Webster is back.
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I think Batum is much better than you think he is.

And Bayless is ready now.

there is virtually no dropoff on any level from El Nacho to Bayless.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Is this a trick question? When Brandon's in the game they play off-guard, when he's out of the game they play point ... so I guess you could say they are both required to play combo-guard.
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Brandon rarely brings the ball up unless it's in the 4th qtr. Blake and Sergio bring the ball up the court pretty much every time.
 
andalusian said:
Sergio is playing better this year than before
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Before what? Yes, he's playing better this year than last, but his play is virtually identical to what it was his rookie year. If anything, it's slightly worse. The only difference is a greater percentage of his shots are 3-pointers. However, his TS% and eFG% are both lower than they were his rookie year. His per/36 scoring is down from his rookie year, as is his PER. His assists/36 are up very slightly (9.2 vs. 9.1) and his turnovers are the same (3.2 TO/36). If anything, his overall performance is slightly worse than it was as a rookie.

He gets a couple more minutes per game now than he did his rookie year. That, and the one alley oop highlight pass to Rudy per game, seems to make people think he's made vast improvements in his game.

Yes, he's playing much better than he did last season, but he's basically back to playing like a mistake prone rookie. That was promising when he was actually a rookie, but now he's a 3rd year player who hasn't shown any real improvement since he entered the league.

I don't think that means we need to trade him, at least not right this instant, but eventually, Bayless will earn PT and then we will have three players fighting for minutes as the point. Blake, who is steady and doesn't make many mistakes (FTs against the Clippers aside) seems like more of a "Nate guy". So, eventually Sergio may find himself without a role on this team. Giving him PT now is a good idea for two reasons. First, he's better than the inexperienced Bayless right now. Second, it increases his trade value. All those alley oop highlights on Sports Center are bound to turn a few heads.

BNM
 
I have no idea if this has been discussed here. It seems that Sergio likes to do the half-court heave at the end of quarters, which kills his shooting percentage. Here is an excerpt.

Blazers Edge said:
I know, I know, his three point percentage is average (its actually slightly above average 37%). But it actually isn't. His true three point percentage is actually above 40%. When I took a look at the box score today, and saw Sergio Rodriguez 3/9, and 2/4 from three, I thought, that isn't the game I just saw. Those shots don't represent even his shooting impact on the game. The part I won't significantly get into here is the fact that on two of his missed shots, that he blew past the player defending him, and caused a big to challenge his shot (allowing Joel and LaMarcus to dunk off his missed layups). The part I want to get into is part of the un-stats. Specifically the half court heaves that show up on your box score, but represent zero of your ability to reasonably and effectively hit your three point shot in a game. As it stands now, Sergio Rodriguez is 14 for 38 on the year from three (37%). 5 of those shots, or 13% of his three point shots for the year have been of the half court heave variety. 13%, I've concluded is among the highest percentages of half court heaves to three point shots in the NBA. Steve Blake by comparison, has shot 3 of them on the year (3% of his threes) . His real, honest to goodness 3 point percentage is 45/103 (106 w/ half court heaves) or 43.7%. By comparison, right now Sergio sits at 14/33 (38 w/ half court heaves) or 42.4%. When someone in the game threads throws up their arms (or like computer anology), feel free to let them know, when Sergio Rodriguez has an open three point shot, not only is it not the end of the world, it actually results in a T(otal)S(hot)% of 64%. I've compiled a list of guards that have a TS% of over 64%... Steve Nash. The point being, when you're criticizing Sergio's game this year, be fair about it. Things you're allowed to complain about on the offensive end include; Sergio's inability to finish at the rack and his inability to make supposedly easy mid range buckets... end of list.
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The thing I didn't like about Sergio was that he pouted all last season and started complaining again this year, even though Nate said at the start of the year there is only 5-10 minutes for the backup PG, whether it be Bay or Surge.

But Sergio gets way too much hate me thinks. I think that he has improved. He has improved his 3 point shooting, he has cut down a little on some TOs (IMO at least) and has slightly improved his D. These are good signs for a, what, 22 yr old? Lots of teams would love him.

He would dominate in NY. He would be an awesome backup to Duhon. Or GOlden State, or even Memphis where he can get Mayo and Gay involved and play w/ Marc Gasol.
 
