Shaq?

[SportsTicker]

Two season ticket holders on the nj.com forum say they have been told by team officials that Miami has offered Shaquille O'Neal for a package that includes at least Richard Jefferson and Marcus Williams and possibly Jason Collins. Chris Sheridan of ESPN hinted the Heat might offer Shaq to the Nets in an article Thursday...so there is some credibility here.

One said he was told the deal has a 50% chance of succeeding. The Nets are reportedly considering it. They are supposedly fed up with Williams' attitude and conditioning--thus the arrival of "tough love" coach John Lucas.

Shaq is owed $40 million after this year...no team or player opt-outs. Riley is under orders to dump salary and with the team now 8-30, the easiest way is to dump Shaq. RJ and Williams for Shaq does not quite work under the cap, but the addition of another body could make it work...and save Riley a lot of the money he needs to dump. It is POSSIBLE that Collins' rumored involvement represents the Nets' counter offer...but while that would keep the Nets under the tax, it would not help Riley.

The problem of course is money and age. Shaq turns 36 in March and will be 38 at the end of his contract. If the Nets dump Williams, the likelihood of a Kidd extension is high. He would be 37 in two years. And of course, the Nets have Carter, who will be 33 in two years. So in two years, the Nets would have Shaq making $20 million, Kidd around $12 million and Carter $16.3, for a total of $48+ million. Even assuming a luxury tax threshold of $73 million, that would leave $25 million to be spread out over 10 or 11 other players...unless Ratner would be willing to go over the tax threshold. Moreover, of those three contracts, only Carter's would carry over into Brooklyn unless Kidd got a two year deal.

Something to think about.

 

[ghoti]

I thought of this, but Shaq is not worth trading any valuable pieces for.

The Nets simply don't have the junk contracts needed to get to $20M.

I'd gladly send them Carter for him, but they want to cut salary, so they wouldn't take that contract back.

Riley should call the Knicks.

 

[Black Republican]

I'd do it,if they could add Wright(from the heat).

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 18 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought of this, but Shaq is not worth trading any valuable pieces for.</div>

I'm in the same boat, but giving up RJ, Marcus, and Collins seems very appealing. Shaq has lost a step like Vince, but also like Vince can still get it done in the league. Marcus hasn't been anything special so far, and Collins is Collins. We'd be giving up Jefferson but that's all that I feel tied to.

Although by losing Jefferson we'd lose most of our transition play. Sorry Kidd! Hope getting that ring is worth it.

 

[Black Republican]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jan 18 2008, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 18 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought of this, but Shaq is not worth trading any valuable pieces for.</div>

I'm in the same boat, but giving up RJ, Marcus, and Collins seems very appealing. Shaq has lost a step like Vince, but also like Vince can still get it done in the league. Marcus hasn't been anything special so far, and Collins is Collins. We'd be giving up Jefferson but that's all that I feel tied to.

Although by losing Jefferson we'd lose most of our transition play. Sorry Kidd! Hope getting that ring is worth it.
</div>
Bravo!

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Jan 18 2008, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jan 18 2008, 11:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 18 2008, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I thought of this, but Shaq is not worth trading any valuable pieces for.</div>

I'm in the same boat, but giving up RJ, Marcus, and Collins seems very appealing. Shaq has lost a step like Vince, but also like Vince can still get it done in the league. Marcus hasn't been anything special so far, and Collins is Collins. We'd be giving up Jefferson but that's all that I feel tied to.

Although by losing Jefferson we'd lose most of our transition play. Sorry Kidd! Hope getting that ring is worth it.
</div>
Bravo!

</div>

Shaq is a context we weren't discussing before

 

[Joey FistPump]

Shaq's numbers are only gonna get worse in the next two years...he's only averaging 14.3 and 7.9 this year and honestly looks to have lost a step. Josh Boone is averaging 10.5 and 8.7 as a starter and is 12 years younger...Sean is averaging 9 and 6.2 as a starter...why go away from that. WE NEED DEPTH NOT AN OLD BIG MAN.

