Should the Blazers resign Zach Collins?

[wizenheimer]

True, but that's why I put it in the context of what Zach's doctors and the team's doctors are saying. It's easy for folks on a message board to offer uninformed opinions as to what the team should do. Olshey has to make his decisions based on hard information and is accountable to Jody Allen for his decisions. Failing to make an offer to Zach, only to see him recover and flourish on a new team in a year or so, or conversely offering him a contract and having Zach never able to play again, have considerably more impact on the team and Olshey's future than we experience for our half-assed opinions.

after the initial surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a revision surgery in 4 months

after the 1st revision surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a 2nd revision surgery in 6 months

at this point, I'm guessing the doctor don't really have any clue how Zach's ankle is going to react to 3 surgeries in 10 months

 

[Fairly-Hard]

We should sign him to an incentive contract.

1000 StormX for every basket made
2000 StormX for every assist
3000 StormX for every block

They could pay him in Bit coin I guess?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

after the initial surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a revision surgery in 4 months

after the 1st revision surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a 2nd revision surgery in 6 months

at this point, I'm guessing the doctor don't really have any clue how Zach's ankle is going to react to 3 surgeries in 10 months

Something tells me you are right. At least no doctor would tell you they know for sure.

 

[e_blazer]

after the initial surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a revision surgery in 4 months

after the 1st revision surgery, I doubt if the doctors were saying he'd need a 2nd revision surgery in 6 months

at this point, I'm guessing the doctor don't really have any clue how Zach's ankle is going to react to 3 surgeries in 10 months

Yup.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

trouble is, for every Ilgauskas there are dozens of Same Bowie's, Greg Oden's & Festus Ezeli's

Sam Bowie had a solid 3-year run with the Nets ages 28-30. Ezeli and Oden’s knees were their main issue, not their feet.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

True, but that's why I put it in the context of what Zach's doctors and the team's doctors are saying. It's easy for folks on a message board to offer uninformed opinions as to what the team should do. Olshey has to make his decisions based on hard information and is accountable to Jody Allen for his decisions. Failing to make an offer to Zach, only to see him recover and flourish on a new team in a year or so, or conversely offering him a contract and having Zach never able to play again, have considerably more impact on the team and Olshey's future than we experience for our half-assed opinions.

The doctors never thought he'd need three surgeries on the same broken bone.

If he becomes a star on another team then you live with it. History has shown us that's beyond rare. The likely scenario is he is a replacement level player or worse. Go with the odds, not a fear of some long shot upside happening with another team.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

A different context:
What is the percent chance that Zach will heal from his latest surgury, and return 90+%, and make a valuable contribution to the team THIS upcoming season?

If you think the number is 60% or higher, you probably give his the QO.
If you think the number is 30% or lower, you definitely do not.
If you think the number is 15% or lower, you probably don't give him a contract at all.

I'm in the somewhere between 15% and 30%, so I see if he wants vet. min. (and I consider myself optimistic!)

You can't just look at him like a stock that you pay x dollars and hope for y return.

The problem is there will be more beyond the cost than dollars. A roster spot is one. The game minutes on the court when he does return, similar to Hood last year, which could hurt the teams wins. He will be rusty in the best case. The time coaches and staff have to devote to developing him instead of helping Lillard contend.

I don't see the meager payoff as worth all the risk and costs, including non monetary costs.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know he'd have a no trade clause, but you work that out with his agent beforehand. Is he going to get 7 million this year in free agency? No. So why woudn't he accept being a trade chip and hitting free agency next season? Plus, he'd be trade eligible immediately. If we sign re-sign Kanter, we can't trade him until mid Decemeber.

I dont see the point, just sign Kanter and he can be traded without shady possibly against the rules agreements. Plus you dont have to worry that someone could change their mind. Or sign none of them and have luxury tax flexibility.

The CBA reduced salary matching rules so it's not that difficult to match salaries.

If we are bringing in a star in a trade we will need to include a starter, so Zach wouldn't help there.

 

[RR7]

I dont see the point, just sign Kanter and he can be traded without shady possibly against the rules agreements. Plus you dont have to worry that someone could change their mind on. Or sign none of them and have luxury tax flexibility.

The CBA reduced salary matching rules so it's not that difficult to match salaries.

