Should we be worried? (Re: Radiation fallout)

[barfo]

The plume struck Portland 2 hours ago, at 2 am New York Times time. Here it is right before.

That explains all the dead birds and pets.

I've wrapped myself in saran wrap and duct tape, I should be fine.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, I tried. How dare the government parrot results of a half-century of close monitoring and industry and watchdog regulation and a century of nuclear physics research, while social workers and realtors who REALLY KNOW what's going on stand by idly waiting for them to set up radiation triage centers for those they're sure are about to die of large-scale radiological poisoning?

Has there even been a single death due to radiation in Japan due to these reactors? The posts MARIS has been making say that death from the massive radiation he imagines happens within hours or days. What's it been, a week?

The real threat to life there seems to be the massive destruction from 9.0 earthquakes and 30 ft. tsunamis. The body count (and sicknesses) from that sequence of events are staggering.

Isn't it odd that radiation is blamed for cancer, yet radiation therapy is used to kill it?

 

[Denny Crane]

I found some of this to actually be funny.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/18/uk-nuclear-usa-westcoast-idUSLNE72H01U20110318

Low concentrations of radioactive particles from Japan's stricken nuclear plants are expected to drift over the Pacific Ocean but nothing has been detected as of late Thursday by U.S. or Canadian monitoring stations, officials said.

(For MARIS, who says the govt. isn't telling us anything)

"We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the United States, whether it is the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska or U.S. territories in the Pacific," Obama said in a televised statement. "That is the judgment of our Nuclear Regulatory Commission and many other experts."

(And this is funny)
At least five merchants on Amazon.com were selling packages of potassium iodide tablets for between $300 and $400, far above the usual list price of $10. Two big online sellers said on their websites they were sold out.

 

[jlprk]

Isn't it odd that radiation is blamed for cancer, yet radiation therapy is used to kill it?

Now that was a deep thought. You're right, radiation is good for us.

Reagan said, always think of the silver lining. Think of the Japanese who got their cancerous cells killed by all the radiation in the air. Maybe you should patent this new medical technology.

Most experts interviewed on the news networks worry about the same things as Maris.

 

[Denny Crane]

Now that was a deep thought. You're right, radiation is good for us.

Reagan said, always think of the silver lining. Think of the Japanese who got their cancerous cells killed by all the radiation in the air. Maybe you should patent this new medical technology.

Most experts interviewed on the news networks worry about the same things as Maris.

Because they're selling out $10 iodine pills for $400.

 

[Fender]

Because they're selling out $10 iodine pills for $400.

LOL

 

[MARIS61]

Japan has now raised the threat level to 5.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=42147307&#42146973

Down to their last hope of preventing world-wide destruction on a scale never before known.

They will try to bury it.

Japanese citizens are now certain their government is lying to them and they are attempting to flee the country.

 

[MARIS61]

Has there even been a single death due to radiation in Japan due to these reactors?

There are currently 100 workers at the plant who are performing what everyone admits is a suicide mission. They are expected to die for their futile efforts. To prevdent lawsuits and incriminations, the government has arbitrarily raised the supposed "safe" level of exposure 500%.

The bigger danger is the widespread fallout polluting the entire Earth and the millions of deaths in the upcomming decades.

 

[Denny Crane]

They said on the news this morning that the radiation levels at the nuke plants is 1/3000th what it was at Chernobyl. I wouldn't park myself there for an extended time, but it sure sounds like people are way overflowing this.

Brian has accurately presented the science. The intensity reduces by the square of the distance.

 

[Masbee]

Now that was a deep thought. You're right, radiation is good for us.

Reagan said, always think of the silver lining. Think of the Japanese who got their cancerous cells killed by all the radiation in the air. Maybe you should patent this new medical technology.

Most experts interviewed on the news networks worry about the same things as Maris.

Yeah, well, there has long been thought to be a slightly positive effect of low dose radiation exposure.

Low dose = healthful for many
Moderate dose = harmful for many
High dose = harmful for most

Is that so hard to comprehend?

In health, medicine vs. poision is in the dose.

Why can't we see noticebly increased cancers in very high elevation towns? Or towns with extra high levels of radon? Or among pilots?

 

[Masbee]

There are currently 100 workers at the plant who are performing what everyone admits is a suicide mission. They are expected to die for their futile efforts. To prevdent lawsuits and incriminations, the government has arbitrarily raised the supposed "safe" level of exposure 500%.

The bigger danger is the widespread fallout polluting the entire Earth and the millions of deaths in the upcomming decades.