 

[Lavalamp]

14.3 ppg and 7.9 rpg are pretty average. Though Shaq is still quite efficient with the ball shooting 59% when he gets touches. He also draws double teams very often, and wears down the other team's big men.

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 18 2008, 11:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Two season ticket holders on the nj.com forum say they have been told by team officials that Miami has offered Shaquille O'Neal for a package that includes at least Richard Jefferson and Marcus Williams and possibly Jason Collins. Chris Sheridan of ESPN hinted the Heat might offer Shaq to the Nets in an article Thursday...so there is some credibility here.

One said he was told the deal has a 50% chance of succeeding. The Nets are reportedly considering it. They are supposedly fed up with Williams' attitude and conditioning--thus the arrival of "tough love" coach John Lucas.

Shaq is owed $40 million after this year...no team or player opt-outs. Riley is under orders to dump salary and with the team now 8-30, the easiest way is to dump Shaq. RJ and Williams for Shaq does not quite work under the cap, but the addition of another body could make it work...and save Riley a lot of the money he needs to dump. It is POSSIBLE that Collins' rumored involvement represents the Nets' counter offer...but while that would keep the Nets under the tax, it would not help Riley.

The problem of course is money and age. Shaq turns 36 in March and will be 38 at the end of his contract. If the Nets dump Williams, the likelihood of a Kidd extension is high. He would be 37 in two years. And of course, the Nets have Carter, who will be 33 in two years. So in two years, the Nets would have Shaq making $20 million, Kidd around $12 million and Carter $16.3, for a total of $48+ million. Even assuming a luxury tax threshold of $73 million, that would leave $25 million to be spread out over 10 or 11 other players...unless Ratner would be willing to go over the tax threshold. Moreover, of those three contracts, only Carter's would carry over into Brooklyn unless Kidd got a two year deal.

Something to think about.</div>

Why would the Nets tell ticket holders about potential transactions? Who, exactly, is communicating this information?

 

[ghoti]

Shaq's regular season stats are irrelevant.

If the Nets trade for him, they are banking on him being healthy enough to make a major impact in those short playoff series.

I love that kind of thinking, but giving up RJ and being responsible for another $40M of Shaq's deal is too risky.

The proposed trade would put the franchise in an inescapable financial hole.

 

[GMJ]

But can a Kidd-Jefferson-O'Neal lead team get it done? I think if we're going to throw a hail mary pass that a half court offense can win, you want to maximize it with half-court-oriented players. Yeah we'd owe a lot of money to a small number of players, but for a bunch of you guys wishing that Rod would stop being complacent...this could be it.

 

[Lavalamp]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jan 18 2008, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Shaq's regular season stats are irrelevant.

If the Nets trade for him, they are banking on him being healthy enough to make a major impact in those short playoff series.

I love that kind of thinking, but giving up RJ and being responsible for another $40M of Shaq's deal is too risky.

The proposed trade would put the franchise in an inescapable financial hole.
</div>

Here is the financial numbers

2007-08 season
RJ + Collins + Marcus = 12.2 + 6.1 + 1.2 = 19.5
Shaq = 20

Nets take on additional 500 000 for 07-08 season.

2008-09 season:
RJ + Collins + Marcus = 13.2 + 6.2 + 1.2 = 20.6
Shaq = 20

Nets are under by 600 000 for 08-09 season.

2009-10 season:
RJ + Marcus = 14.2 + 2.1 = 16.3 mill
Shaq = 20

Nets take on an additional 3.7 mill

2010-11 season:
RJ + re-signed Marcus = 15 mill + ??? = ???
Shaq retires or re-signs = 0 or ???

So over the span of Shaq's contract, the Nets would be spending a total of 3.6 mill more. Shaq's been declining pretty quickly I probably wouldn't risk trading for him.

 

[NOMAM]

Nets trade: Marcus, Wright, Boki, Allen, Magloire, Collins, 1st round pick (basically the "bench")

for

Shaq

 

[downunderwonder]

Id only do it if there was a partial buyout option... Legend or not, shaq in his current state is only worth 9-12 mill based on his current production

to be fair it is without a decent point guard though

 

[SportsTicker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (downunderwonder @ Jan 19 2008, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Id only do it if there was a partial buyout option... Legend or not, shaq in his current state is only worth 9-12 mill based on his current production

to be fair it is without a decent point guard though</div>

Shaq has NO buyout option. Not player, not team. JERMAINE O'Neal has a player option which he has said he will exercise. If he did, he is a fool because there is no one going to pay him $42 million--what he is owed after this season--even over five years.