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BBert said:
I have no idea if this has been discussed here. It seems that Sergio likes to do the half-court heave at the end of quarters, which kills his shooting percentage.
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The last-second heaves are frustrating... many players in the NBA won't even shoot them (presumably because it hurts FG%, which can cost a player money come contract time).

So often we see a player dribble and then shoot a long shot right AFTER the buzzer goes off. That way it looks like they're trying but it doesn't hurt their stats.

Of course, it also doesn't help their team. Even if there's just a 5% chance of a buzzer-beater going in... who wouldn't want your team to have that chance at extra points? Well... except the player who will miss 19 out of 20 times.

I wish there was a special stat for last-second shots (or shots taken from over halfcourt) so it wouldn't pollute "real" statistical analysis and would let teams and fans get more last-second buckets.

Ed O.
 
Watching Bayless last night I could really see him being the future at PG for us. At this point its clear he will be able to do everything we need a PG to do -- once he learns how to facilitate the play of his teammates, like a PG should. Sergio will continue to improve and will be a heck of a backup, at worst. For the long term, Blake is expendable, and I really don't see a drop off most games when Blake is not in -- but I'm not going to argue with the numbers. Going forward, a Bayless-Sergio-Kopo PG lineup looks pretty good to me. That is unless KP seriously upgrades the PG position for us. Listening to TP last night, I think my Steve Nash dream is dead, LOL.
 
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Boob-No-More said:
Before what? Yes, he's playing better this year than last, but his play is virtually identical to what it was his rookie year. If anything, it's slightly worse. The only difference is a greater percentage of his shots are 3-pointers. However, his TS% and eFG% are both lower than they were his rookie year. His per/36 scoring is down from his rookie year, as is his PER. His assists/36 are up very slightly (9.2 vs. 9.1) and his turnovers are the same (3.2 TO/36). If anything, his overall performance is slightly worse than it was as a rookie.
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Well, you are right on the simple level of straight statistics and you are wrong on the conclusion, in my opinion, and I will tell you why.

Sergio had a fantastic start to his rookie season because people were guarding him as if he could shoot, opening the passing targets for his remarkable court vision (and it is remarkable - there is no argument there - and if you look at my post history you will notice that I am not Sergio's biggest fan). He went into a tail-spin when the league scouted him and understood how to play him to make him less effective. We have seen the results of that at the end of his rookie year and his 2nd and miserable year.

The fact that his production this year, when the league knows how to play him and minimize his effectiveness is at the level he got during his first year when the league did not understand how to play him is proof, in my mind, that he got better individually even if his raw statistics do not show it.

Sergio right now, plays like a backup PG in the league - and that's a big improvement on his previous years - the first year he gave you a backup PG like performance when the defense did not know how to deal with him - and last year he gave you scrub performance who was on his way back to the Euro leagues when the league did know how to make his life harder.

Right now - he is back to rotation backup PG production when the league is trying to take away his strong attributes and minimize his production. To me, this is a big improvement because he proved that he is a rotation player in the NBA - something he was not in his rookie or 2nd year.

I still think that Bayless is a better prospect - but I am happy for Sergio that he proved he belongs in this league. The fact that he got his head where it belongs, worked hard to address some of his obvious weaknesses is very encouraging - I still doubt he will become a star in the league - but he is a lot better than he was before.
 
BBert said:
I have no idea if this has been discussed here. It seems that Sergio likes to do the half-court heave at the end of quarters, which kills his shooting percentage. Here is an excerpt.
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thanks for relaying the enlightening points from Blazers Edge.

I see Sergio being the back up to Jerryd probably starting next year. Because he dominates the ball I don't see him meshing with Roy particularly well, but being a good option for leading the 2nd unit's attack. His poor D is probably mostly because of his relative lack of athleticism and that won't ever change, but improving his outside threat has kept him in the rotation and discussions of the future.

STOMP
 
Hank The Dwarf said:
there is virtually no dropoff on any level from El Nacho to Bayless.
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I have to agree. Plus Bayless' D is better than either Blake or Sergio right now. He fights through picks and doesn't allow easy penetration.

