Shareef: "I dont want to be a Net"

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<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">umm maybe because i'm inside a new jersey forum?

Ranked in order of average home attendance:

1 Detroit 22,076
2 Dallas 20,032
3 Chicago 19,977
4 Miami 19,856
5 New York 19,505
6 Cleveland 18,981
7 Utah 18,841
8 LA Lakers 18,812
9 San Antonio 18,278
10 Philadelphia 17,710
11 Phoenix 17,609
12 Denver 17,500
13 Sacramento 17,317
14 Minnesota 17,177
15 Toronto 17,081
16 Washington 17,063
17 LA Clippers 16,807
18 Indiana 16,806
19 Memphis 16,753
20 Seattle 16,426
21 Portland 16,415
22 Golden State 16,083
23 Houston 15,977
24 Boston 15,756
25 Milwaukee 15,597
26 New Jersey 14,841
27 Orlando 14,533
28 Charlotte 14,475
29 Atlanta 14,234
30 New Orleans 14,092

BTW, do people in the STATE of New Jersey pay attention to their own franchice?</div>
no we dont thats why there moving to brooklyn
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">umm maybe because i'm inside a new jersey forum?

Ranked in order of average home attendance:

1 Detroit 22,076
2 Dallas 20,032
3 Chicago 19,977
4 Miami 19,856
5 New York 19,505
6 Cleveland 18,981
7 Utah 18,841
8 LA Lakers 18,812
9 San Antonio 18,278
10 Philadelphia 17,710
11 Phoenix 17,609
12 Denver 17,500
13 Sacramento 17,317
14 Minnesota 17,177
15 Toronto 17,081
16 Washington 17,063
17 LA Clippers 16,807
18 Indiana 16,806
19 Memphis 16,753
20 Seattle 16,426
21 Portland 16,415
22 Golden State 16,083
23 Houston 15,977
24 Boston 15,756
25 Milwaukee 15,597
26 New Jersey 14,841
27 Orlando 14,533
28 Charlotte 14,475
29 Atlanta 14,234
30 New Orleans 14,092

BTW, do people in the STATE of New Jersey pay attention to their own franchice?</div>

Wat does that attendence have to do with Kidd as a player
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">Btw, i wasn't wrong. Kidd is not the #2 best PG in the NBA.</div>

Can you explain why you think this?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">Btw, i wasn't wrong. Kidd is not the #2 best PG in the NBA.</div>
yea ur rite hes #1 no way u look @ it hes either 1 or 2 ur just retarted(btw i dont care ban me i have to say it)
 
Everyone Keep the Name calling out of your post, you can discuss and debate without name calling- Henacy JBB Mod

Makeoutcity, you say New Jersey is overatted, I can live with that opinion due to the fact our frontcourt is weak. And no matter how good your perimeter is you cant be a legit contender without a legit frontcourt, so I can respect.

You say Richard Jeferson is overatted, hmmm..is he on a Tracy Mcgrady type leve?l no your right. But name 10 better small forwards in the league right now then RJ? He is a jumpshot away from being a consistent all-star in this league. He is one of the best rebounding wing players in this league. He is solid defensively. And is becoming a playmaker from the 3 spot, which he has shown more and more in the last season & a half. So in what aspect is he overatted?

As far as the Atlantic division goes every team has their share of problems & questions going into the season. You have PP playing with a bunch of kids down there in Boston. And no legitimate veteran help...Paul maybe screaming by all-star break just to get out of there.

New York is trying to gel two big egos & personalities together with Marbury & Coach Brown. Plus they have two other ball hungry players in Crawford & Richard playing alongside Marbury. Then you follow that up with the fact that they have a bench which still includes some very high proced washups in Penny,Thomas, Houston and they have a problems for days....