If we are bringing in a star in a trade we will need to include a starter.

There's nothing against the rules of telling a player you're likely to be traded, but this way, you get more $$ this year. I feel pretty confident that was the agreement with Hood opting out and signing a big deal. Pretty sure Meyers knew he wasn't a 10 million a year guy, but Miami wanted him as a trade chip.

Like I said, with Kanter, we have to wait until December 15th. You ideally want a deal done before training camp to have all of th eguys together instead of a mid season planned swap.
With salary matching, it's still 125%. If we sign Zach, he and DJJ get us to 20. If Zach walks, and we make other free agent deals, we could only trade DJJ as a mid sized salary, which is bringing back about 12 million in salary. I'd much prefer the larger matching ability.

 

[blazedanugz]

A friend of mine said he apparently broke it falling at a bar downtown and the bar put it on its IG then took it off.
My eyes did not see that though

 

[e_blazer]

The doctors never thought he'd need three surgeries on the same broken bone.

If he becomes a star on another team then you live with it. History has shown us that's beyond rare. The likely scenario is he is a replacement level player or worse. Go with the odds, not a fear of some long shot upside happening with another team.

I absolutely agree that you go with the odds, but any smart gambler does what they can to play the odds to their best advantage. In this case, it’s getting as much medical advice as possible and then making the call.

 

[James lamphear]

The doctor going tell oshey how long he probably be out for and that olshey can make the decision what he going to do. I don't much he worth but I believe if doctor said he probably ready to start activity by January then I think olshey keeps him. Players get hurt in this league sometime it's minor and some are major but if a player can come in reasonable amount of time and believe he can help down then you signed that player and if not then cut ties.

 

[e_blazer]

The doctor going tell oshey how long he probably be out for and that olshey can make the decision what he going to do. I don't much he worth but I believe if doctor said he probably ready to start activity by January then I think olshey keeps him. Players get hurt in this league sometime it's minor and some are major but if a player can come in reasonable amount of time and believe he can help down then you signed that player and if not then cut ties.

One thing I would want to know is whether there’s anything different about the surgery that they did this time vs what was done the other two times. Might that improve the odds of a recovery or are they just doing the same thing each time and hoping it works better than the ones that failed?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

A friend of mine said he apparently broke it falling at a bar downtown and the bar put it on its IG then took it off.
My eyes did not see that though

What the fuck?!?

 

[B-Roy]

What the fuck?!?

Yeah, what????

 

[wizenheimer]

Sam Bowie had a solid 3-year run with the Nets ages 28-30. Ezeli and Oden’s knees were their main issue, not their feet.

LOL...ok then great....Zach's missed 2 seasons, and is about to miss a 3rd, but his knees are healthy

 

[James lamphear]

One thing I would want to know is whether there’s anything different about the surgery that they did this time vs what was done the other two times. Might that improve the odds of a recovery or are they just doing the same thing each time and hoping it works better than the ones that failed?

Good question it's seems the other 2 wasn't very successful. The other question is this the same surgeon that did the first two.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Many times it has nothing to do with the surgery or surgeon but it's a lack of blood flow in that area. Low blood flow means it doesn't heal right. I believe that I read somewhere that his father had a very similar injury in college that never healed right so he couldn't play again.

If this is the case there is no point in re-signing him.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

A friend of mine said he apparently broke it falling at a bar downtown and the bar put it on its IG then took it off.
My eyes did not see that though

It’s like the Dance Dance Revolution saga - only worse

 

[PDXFonz]

Ah yes, the good old “Absolutely worth it IF he’s healthy”

Because really
Signing him is absolutely worth it IF he’s healthy.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Sorry to say this.
The "Zach Collins" era is officially done.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

There's nothing against the rules of telling a player you're likely to be traded, but this way, you get more $$ this year. I feel pretty confident that was the agreement with Hood opting out and signing a big deal. Pretty sure Meyers knew he wasn't a 10 million a year guy, but Miami wanted him as a trade chip.

Like I said, with Kanter, we have to wait until December 15th. You ideally want a deal done before training camp to have all of th eguys together instead of a mid season planned swap.
With salary matching, it's still 125%. If we sign Zach, he and DJJ get us to 20. If Zach walks, and we make other free agent deals, we could only trade DJJ as a mid sized salary, which is bringing back about 12 million in salary. I'd much prefer the larger matching ability.