 

[Dark Defender]

Interesting but I doubt it would happen. The part that interested me was that they are getting tired of Marcus Williams.

 

[Charles]

Carter and Magloire for Shaq.

Do it Thron!

 

[Denny Crane]

This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">New Jersey Nets
</span>Incoming Players
<span style="color:#ff0000">Shaquille O'Neal</span>
Salary: $20,000,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 14.5 REB: 8.0 AST: 1.4 PER: 18.91
Outgoing Players: Richard Jefferson, Sean Williams, Jamaal Magloire

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">Miami Heat
</span>Incoming Players
<span style="color:#ff0000">Richard Jefferson</span>
Salary: $12,200,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 23.9 REB: 4.3 AST: 2.8 PER: 18.44
<span style="color:#ff0000">Sean Williams</span>
Salary: $1,416,600 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 7.4 REB: 5.3 AST: 0.5 PER: 16.86
<span style="color:#ff0000">Jamaal Magloire</span>
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 1.9 REB: 3.6 AST: 0.3 PER: 2.05
Outgoing Players: Shaquille O'Neal

 

[Black Republican]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Jan 19 2008, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This Trade Succeeded! Go back to adjust your trade or start over.

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">New Jersey Nets
</span>Incoming Players
<span style="color:#ff0000">Shaquille O'Neal</span>
Salary: $20,000,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 14.5 REB: 8.0 AST: 1.4 PER: 18.91
Outgoing Players: Richard Jefferson, Sean Williams, Jamaal Magloire

<span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%">Miami Heat
</span>Incoming Players
<span style="color:#ff0000">Richard Jefferson</span>
Salary: $12,200,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 23.9 REB: 4.3 AST: 2.8 PER: 18.44
<span style="color:#ff0000">Sean Williams</span>
Salary: $1,416,600 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 7.4 REB: 5.3 AST: 0.5 PER: 16.86
<span style="color:#ff0000">Jamaal Magloire</span>
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 1.9 REB: 3.6 AST: 0.3 PER: 2.05
Outgoing Players: Shaquille O'Neal</div>
I like it,but i'd rather put collins in .And use Mag to get a shooter.

 

[Universe]

Well I could see this happening if we wanted a fresh start going into Brooklyn.

I'm so-so on getting Shaq.

 

[Jizzy]

on a message forum? not beleiving it. I'd defintely do this tho. Shaq gives us instant credibility and he's playing well of late.

 

[GMJ]

Wouldn't trade Jefferson and Sean for Shaq; I think that's sacrificing too much of our future. Giving up on Marcus is enough for me.

 

[Black Republican]

I know, Diesel loves VC.I think Shaq can still be dominant, make that happen Thorn.

 

[Lavalamp]

I actually think the Nets would have a good chance of a title shot with Shaq.


Then if they could manage a trade involving any of these Magloire, 1st round pick, Boki or Wright and cash, and get a decent starting SF they would be set. Maybe Magloire + Boki+ 1st rounder for Mike Miller. Gives Memphis cap relief, a pick, and a fairly young player.

PG: Kidd
SG: Vince
SF: Mike Miller/Wright
PF: Sean Williams/Krstic
C: Shaq/Boone

That would be a tough matchup for Boston (who lacks big men depth), and Shaq will get Perkins/Scott Pollard into foul trouble.

 

[logik15]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Jan 19 2008, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I know, Diesel loves VC.I think Shaq can still be dominant, make that happen Thorn.

</div>

I agree... lets face it we aren't going to get anywhere with our current lineup and marcus still needs a lot of conditioning looking at his defense. A lot of teams have point guards that can just blow by him. Getting Shaq would change the look of our lineup completely and we'd be more recognized as a half court set team rather than a little of both. At least it gives us more of an identity to the way we'll play. We always wanted that dominant big man... and here's our chance.