Philly has to get AI to actualy involve Chris Webber this season....Toronto has some nice role pieces but no real go to guy in their lineup. So like I said every team in this Atlantic has questions to answer
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting thedude9990:</div><div class="quote_post">yea ur rite hes #1 no way u look @ it hes either 1 or 2 ur just retarted(btw i dont care ban me i have to say it)</div>

no, i'm not going to ban you...you know why? because ur wrong...#1 - Nash, #2 - Billups...both led their teams to the finals (except for Phoenix). Kidd is not #2, you wish he were in the top 5. you're just going to have to accept that.
 
haha, i dont know whats funnier you thinkin you know better or the fact that you think you can ban him
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">no, i'm not going to ban you...you know why? because ur wrong...#1 - Nash, #2 - Billups...both led their teams to the finals (except for Phoenix). Kidd is not #2, you wish he were in the top 5. you're just going to have to accept that.</div>

Explain why you don't think Kidd is a top 5 point guard.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Everyone Keep the Name calling out of your post, you can discuss and debate without name calling- Henacy JBB Mod

Makeoutcity, you say New Jersey is overatted, I can live with that opinion due to the fact our frontcourt is weak. And no matter how good your perimeter is you cant be a legit contender without a legit frontcourt, so I can respect.

You say Richard Jeferson is overatted, hmmm..is he on a Tracy Mcgrady type level no your right. But name 10 better small forwards in the league right now then RJ? He is a jumpshot away from being a consistent all-star in this league. He is one of the best rebounding wing players in this league. He is solid defensively. And is becoming a playmaker from the 3 spot, which he has shown more and more in the last season & a half. So in what aspect is he overatted?

As far as the Atlantic division goes every team has their share of problems & questions going into the season. You have PP playing with a bunch of kids down there in Boston. And no legitimate veteran help...Paul maybe screaming by all-star break just to get out of there.

New York is trying to gel two big egos & personalities together with Marbury & Coach Brown. Plus they have two other ball hungry players in Crawford & Richard playing alongside Marbury. Then you follow that up with the fact that they have a bench which still includes some very high proced washups in Penny,Thomas, Houston and they have a problems for days....

Philly has to get AI to actualy involve Chris Webber this season....Toronto has some nice role pieces but no real go to guy in their lineup. So like I said every team in this Atlantic has questions to answer</div>


yes, you're right. RJ is a decent player...but how about giving players like Jalen Rose some recognition...or how about? it's almost as if RJ is being compared to players like Artest, J. Rose, Bruce Bowen (who are actually consistent)...I'll admit it...Toronto has never been on track ever since they were beaten by the Sixers in the semi-finals in 2002..and since, has been on a rebuilding process every year, which seems very unttractive for nba players...but so has New Jersey.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Explain why you don't think Kidd is a top 5 point guard.</div>

dude, I feel he didn't play as well as any of these other PG's did...he had a dissapointing year, while these other PG's actually took their teams to the deepend of the playoffs. i'm not bad mouthing Kidd, I'm just saying he's been off...and definitely does not deserve recognition as top 5 PG of last season.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">dude, I feel he didn't play as well as any of these other PG's did...he had a dissapointing year, while these other PG's actually took their teams to the deepend of the playoffs. i'm not bad mouthing Kidd, I'm just saying he's been off...and definitely does not deserve recognition as top 5 PG of last season.</div>

He played better than most healthy PG. None of the Players you mentiioned took their teams fartherinto the playoffs besides Billups and Nash.
 
Just to answer some of the stuff that has been said in this thread. One New Jerseys attendance is so low, because relatively they have one of the oldest stadiums in the league it offers very few features/comforts to the fans who go to the games, and is in a horrible location. The attendance numbers are really far from the truth when it comes to the number of fans that follow that team. I know this, because I lived in NJ for a couple years. Also someone said ? no one follows them that's why were moving to Brooklyn? it?s hard to tell if that was a sarcastic post from a computer screen, but in case it wasn?t that is not the case once so ever. The case is that Jay Z and the ownership group who bought the Nets are business people, and realize the location of Brooklyn will bring more money into their pockets then ?The Swamp?. Also Jay is from Brooklyn (as everyone knows) so he wants to contribute something back to the community by bringing them a NBA organization.

