Simons is a nightmare

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‪For some reason this guys 30 points and 8 ASTs are different than when Dame has 30 points and 8 asts. Doesn’t really impact winning ‬
 
BankTeller said:
Yes, simply because I’ve set my expectations for Ant at 24-26/3-4/6 on increased efficiency from last season, and all he’s done is be on line with that expectation. It wasn’t like I had this idea of Ant staying the same player (20ppg, not much else) he he’s been and am now overreacting to three games.

If you’re someone like wizenheimer who already thought to Ant as a CJ-clone, then yes it sounds ridiculous to compare the two. I have faith CJ will be more than that, so it doesn’t sound far fetched to me.
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I was just commenting on a 3 vs 59 game stats comparison. People are making a fairly valid argument that the 12 game sample for Scoot is next to meaningless. A 3 game sample is even more meaningless, IMO, especially when we already have a 5-season/290-game sample for Ant

I'm not sure I'd call Ant a CJ-clone. They have different styles although Ant did go full-bore-MeJ in the 4th Q against Golden State

but their weaknesses are the same: high usage undersized SG's with enough tweener skill to slide a bit awkwardly into a PG role; really poor at defense so no two-way-wing upside (where contenders are made), and no 3&D potential
 
AldoTrapani said:
‪For some reason this guys 30 points and 8 ASTs are different than when Dame has 30 points and 8 asts. Doesn’t really impact winning ‬
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Yeah, that’s the logical conclusion to make. The Mavs’ bigs are feasting in the paint, doubling the Blazers’ scoring there, but the reason the Blazers lost is because Ants’ 30-8 stat line doesn’t mean as much as when Dame did it.
 
e_blazer said:
Yeah, that’s the logical conclusion to make. The Mavs’ bigs are feasting in the paint, doubling the Blazers’ scoring there, but the reason the Blazers lost is because Ants’ 30-8 stat line doesn’t mean as much as when Dame did it.
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I'm not an Ant fan but he sure wasn't the reason Portland got boat-raced in the paint by over 30 points last night; or that Scoot & Camara combined to shoot 10-37 on FG's (27%), and 2-16 on three's (12.5%)
 
wizenheimer said:
crazy thing is OKC is younger, and Orlando is the same average age. They are 14-7 & 15-7 respectively
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Both teams also have been playing together longer.

Ant, sharpe and Grant are the only teammates that were here all of last year - and all 3 played together 1 game this year.

It's not just age, it's also familiarity.
 
wizenheimer said:
crazy thing is OKC is younger, and Orlando is the same average age. They are 14-7 & 15-7 respectively
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I wonder what this is rated by minutes played?

I always thought the "average roster age" stat very misleading when players 11-15 have the same impact as players 1-5.
 
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I wonder what the actual average total height is for NBA teams?
Entering the 2023-24 season, the average height for an NBA player is 6-foot-6.5-inches.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I wonder what this is rated by minutes played?

I always thought the "average roster age" stat very misleading when players 11-15 have the same impact as players 1-5.
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OKC's apparent 9 man rotation:

Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 25
Jalen Williams 22
Chet Holmgren 21
Luguentz Dort 24
Josh Giddey 21
Cason Wallace 20
Isaiah Joe 24
Kenrich Williams 29
Jaylin Williams 21

average age: 23.0
average age of players averaging over 20 minutes: 22.4
average age of starters: 22.6

Orlando's 10 man rotation (all over 19 minutes):

Paolo Banchero 21
Franz Wagner 22
Wendell Carter Jr. 24
Markelle Fultz 25
Cole Anthony 23
Jalen Suggs 22
Gary Harris 29
Goga Bitadze 24
Moritz Wagner 26
Anthony Black 20

average of rotation: 23.9
average of starters: 22.8

Portland's 10 man rotation:

Shaedon Sharpe 20
Jerami Grant 29
Anfernee Simons 24
Deandre Ayton 25
Malcolm Brogdon 31
Scoot Henderson 19
Toumani Camara 23
Matisse Thybulle 26
Jabari Walker 21
Duop Reath 27

average of rotation: 24.5
average of starters: 24.2 (Ant/Sharpe/Camara/Grant/Ayton)

average age of Houston starters 23.8
 
What would the average age be for the starters taking out Grant?
 