 

[SportsTicker]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 19 2008, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>on a message forum? not beleiving it. I'd defintely do this tho. Shaq gives us instant credibility and he's playing well of late.</div>

What does "instant credibility" mean? Does it mean wins? Does it mean even rebounds? In the last month, Boone has outrebounded Shaq and in their face to face, he outplayed the big fella. If Shaq had only one year beyond this, I would consider it, but in two years, assuming a Kidd extension, you would finish the season with a 37-year-old point guard, a 38-year-old center, a 33-year-old shooting guard making a total of $48 million. NO GM in his right mind, not even one who drafted Skita and Nene over Amare, and then gave KMart and Nene $150 million, is going to do that.

 

[downunderwonder]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 19 2008, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>[
What does "instant credibility" mean? Does it mean wins? Does it mean even rebounds? In the last month, Boone has outrebounded Shaq and in their face to face, he outplayed the big fella. If Shaq had only one year beyond this, I would consider it, but in two years, assuming a Kidd extension, you would finish the season with a 37-year-old point guard, a 38-year-old center, a 33-year-old shooting guard making a total of $48 million. NO GM in his right mind, not even one who drafted Skita and Nene over Amare, and then gave KMart and Nene $150 million, is going to do that.</div>

Um... Babcock, Isiah... oh yeah my bad you said "GM" not "idiot who just because he wears a suit thinks he's a genius" My bad, a common misconception on my part... hahahaha

 

[Black Republican]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jan 19 2008, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy @ Jan 19 2008, 01:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>on a message forum? not beleiving it. I'd defintely do this tho. Shaq gives us instant credibility and he's playing well of late.</div>

What does "instant credibility" mean? Does it mean wins? Does it mean even rebounds? In the last month, Boone has outrebounded Shaq and in their face to face, he outplayed the big fella. If Shaq had only one year beyond this, I would consider it, but in two years, assuming a Kidd extension, you would finish the season with a 37-year-old point guard, a 38-year-old center, a 33-year-old shooting guard making a total of $48 million. NO GM in his right mind, not even one who drafted Skita and Nene over Amare, and then gave KMart and Nene $150 million, is going to do that.
</div>
Stop puttin' Shaq and boone in the same sentence.

 

[Netted]

Carter, Magloire, Collins, and Marcus for Shaq, Dorell, and Smush.

Gives Riley some cap relief (Magloire), help for Wade (Carter), a PG for the future (Marcus), and an expiring contract to trade over the summer (Collins).

Nets keep some youth (Jefferson & Dorell), have another option at PG (Parker), and get the big fella.

This is a nice lineup:

PG: Kidd, Parker, Armstrong
SG: Dorell, Antoine
SF: Jefferson, Nachbar
PF: Boone, Williams, Allen
C: Shaq, Krstic

Little thin at SG, but we are now too. Still athletic which works to Kidd's strength and now the half court game centers around Shaq down low instead of Carter from 35 feet away.

 

[downunderwonder]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jan 19 2008, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Carter, Magloire, Collins, and Marcus for Shaq, Dorell, and Smush.

Gives Riley some cap relief (Magloire), help for Wade (Carter), a PG for the future (Marcus), and an expiring contract to trade over the summer (Collins).

Nets keep some youth (Jefferson & Dorell), have another option at PG (Parker), and get the big fella.

This is a nice lineup:

PG: Kidd, Parker, Armstrong
SG: Dorell, Antoine
SF: Jefferson, Nachbar
PF: Boone, Williams, Allen
C: Shaq, Krstic

Little thin at SG, but we are now too. Still athletic which works to Kidd's strength and now the half court game centers around Shaq down low instead of Carter from 35 feet away.</div>

That trade I like more than the Sean Williams trade but why on earth would Reilly do this trade without a first rounder? I mean one could argue that Parker and Dorell are better players than Magloire and Collins.

Honestly if Shaq comes to the nets (which I doubt will ever happen. Its at about the same odds as me starting at sg for the 2009-2010 season) we will get raped in the Trade. Fact.