MakeOutCity as you stated Billups and Nash are two elite point guards in the league, but personally I would rank Billups behind Kidd still not by much but by a little. I am not a Nets fan either so you know this is non-bias. The reason behind my thinking is that if you watch Jason Kidd play he is the ideal point guard he not only runs the offense well, but he puts his teammates in the best situation to succeed. Ask people such as Kenyon Martin, a great player, but he never new how hard it was to score on his own until this season in Denver. Jason would always find him open down low or on the break getting him a lot of points, but now in Denver Andre Miller does not do that as much.


Edit: By the way you are correct if you say he was not one of the top five best point guards in the league ?last season?, but if you look at what he has done when he has been healthy he is.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MAKEOUTCITY:</div><div class="quote_post">dude, I feel he didn't play as well as any of these other PG's did...he had a dissapointing year, while these other PG's actually took their teams to the deepend of the playoffs. i'm not bad mouthing Kidd, I'm just saying he's been off...and definitely does not deserve recognition as top 5 PG of last season.</div>

Being off last season becuase he wasn't 100% doesn't mean hes going to be off this coming season. All the point guards you named did not take their teams deep into the playoffs.

AI-lost 1st round
Marbury- didn't make it
Francis- didn't make it
Hinrich- Duhon was starting point guard
rolleyes.gif

Palacio-
laugh.gif


The players I named did not get their teams farther than Kidd took the Nets in the playoffs.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Being off last season becuase he wasn't 100% doesn't mean hes going to be off this coming season. All the point guards you named did not take their teams deep into the playoffs.

AI-lost 1st round
Marbury- didn't make it
Francis- didn't make it
Hinrich- Duhon was starting point guard
rolleyes.gif

Palacio-
laugh.gif


The players I named did not get their teams farther than Kidd took the Nets in the playoffs.</div>

Thats exactly what i mean. He only mentioned Nash and Billups that went farther in the playoffs.
 
Makeoutcity, Jalen Rose is a cat I got love for but you and I both know he is not consistent. And he is a me first player, who has a tendancy to put himself beforw team goals...that is why his stay in alot of spot like Indy etc always end badly. He isnt better than RJ. Brue Bowen defensively of course he is better...but in what other aspect is he better...I'll give you spot up shooter as well. But Bowen isnt even a true shooter, he can realistically only shoot from one spot on the court. Ron Artest when focused is the only person you mentioned that is a better all-around player than RJ.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker14:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, and somehting like that won't help you either.</div>

I was pointing out the fact that Ignignot did forget to mention Vince Carter in the lineup, and he himself admitted that will void half his argument.

But you? You were stating that the Nets are flat out the best team in the Atlantic without giving any supporting arguments.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">no, i'm not going to ban you...you know why? because ur wrong...#1 - Nash, #2 - Billups...both led their teams to the finals (except for Phoenix). Kidd is not #2, you wish he were in the top 5. you're just going to have to accept that.</div>

WHat did Kidd do for two or three years straight? Lead the Nets to the finals correct? Just wanted to clear that up 4 ya. By the way, you can't ban anyone. Since when was Nash in the finals? Apparently I was watching the wrong playoffs right?
 
Also, you have to take into account that the Nets play in the middle of nowhere, so its hard for the working people to be able to get out to the Airlines Arena for a 7:00-7:30 start every night. So the Nets cant bring back the consistent type of attendance & fan base that a team like the Knicks who are located in the middle of downtown New York on 34th street. And there is like a thousand different methods of getting to the game. If you dont drive to the Airlines Arena, it is vitrually no other way to get there, that is quick & convient.
 
I didn't even bother reading MAKEOUTCITY's post because he obviously doesn't understand basketball outside of flashy scoring and dunks... Marbury, Francis in the top 5? That's pathetic. utterly pathetic.