julius said:
I'd guess Walker?
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8/5 less

problem is I was talking about two teams younger than Portland who have 15-7 & 14-7 records. They are winning while being young. Portland is a little older and has a losing record already, and you're talking about making the losing worse by taking away a pretty good older player from the starters
 
wizenheimer said:
8/5 less

problem is I was talking about two teams younger than Portland who have 15-7 & 14-7 records. They are winning while being young. Portland is a little older and has a losing record already, and you're talking about making the losing worse by taking away a pretty good older player from the starters
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Well, their younger players mostly have a year together, whereas this team has had (checks math) 21 games. Check back within a year and Im sure the Blazers will have a better record this year than last year. I hope.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Simons is finally playing the role that he needs to be playing to show his full potential and this is a good thing. We can keep Scoot on the bench and let him develop. There’s no rush. If it takes him a year or two, that’s fine. We have Simons on an affordable deal and he’s playing well.

We need a young stud forward to replace Grant.
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I don’t mind him taking his time as long as there are noticeable improvement. If Scoot ultimately becomes the player he can be but he takes a year or two longer, it’s actually a good thing. By then, Scoot’s extension won’t be nearly anywhere near ‘star’ salary, meaning we could superstack this team during Shae’s prime. By the time Brown was in the last couple years of his last deal, he was pretty much the best deal in the NBA. As long as Scoot makes improvements, and Ant keeps progressing the way he is, we still will have one of the best three guard rotations in the league, Ant and Scoot’s roles will just be switched.

The key would be actually tracking his progress though. If no progress is made after one offseason, alarms do have to go off. We don’t want to invest way too much time into a player in hopes he’ll live up to expectations. Kilian Hayes has had an okay stretch of games, but has stayed in Detroit way longer than I would want if I was a Pistons fan.
 
julius said:
Well, their younger players mostly have a year together, whereas this team has had (checks math) 21 games. Check back within a year and Im sure the Blazers will have a better record this year than last year. I hope.
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I feel the same way. This is Blazers first year under new circumstances. It's been a long time since this team played hard this many games in a row. It is year 1.
 
BankTeller said:
I don’t mind him taking his time as long as there are noticeable improvement. If Scoot ultimately becomes the player he can be but he takes a year or two longer, it’s actually a good thing. By then, Scoot’s extension won’t be nearly anywhere near ‘star’ salary, meaning we could superstack this team during Shae’s prime. By the time Brown was in the last couple years of his last deal, he was pretty much the best deal in the NBA. As long as Scoot makes improvements, and Ant keeps progressing the way he is, we still will have one of the best three guard rotations in the league, Ant and Scoot’s roles will just be switched.

The key would be actually tracking his progress though. If no progress is made after one offseason, alarms do have to go off. We don’t want to invest way too much time into a player in hopes he’ll live up to expectations. Kilian Hayes has had an okay stretch of games, but has stayed in Detroit way longer than I would want if I was a Pistons fan.
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Maybe I'm in the minority, but I feel like Scoot HAS shown noticeable improvement in the past 21 games, even though he has only played in 12 of them.
 
It'll be interesting to see how Ant adapts to the new defense-first culture. With Toumani picking up full court, Matisse constantly hunting deflections, and Scoot clearly putting in the effort (even if it has resulted in lots of fouls) it feels like this is easily the most defensive-oriented team we've had since Wes blew his achiles. Billups won a championship on a legendarily good defensive team, so you know it's what he wants.

Ant was always a quiet, introspective player, who came up with Dame and CJ as his role models--guys who just shrugged off the "bad defense" label like it's no big deal. Guard defense was for journeymen wings like Aminu and Harkless. So that seemed to be Ant's attitude too. (I feel like Trent and Crabbe adopted that kind of vibe as well as soon as they became known as scorers.)

He's still not the player he's going to be, though. The dye isn't cast, and I think it's more than possible he can still become a plus defender as a guard. He just hasn't really been around a team that emphasizes it until now. He certainly has the speed and agility to defend well.

It may be something of a blessing for him to miss the start of this season. The team has built a plucky defensive identity without him, that probably doesn't so easily appear with him constantly dragging the team down on that end. It's up to him now to either adapt his game to the culture, or change the culture to compensate for his ineptitude on that end.