When I see Sergio and/or Frye getting subbed into a game, I wince because I know we are about ready to gov up a 8-0 run.
 
andalusian said:
Well, you are right on the simple level of straight statistics and you are wrong on the conclusion, in my opinion, and I will tell you why.

Sergio had a fantastic start to his rookie season because people were guarding him as if he could shoot, opening the passing targets for his remarkable court vision (and it is remarkable - there is no argument there - and if you look at my post history you will notice that I am not Sergio's biggest fan). He went into a tail-spin when the league scouted him and understood how to play him to make him less effective. We have seen the results of that at the end of his rookie year and his 2nd and miserable year.
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I see your point, but statistically, Sergio's rookie year performance was just as impacted by his second half slump as it was by his quick start. In other words, his rookie performance was not overly inflated by his early season stats. It all evened out in the end as teams adjusted to his game - and he didn't adjust to those changes. He also suffered that high ankle sprain and didn't seem like the same player after he returned. So, while his rookie performance was promising, it's not like he had fantastic stats for the entire season after taking teams by surprise the first time they saw him.

andalusian said:
The fact that his production this year, when the league knows how to play him and minimize his effectiveness is at the level he got during his first year when the league did not understand how to play him is proof, in my mind, that he got better individually even if his raw statistics do not show it.
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He may have gotten "better" individually, but the results are still the same they as were when he was an error prone, no defense rookie. He has added an almost respectable 3-pointer, but he's worse at finishing in the lane, turns the ball over at exactly the same high rate, and still can't play defense (although at least now he looks like he's TRYING to play defense).

After last year's disastorus season, we should be thankful that his production is back to where it was his rookie year. That's not enough to justify keeping him long term with Bayless waiting in the wings, but at least it once agian makes him an attractive trading piece to teams that play a faster offensivle style.

BNM
 
Drink Your Milkshake said:
Brandon rarely brings the ball up unless it's in the 4th qtr. Blake and Sergio bring the ball up the court pretty much every time.
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So bringing the ball up is the sole criteria for being a "point?" I'm not disagreeing that Brandon does not fill the traditional point guard/shooting guard role, but neither does Blake when he's playing alongside of him. That's just the point, the Blazers have sort of unique requirements out of their point guard position that other teams with more traditional backcourts don't have. the only analogue's I can think of are Cleveland, Atlanta, Miami, and the Lakers to a certain extent; each of those teams have a dynamic play making wing (Lebron, Johnson, Wade, Kobe) that generates a lot of opportunities for themselves and others and need a side-kick point guard who can morph into a little bit of an off-guard when the situation calls for it (Bibby and Mo Williams spring to mind as perfect compliments). The Terry-Clyde backcourt operated a little bit like this; Porter could hardly be called a pure point guard.

The ONLY reason I think Bayless has long term potential as a point guard FOR THE BLAZERS is because he's so comfortable playing off guard, was a good outside shooter in college, and has an attacking mentality (on both ends of the court) Put Bayless on a different team that requires a pure passing point guard and I don't think he would flourish -- it's an open question if he'd be able to play 2 guard full time somewhere else.
 
*edited: Please refrain from attacking posters*
 
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Hank The Dwarf said:
I think Batum is much better than you think he is.

And Bayless is ready now.

there is virtually no dropoff on any level from El Nacho to Bayless.
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I don't know if you've seen any of the games but I've seen every game thus far and the few times Bayless has played he looked pretty bad. He's not even close to being ready for PG. Not even close. He's pretty clueless. That said, I still like his upside, but he's a couple of years away from making a major contribution.

Same with Batum. He's going to be a keeper, but I see him as our reserve SF of the future. I think we will trade Outlaw and Webster will start with Batum off the bench.
 
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There are only a few time when a player NEEDS to be traded:

1. When they are refusing to play, or purposely not playing their best. (Marbury, and VC respectively).

2. Causing locker room problems (Z-Bo, JR Rider).

3. Not getting along with the coach (Kidd)

4. Hurting the team on the court (a lot of people).

Sergio is not the reason we are losing games, and he isn't established enough for us to get anything for him. He'll turn out to be a hidden gem, possibly even Ginobili caliber in that regard. If anything his minutes should be limited, or Nate put him on a shorter leash, but to deal him at this point would be silly.
 
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