The List should look like this more or less
Kidd
Nash
Baron
Bibby
Arenas/Cassell (when healthy)
Chauncey Billups
Hinrich
Marbury
Tony Parker
Andre Miller

Push everyone down one if you consider Iverson a point gaurd. He's not the #1 point gaurd per say, but he's the best player out of the bunch. Kidd has the best point gaurd skills but it's undeniable that Iverson is the better player at point gaurd.. However, I rather start a team with Jason than Iverson.

Mike James doesn't even start on his own team and he's top 10? Francis doesn't even play point gaurd anymore and when he does he turns it over and doesnt get his teammates involved. I would take all those players even Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Jamaal Tinsley, Shaun Livingston, Telfair over him. He's a cancer and makes teams lose. That's the truth.

Anyone who's watched basketball...even people who call Kidd a wifebeater say he's atleast top 2 pointgaurd in the NBA. I will go to each forum and ask for the top 5 point gaurds and I garuntee you 99%, if not 100% will say Kidd is atleast top 2. Now that is a horrible opinion.
 
Shareef Staying In New Jersey

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NY Post - Upset by the Nets' handling of medical concerns that arose in his physical ? Shareef Abdur-Rahim said that he no longer wanted to join the franchise, but the team is expected to announce on Monday that it is going through with the deal.

Abdur-Rahim was courted heavily by the Nets, but was disillusioned by the team's last-second decision to seek additional medical opinions about scar tissue in his right knee.

When his feelings were published in yesterday's Post, Nets star Jason Kidd, coach Lawrence Frank and Thorn called Abdur-Rahim to rebuild the relationship, sources told The Post.

"Shareef is a good guy, and No. 1, he's a professional," said Thorn. "I understand there's some anxiety and trepidation when the possibility of not ending up with the team you chose arises. We feel we have all the information we need to make a decision within the next day or two."

The Nets have reason to be cautious since they are investing six years and $38 million in the deal. They sent copies of his MRI to three leading orthopedic surgeons and now must decide if they want to complete a sign-and-trade deal with the Trail Blazers.</div>
Source
 
I enjoy reading this thread because it's funny to see someone making arguements that Kidd isn't a top 5 PG and that Milt Palacio is a good PG.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Makeoutcity, Jalen Rose is a cat I got love for but you and I both know he is not consistent. And he is a me first player, who has a tendancy to put himself beforw team goals...that is why his stay in alot of spot like Indy etc always end badly. He isnt better than RJ. Brue Bowen defensively of course he is better...but in what other aspect is he better...I'll give you spot up shooter as well. But Bowen isnt even a true shooter, he can realistically only shoot from one spot on the court. Ron Artest when focused is the only person you mentioned that is a better all-around player than RJ.</div>

Kind of going off topic here, but Jalen isn't really a "me first" player anymore. Since he's came to Toronto, he's the guy that's mad the most when the team loses. He'll be happy if he scores 10 and the wins, rather than dropping 24 and have the team lose. You never see him all fun and smiles after games that the Raptors lose. And he is pretty consistent defensively and offensively; defense- he always sucks, offense- he puts the ball in the basket when given touches. Just had to get that out there.
 
nextlevelgame, perhaps you can explain to me how Arenas, Hinrich and Bibby are better point guards than Marbury. I accept the fact that Marbury is not on Kidd's level, and although I don't necessarily agree with some of the other choices such as Baron Davis, I let it slide.

Arenas: He's not that much of a point guard and certainly not as good as Marbury. For every 5 assists he dishes out, he turns the ball over 3 times. His shot selection is not too great, either.

Hinrich: May you explain this pick?

Bibby: Close, but doesn't cut the cake. Marbury is simply a better point guard than him.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">nextlevelgame, perhaps you can explain to me how Arenas, Hinrich and Bibby are better point guards than Marbury. I accept the fact that Marbury is not on Kidd's level, and although I don't necessarily agree with some of the other choices such as Baron Davis, I let it slide.