I sometimes wonder if Dame would have a much different reputation now if Wes hadn't blown that ankle. CJ probably doesn't start and just plays a microwave role off the bench. Batum, Wes, Aldridge and Lopez probably help mold his habits differently from CJ and the rest. Dame became the alpha of his team so quickly we just became accustomed to the bad defense. Culture matters, especially when you're still young and forming habits.
 
Simons shot 30% in the 4th. He was 3/10. 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter alone.

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This seems to be a trend since he came back.

Against the Mavs he was 2-6 with 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.

Against the Warriors he was 3-9 in the 4th quarter.

He's having good games, but in the 4th quarter he's clearly pressing and/or taking bad shots. Making mistakes he doesn't usually make.

So in those 3 games since he came back, he's shooting 8 for 25 (32%) from the field with 2.3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.
 

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Natebishop3 said:
Simons shot 30% in the 4th. He was 3/10. 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter alone.

View attachment 60557

This seems to be a trend since he came back.

Against the Mavs he was 2-6 with 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.

Against the Warriors he was 3-9 in the 4th quarter.

He's having good games, but in the 4th quarter he's clearly pressing and/or taking bad shots. Making mistakes he doesn't usually make.

So in those 3 games since he came back, he's shooting 8 for 25 (32%) from the field with 2.3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.
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The fact is that since he came back we haven't had Jerami or Deandre at all and we haven't had Malcolm for even one full game. I think Ant has a scary inclination to be a ball hog, MeJ 2.0 but he's incredibly talented and if he can be coached to share the ball then he'll be great and if not maybe he can fetch a good amount in a trade but probably no Ant trade this season. The one thing that gives me hope that he can change his ways on offense is that I think he's giving a ton more effort on D this season than we've ever seen from him before.

Scoot/Shae is still my back court of the future but all of it is a work in progress with a lot of moving parts.
 
blazerkor said:
The fact is that since he came back we haven't had Jerami or Deandre at all and we haven't had Malcolm for even one full game. I think Ant has a scary inclination to be a ball hog, MeJ 2.0 but he's incredibly talented and if he can be coached to share the ball then he'll be great and if not maybe he can fetch a good amount in a trade but probably no Ant trade this season. The one thing that gives me hope that he can change his ways on offense is that I think he's giving a ton more effort on D this season than we've ever seen from him before.

Scoot/Shae is still my back court of the future but all of it is a work in progress with a lot of moving parts.
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He's having such good games and then the 4th comes around and he's just.... not.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Simons shot 30% in the 4th. He was 3/10. 4 turnovers in the 4th quarter alone.

View attachment 60557

This seems to be a trend since he came back.

Against the Mavs he was 2-6 with 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.

Against the Warriors he was 3-9 in the 4th quarter.

He's having good games, but in the 4th quarter he's clearly pressing and/or taking bad shots. Making mistakes he doesn't usually make.

So in those 3 games since he came back, he's shooting 8 for 25 (32%) from the field with 2.3 turnovers in the 4th quarter.
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Ant has a little rust to knock off. Games like tonight will be Simons 50 points and Blazer wins soon.
 
Natebishop3 said:
He's having such good games and then the 4th comes around and he's just.... not.
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Things clamp up in the 4th. It’s just too hard to judge him without his starting front court. All teams know Ant, Shae, and Scoot are the only real ball handlers, and that Ant and Shae are the only shooters/scorers.
 
Ant played well. He didn't play well in the 4th quarter. Whatever, he's young and learning. Teams are sending two at Ant on almost every possession and he's making the right reads more often than not. Despite that he still put up 38 points on 66% TS, and is averaging like 27 on close to 60% TS.

People are spoiled by Dame. It's very obvious to me how much better the offense looks/makes sense with Ant at the helm. It should look even better when our starting front court isn't injured.
 
Ant has actually been passing the ball well this year. Averaging 5apg right now, and it could easily be higher with Grant, DA, and Brogdon on the floor. I think the main difference between Ant and Fox as a passer right now is that Fox had the reputation of being a PG and has been growing in that position since he was a rookie. He’s still around the 6apg mark. I’d be happy if Ant was around that mark for the rest of his career, and I think he’s at that point already.

I think that you are asking for too much to expect him to average more than that, he’s not a pure PG, and he doesn’t have to be. I think we just have to bring better players that also pass the ball well. In the draft, pay attention to guys whose descriptions are “a PG in a ____’s body”, those guys are going to be the meta in the modern NBA.