Neither Hood or Meyers had a trade veto ability.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Sorry to say this.
The "Zach Collins" era is officially done.

This is factually wrong. You mean should be done, I assume.

 

[Orion Bailey]

*Sniffle*....*Wipes tear*.....

No......

*cry.....*

 

[Fairly-Hard]

This is factually wrong. You mean should be done, I assume.

Factually you are correct.
My personal "Opinionally" i don't believe i am.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

You keep saying this...but this notion is predicated on the idea that there will be some team out there that wants to send us a quality player in a firesale deal, while we are simultaneously interested in increasing our luxury tax above what it already projects to be. That relatively remote possibility does not seem worth the millions it would cost to keep him at his QO.

This, by the way, was the same logic Aaron Fentress trotted out for years in opposition to everyone saying that Neil screwed up the summer of 2016. "When those deals are expiring, they're going to be great assets, and he'll be able to use them to make a big trade". And we saw that Crabbe was traded for a millstone, Meyers/Harkless were traded for Whiteside, and Whiteside was traded for nothing. Only Turner technically turned into something, via Bazemore, then Ariza, and 2 firsts for RoCo.

Yeah, I'm not buying the logic on keeping Zach for future trade flexibility.

I sure hope those who are demanding Neil make a trade realize that he has limited trade pieces to do so, Who cares about $21 million? It doesn’t impact anybody that posts here and if Dame leaves because a trade that could happen with that contract is unavailable, he’s going to get bashed. Some people appear to be expecting a roster miracle while also limiting options to make that happen.

Seems odd to demand roster changes while also taking away a potential $7.3 million that’s an expiring contract. I negotiate pleas and such so perhaps my mind works differently because I don’t view Zach as a valuable player, but I do view his contract as being a major asset.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

I know he'd have a no trade clause, but you work that out with his agent beforehand. Is he going to get 7 million this year in free agency? No. So why woudn't he accept being a trade chip and hitting free agency next season? Plus, he'd be trade eligible immediately. If we sign re-sign Kanter, we can't trade him until mid Decemeber.

Right? Zach isn’t going to get more than the vet minimum from anyone which for a 4-year veteran is less than $2 million. As you said, I’m sure he’ll gladly waive the no-trade clause to make $7.3 million instead of less than $2 million. Zach would waive it so quickly it would be hilarious.

I’m not going to try and convince people that don’t comprehend the value of that QO as a trade piece, but if Neil doesn’t extend it and can’t make any deals as a result, he should be fired on that gaffe alone.

The same people criticizing Neil for the roster now want to take away perhaps the most valuable contract on the roster. Oh well...

 

[KristinthBonkers]

I probably have this wrong, but I seem to recall one of the mods on the RealGM trade board a couple of years ago saying that players on their QO can not be combined with any other players in a trade....kind of like a S&T player. Or maybe that was the previous CBA

would be worth knowing if that's true

I’m 99% positive that isn’t true. A trade exception can’t be combined in a trade but I’ve never heard that about a QO. If the NBAPA negotiated that, they’re stupid and costing their members money. Why sign anyone to a QO if they can’t be part of a larger deal?

If it’s correct then obviously you don’t sign him to the QO, but I need evidence of it because it doesn’t turn up on a Google search and I can’t find it in the CBA.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

LOL...ok then great....Zach's missed 2 seasons, and is about to miss a 3rd, but his knees are healthy

Just wanted to be factual. Including Oden and the other guy as examples of foot injures derailing careers made no sense.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

I dont see the point, just sign Kanter and he can be traded without shady possibly against the rules agreements. Plus you dont have to worry that someone could change their mind. Or sign none of them and have luxury tax flexibility.

The CBA reduced salary matching rules so it's not that difficult to match salaries.

If we are bringing in a star in a trade we will need to include a starter, so Zach wouldn't help there.

Kanter can’t be traded until December and wouldn’t take a one year contact here. Do people not understand the value of $7.3 million expiring contract for a capped out team that needs to improve?

How many potential deals are to be missed waiting until Kanter can be traded, and why would a Kanter re-sign here only to be traded?