Arenas: He's not that much of a point guard and certainly not as good as Marbury. For every 5 assists he dishes out, he turns the ball over 3 times. His shot selection is not too great, either.

Hinrich: May you explain this pick?

Bibby: Close, but doesn't cut the cake. Marbury is simply a better point guard than him.</div> Isn't marbury not even a point guard anymore?
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't marbury not even a point guard anymore?</div>


Well next season he wont be but he was last season PG.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't marbury not even a point guard anymore?</div>
Considering this is from last season when he played point guard, I think it does matter.
 
Are we dscussing whos the best point guards. Or who were the best point guards from LAST SEASON? If its best point guards in general I would have to rank Baron Davis in front of Marbury.
 
Mr. J, I am sorry for such a tardy reply but I just got back from my vacation.

I'd take Arenas over Marbury purely on his talent level alone. He doesn't put up the numbers Marbury does, but he plays more efficiently than Marbury. I factor Arenas' high turn overs because it takes a long time for a team to work out the kinks of the Princeton offense. A lot players not rolling to where they are supposed to be, Arenas not understanding his options, etc.. Not even that, Arenas is a better winner as of late and Marbury has done nothing to help his team and barely achieve mediocrity.

I choose Hinrich over Marbury because his game is easier malleable than Marbury. It seems as if you're coaching Stephon you have to revolve your offense around screen rolls and penetration and dishes.. With Hinrich, you can do that and much more. Also factor in that Hinrich is already a better defender and can play two positions. Sure, Stephon can play some 2, but Hinrich started at two for the majority of last season... But the fact that Hinrich is such a more complete player as well as a smarter player, I have to choose him over Stephon.

Bibby, I'd easily take over Stephon any day of the week. The other two I can see arguements being made, but Bibby is a top five point gaurd in my opinion. He's a better winner, smarter player, and is just as good at playmaking if not better. Sure Stephon might be the better scorer but it has never got him anywhere in his career. Bibby, on the other hand makes something with his team. I understand the refute would be that the Kings had Webber, Peja, Vlade, Miller, and Christie, but in my opinion, if you stuck Bibby with Amare, Marion, Johnson for the majority he wouldn't have bombed or been traded like Marbury was.

I just have no confidence with Stephon. I've been waiting patiently for him to bloom as a winner since he entered the league... and nothing. I rooted for him even when he was driven out of Jersey and now I just see him as a disappointment. Maybe it's jaded my vision on how good Marbury is, but you cannot explain to me how a player of his calibar can be great with a 33-49 season. And it is not like he had talent around him, he had plenty of it... He just does not elevate his teammates like other players do. Larry Hughes and Antawn Jamison were career losers but all of the sudden looked like All stars when Gilbert finally took control. Eddy Curry finally looked like a reliable offensive force with Hinrich and Bibby carried the Kings after the Webber trade even when it looked like he had nothing left in him and Peja did absolutely nothing last season. These guys are winners and Marbury is more content with his stats and claiming he's the best point gaurd in the league before worrying about his team. I gaurantee you Marbury will not end his career a Knick he'll be traded again and again each team thinking that he's an elite point gaurd based on stats alone..only learning that he's a chronic loser who can't play a very good team game.
 
Career wise, I would say that Kidd is the best pointguard currently in the league. I don't think that anyone can really question that. I guess you could bring in Chauncy Billups, but he didn't really carry his team like Kidd has.

As of now, I'm not sure how good Kidd will be. Kidd seemed a little slow during playoffs, but I think he has recovered decently considering the injury, if his rehabbing goes well during the summer and he becomes 80+ % of the player he was ... then he is still be a top 2 pg in the league, probably #2. Otherwise then you can debate other guys like Billups, Bibby, Hinrich, Davis, Arenas, and that is about it.

On a side note:
I'm wondering if Milt will start in the 05-06 season, he does after all have a higher career FG% than New Jersey's last year's starter.
biggrin.gif
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Peja did absolutely nothing last season.</div>He averaged 20ppg.Had to correct...
 
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