"millions"?

Wow, your willful ignorance is stunning.

 

[Natebishop3]

Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of MARIS61, a fictional message board character created for my amusement, and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of any real person alive or deceased.

^^^

 

[Denny Crane]

There are currently 100 workers at the plant who are performing what everyone admits is a suicide mission. They are expected to die for their futile efforts. To prevdent lawsuits and incriminations, the government has arbitrarily raised the supposed "safe" level of exposure 500%.

The bigger danger is the widespread fallout polluting the entire Earth and the millions of deaths in the upcomming decades.

Firemen rush into burning buildings. A suicide mission, that takes on far greater risk in the case of a mass scale catastrophe like 9/11.

I don't see a difference.

 

[barfo]

Firemen rush into burning buildings. A suicide mission, that takes on far greater risk in the case of a mass scale catastrophe like 9/11.

I don't see a difference.

That's absurd, Denny. Firemen have cool red trucks, odd-shaped hats, and poles to slide down. Nuclear plant workers don't.

barfo

 

[Masbee]

That's absurd, Denny. Firemen have cool red trucks, odd-shaped hats, and poles to slide down. Nuclear plant workers don't.

barfo

Picture from Fukushima, showing LOTS of cool red trucks:

 

[Natebishop3]

Firemen rush into burning buildings. A suicide mission, that takes on far greater risk in the case of a mass scale catastrophe like 9/11.

I don't see a difference.

That's not the same thing Denny.


Fire doesn't help cure cancer

 

[barfo]

Picture from Fukushima, showing LOTS of cool red trucks:

View attachment 2294

Firemen lent the nuclear plant workers those trucks as part of the Japanese government initiative "Today self-esteem of nuclear plant worker is raised"

barfo

 

[Klinky]

Firemen rush into burning buildings. A suicide mission, that takes on far greater risk in the case of a mass scale catastrophe like 9/11.

I don't see a difference.

I think there is a pretty big difference between going into a dangerous situation thinking you'll probably make it out versus knowing that you are slowly poisoning yourself over days or weeks. While a lot of the first responders @ the WTC were risking their lives, I'd imagine many thought the WTC towers would stand and not crumble.

I'd imagine by now that the workers at the Fukushima plant have gleaned enough info to figure out if they're receiving a lethal dose of radiation. I don't think we know, what they know though. So it's hard to tell if they are knowingly sacrificing themselves at this point.

 

[agoo]

I think most of the stories I've heard about 9/11 first responders indicate they had a feeling they weren't coming out.

 

[Klinky]

Yeah, well, there has long been thought to be a slightly positive effect of low dose radiation exposure.
Low dose = healthful for many

Can you post some sort of studies or info on how long term low-dose radiation, like the type being emitted by the Fukushima plant would produce healthful results? There are many different types of radiation...

In health, medicine vs. poision is in the dose.

Radiation used in medicine is highly targeted. It is used to kill tissue, cancerous tissue. It's not like it reinvigorates the body to fight off the cancer itself. The same goes for chemotherapy. You are trying to target the poisons at the tumor to kill the tumor, but usually this has harmful effects on the patient as well. You are making yourself sick, but hopefully the cancer sicker.

Why can't we see noticebly increased cancers in very high elevation towns?

There is a difference between cosmic background radiation type, levels & intensity versus something that emits high level alpha, beta, gamma particles like the Fukushima plant.

Or towns with extra high levels of radon?

If you do live in a town with a radon issue & you have high radon levels in your home, you are indeed at higher risk of lung cancer. Those places with radon emissions are more likely to have issues with radon build up in your home.

Or among pilots?

Again, different type, levels & intensity. Also planes are pretty well shielded and insulated to block out things that might interfere with the instruments/computers.

The radiation that is floating over here is very minor and I am not concerned about it. I am doubtful even if a major catastrophe happens with the Fukushima plant that it will have a major impact here, though I am monitoring it closely. Needless to say, I would not categorize us getting a light dusting of radiation from Fukushima as a "good thing" or healthy.

 

[Klinky]

I think most of the stories I've heard about 9/11 first responders indicate they had a feeling they weren't coming out.

Many did make it out & many thought they were going to make it out. There was confusion & miscommunication throughout the whole ordeal. Many workers reported they were told to stay in the towers over the intercom system. So there were many people who thought they were going to stand.

 

[Denny Crane]

I ask again, how many of these first responders have died from radiation poisoning? MARIS61 posts about doses killing people within 3 days. What's it been, a week now?

