Politics Should 11-year-old girls have to bear their rapists' babies? Ohio says yes.

[MARIS61]

“…human weeds,’ ‘reckless breeders,’ ‘spawning… human beings who never should have been born.” Margaret Sanger, Pivot of Civilization, referring to immigrants, African Americans and poor people.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[H.C.]

No, that's more like manunjustifiedcontemptuousdismissing.

It's not a good look.

barfo

I agree.
But it's also not a good look to dismiss others simply because they won't 'fall in line'.
Which is something that poster does constantly.

Two wrongs don't make a right. So I shouldn't fall for the bait/troll.
But I'm not perfect. Never claimed to be.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

If one murders a pregant woman, is it one or two deaths?

 

[riverman]

If one murders a pregant woman, is it one or two deaths?

your lawyer should be able to provide you with this answer ..you didn't waste your phone call?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

your lawyer should be able to provide you with this answer ..you didn't waste your phone call?

MICHAEL COHEN IS MY LAWYER

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

OK,like you kick a pregnant woman and the "ZYGOTE" dies. Is that assault or murder?

 

[Lanny]

If one murders a pregant woman, is it one or two deaths?

Depends on how far along the pregnancy is.

 

[Lanny]

OK,like you kick a pregnant woman and the "ZYGOTE" dies. Is that assault or murder?

Depends on what happens to the mother. If she dies it's murder.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Depends on what happens to the mother. If she dies it's murder.

Mother is unharmed, other than a bruise and slight pain.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Depends on how far along the pregnancy is.

What point in the pregnancy would it be murder/manslaughter and when would it just be a simple assault?

 

[Lanny]

Mother is unharmed, other than a bruise and slight pain.

There's your answer.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

There's your answer.

So simple assault. No additional charges for killing the fetus.

As long as you stay consistent.

 

[Lanny]

So simple assault. No additional charges for killing the fetus.

As long as you stay consistent.

I didn't say no additional charges for killing a fetus. Your question had to do with murder charges.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I didn't say no additional charges for killing a fetus. Your question had to do with murder charges.

What charges would you propose be made in such an instance?

No bodily harm, since the mass of cells isn't a permanent part of the woman's body? Its much like if you kicked someone in the stomach and she shit on the ground.

 

[Lanny]

What charges would you propose be made in such an instance?

No bodily harm, since the mass of cells isn't a permanent part of the woman's body? Its much like if you kicked someone in the stomach and she shit on the ground.

I don't know off hand but it's been dealt with in court before.

 

[Minstrel]

No bodily harm, since the mass of cells isn't a permanent part of the woman's body? Its much like if you kicked someone in the stomach and she shit on the ground.

It's not an issue of "either a fetus is always highly valued or else it never is." It's part of a woman's body, until delivery, so it's up to her what it means to her. If this theoretical woman was on her way to get an abortion when she was assaulted, she could always choose to have charges dropped. But if she wanted her pregnancy to proceed to term, then that mass of cells is highly valuable to her. Maybe it shouldn't be a murder charge--maybe we need a separate charge of harming/murdering a fetus.

And no, that wouldn't open up abortion doctors for such a charge. Like anything else, consent matters. If you go and chop off someone's arm on the street without their consent, you'll be charged. If a doctor operates to remove a person's arm, with that person's consent, they're not charged.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

It's not an issue of "either a fetus is always highly valued or else it never is." It's part of a woman's body, until delivery, so it's up to her what it means to her. If this theoretical woman was on her way to get an abortion when she was assaulted, she could always choose to have charges dropped. But if she wanted her pregnancy to proceed to term, then that mass of cells is highly valuable to her. Maybe it shouldn't be a murder charge--maybe we need a separate charge of harming/murdering a fetus.

And no, that wouldn't open up abortion doctors for such a charge. Like anything else, consent matters. If you go and chop off someone's arm on the street without their consent, you'll be charged. If a doctor operates to remove a person's arm, with that person's consent, they're not charged.

Its either life or a mass of cells that can't survive on its own. None of this "what it means to her" BS. Legal definition. The mass is transitory, so destroying it won't have any lasting effects on the body.

Its either/or.

choose a side.

 

[Minstrel]

Its either life or a mass of cells that can't survive on its own. None of this "what it means to her" BS. Legal definition. The mass is transitory, so destroying it won't have any lasting effects on the body.

Its either/or.

Afraid not. If you destroy a part of another person's body, it's not up to you determine the value. If they choose to destroy a part of their own body, it definitely is up to them to decide.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Afraid not. If you destroy a part of another person's body, it's not up to you determine the value. If they choose to destroy a part of their own body, it definitely is up to them to decide.

The laws determines the value. And it should be consistent, and not dependent on how the woman decides to feel that day.

And it does not "destroy" the body. Its a mass of cells there temporarily. Once its gone, its gone and no ill effects.

 

[Minstrel]

The laws determines the value.

Agreed, and the law should make harming/killing a fetus without consent a crime with a large penalty. Which is consistent with almost every law against harm--it isn't considered harm if consent was given. If consent wasn't given, then you've run afoul of the law. Go back and reference my example of hacking some dude's arm off on the street versus a doctor performing an operation to remove an arm. Consent matters.

 

[riverman]

Once its gone, its gone and no ill effects.

sometimes they move back into the basement

 

[riverman]

No bodily harm, since the mass of cells isn't a permanent part of the woman's body?

who are you calling a mass of cells? there are nerds here who've never been near any part of a woman's body so I guess that'd make them a mass of cells....would make a great band name!

 

[Orion Bailey]

If one murders a pregant woman, is it one or two deaths?

Mass murderer.

 

[MarAzul]

Depends on what happens to the mother. If she dies it's murder.

I don't think you appreciate the gravity of the situation. Like it depends on who is answering the question @EL PRESIDENTE ask.
Let me ask it another way.
If you kick my pregnant wife and she loses the baby, can you accurately estimate your expected life span?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If you kick my pregnant wife and she loses the baby, can you accurately estimate your expected life span?

I don't think you have to worry about getting your wife pregnant.

But if it happens I'm selling the story to the National Enquirer.

No worries, I'll give you a cut of the cash.

 

[MarAzul]

I don't think you have to worry about getting your wife pregnant.

Very reassuring Sly. But the thought is the same.

 

[CupWizier]

I don't think you appreciate the gravity of the situation. Like it depends on who is answering the question @EL PRESIDENTE ask.
Let me ask it another way.
If you kick my pregnant wife and she loses the baby, can you accurately estimate your expected life span?

No, can you?

 

[MarAzul]

No

One clue. It is not a math question.

 

[CupWizier]

One clue. It is not a math question.

Another clue. I never suggested or insinuated it was. Now, please answer the question. Can you?