Guys like Stephon Castle, “PG in a SF body”. Guys like Buzelis and Williams, “can be a point forward”. When Ant and Shae aren’t the only ones who can handle the ball, Ant becomes so much more dangerous as a player. Ant is an amazing shooter, top 1% kind of shooter, 40%+ on 10+ attempts kind of shooter. Limit his need to be the playmaker by bringing in other playmakers, so Ant can hunt for his spots and choose when to score at will, his best quality. Ant isn’t going to ever be a natural PG who’s like Trae Young, but he’s good at making reads and passing within the flow of the offense right now, a lot better than most are giving him credit for.

Forget about what you think about them as prospects, just imagine them at their max potential:
Ant, Shae, Stephon, Matas
Ant, Shae, Stephon, Cody
Ant, Topic, Shae, Cody
Ant, Topic, Shae, Stephon

Find ways to make Ant our 3rd or 4th best playmaker on the court, and I think he’s a perennial AS, probably because he’s consistently averaging 30ppg.
 
B-Roy said:
Ant played well. He didn't play well in the 4th quarter. Whatever, he's young and learning. Teams are sending two at Ant on almost every possession and he's making the right reads more often than not. Despite that he still put up 38 points on 66% TS, and is averaging like 27 on close to 60% TS.

People are spoiled by Dame. It's very obvious to me how much better the offense looks/makes sense with Ant at the helm. It should look even better when our starting front court isn't injured.
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He has played well in all three games. It's just weird how he has fallen off a cliff in the 4th in all three games.
 
Natebishop3 said:
He has played well in all three games. It's just weird how he has fallen off a cliff in the 4th in all three games.
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He's 24. I don't expect perfection, and the losses are not even harmful! Not to mention he's only played with half the lineup, which means more minutes for bit players that shouldn't be playing crunch time minutes. This lets other teams key in on him in the 4th and there's not much he can do about it besides force up shots or make the right play to players that can't finish. We're too spoiled with years and years of Dame winning clutch games by himself, even while forcing the issue. Ant's not there yet.

I'd be much more concerned if he was doing this with our entire lineup and we were losing because of it. What I'm seeing here is mostly positives, really good positives. He's our best player by far IMO, and it's not really very close.
 
I’ve been an Ant apologist for awhile. With another game comes more optimism. So here’s some hopium for you all:

Ant’s December (3 games):
32.0/2.3/5.3 (3.3to) on .423/.441/1.00 (7 fta, 11.3 3pa)

Full context: he’s played without his starting PF and C, and his SF is not a threat on offense. I’m not judging him like he’s playing on a competing team right now. This is Trae Young on the Hawks, early Fox on the Kings, John Wall on the Wizards. This is Kobe post-Shaq, Tracy on the Magic. I’m not paying much attention to the playmaking outside of making sure he isn’t stifling the offense and playing within the offense. So far, the only times ‘he’s stalled the offense’ is when teams are denying Shae late in the game and putting much bigger defenders on Ant, making Ant shoulder everything on the offensive end.

Ant’s shooting has been lights out. The main worry for me was that he would not be able to be as good as Dame with all the 3’s off the dribble. With more opportunity, he’s put those worries to bed for me. He’s still showing us he is a lethal catch and shoot guy, top 5 in the league. With players returning, his quality of 3’s will improve without him having to take as many, and he’s going to get even MORE open looks. The 3pt% despite the lack on talent right now is highly encouraging. The 2pt percentage will climb as the better players come back. Right now, it’s lower than it’s been since his rookie season, and we KNOW he’s gotten so much better at it since then.

His fta is climbing. That’s huge. In a year where we aren’t competing and there’s an obvious lack in offensive talent on many nights, if not most nights, this is where he’s going to have to pick up a lot of his points. He’s going to be in situations like tonight a lot, where 6’8 guys like PG are sticking it to him for most of the second half. As long as he progresses to a point where he averages 6+ fta a game, he’s going to be a perennial 30ppg scorer.

As a passer, I can’t complain about anything. Again, obvious lack in talent, already averaging over 5pg, and could be closer to 7 if guys make their shots.

So far:
Raise FG%
Raise 3PT% X
Raise FTA X

That checks 2 out of 3. The verdict is out on him raising his FG% upon Grant, Brogdon, and DA’s return.
 
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