85 firefighters died in 2010 while on duty. Soldiers enlist and go to war knowing they could die

There's a reason people think of these guys as heroes, as well as the Fukushima 50. Those 50 guys aren't duped into going on site - they know better than MARIS61 does what the risks are.

 

[Haakzilla]

[video=youtube;kesP0IZggww]

...storm's a brewing!

 

[Klinky]

...storm's a brewing!

When did typical cloud forming water vapor become deadly? The idea that the Fukushima radiation release is powering storm systems or that this storm system has harmful levels of radiation in it sounds a bit absurd.

I like how he says "it's got a very very tight eye", when it actually has an "eye" about the size of Texas. A hurricane has an eye about the size of a metropolitan city(e.g. Portland Metro, i.e 20 - 40 miles across).

Also that storm doesn't even "exist" anymore, it's broken apart into two pieces.

 

[BrianFromWA]

From the AP:

Driven by winds over the Pacific Ocean, a radioactive plume released from the Fukushima Dai-ichi reached Southern California Friday, heightening concerns that Japan's nuclear disaster was assuming international proportions.

However, the results of testing reflected expectations by International Atomic Energy Agency officials that radiation had dissipated so much by the time it reached the U.S. coastline that it posed no health risk whatsoever to residents.

The U.S. Department of Energy said minuscule amounts of of the radioactive isotope xenon-133 — a gas produced during nuclear fission — had reached Sacramento in Northern California, but the readings were far below levels that could pose any health risks.

Initial readings from a monitoring station tied to the U.N.'s Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization were about "one-millionth of the dose rate that a person normally receives from rocks, bricks, the sun and other natural background sources," the U.S. Department of Energy said in a prepared statement.

The statement confirmed statements from diplomats and officials in Vienna earlier in the day.

I don't necessarily agree that "little bits of radiation dose could be helpful", but (as I've stated all along) the fears about this are not founded in science but in ignorance and hysteria. Maybe I should've called in to CNN or MSNBC or Fox or a social worker's blog and offered my services. I could make graphs and charts and everything!

 

[Klinky]

I ask again, how many of these first responders have died from radiation poisoning? MARIS61 posts about doses killing people within 3 days. What's it been, a week now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning

Alexander Litvinenko received direct internal poisoning and he suffered for 3 weeks before dying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Health_of_plant_workers_and_local_people

In the aftermath of the accident, 237 people suffered from acute radiation sickness, of whom 31 died within the first three months.[64][65] Most of these were fire and rescue workers trying to bring the accident under control, who were not fully aware of how dangerous exposure to the radiation in the smoke was.

Death by radiation sickness is usually a slow and painful process, MARIS61 has that part correct at least. I bet that the Fukushima workers are more aware of the dangers, but just because no one has died from radiation poisoning yet doesn't mean there won't be consequences to their health later.

 

[barfo]

From the AP:


I don't necessarily agree that "little bits of radiation dose could be helpful", but (as I've stated all along) the fears about this are not founded in science but in ignorance and hysteria. Maybe I should've called in to CNN or MSNBC or Fox or a social worker's blog and offered my services. I could make graphs and charts and everything!

There's still plenty of time, you should do it. Be sure and mention S2 on-air when you hit the big time.

barfo

 

[Masbee]

From the AP:


I don't necessarily agree that "little bits of radiation dose could be helpful",

It's called hormesis, you can look it up if you are interested. It is controversial when dealing with radiation, but not out in left field.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko_poisoning

Alexander Litvinenko received direct internal poisoning and he suffered for 3 weeks before dying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster#Health_of_plant_workers_and_local_people


Death by radiation sickness is usually a slow and painful process, MARIS61 has that part correct at least. I bet that the Fukushima workers are more aware of the dangers, but just because no one has died from radiation poisoning yet doesn't mean there won't be consequences to their health later.

And you realize the amount of radiation at Chernobyl was like 3000x more than at Fukushima?

 

[Klinky]

And you realize the amount of radiation at Chernobyl was like 3000x more than at Fukushima?

You don't need a Chernobyl to die. I used it mainly to illustrate that radiation rarely kills quickly. Some reports stated areas of Fukushima were radiating 400milliSV/hr which could be lethal after only a few hours exposure.



If reactors 1,2 & 3 meltdown along with 1,2,3 & 4's spent fuel rods becoming exposed and burning up, then we could very well see something worse than Chernobyl. Each day that passes where that doesn't happen makes it less likely.