Simple Question. Who is the GOAT?

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Who is the Greatest NBA Player of All Time?

  • Michael Jordan

    Votes: 39 62.9%

  • Dillon Brooks

    Votes: 5 8.1%

  • LeBron James

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Larry Bird

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Magic Johnson

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Bill Russell

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Wilt Chamberlain

    Votes: 10 16.1%
  • Total voters
    62

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Vote results agree. MJ followed by Wilt.

Eff off LeBron.
 
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My issue with LeBron as a GOAT candidate is he's the best at collecting "back handed compliment" accolades. Played at a high level the longest. Made the Finals ten straight years or whatever. Did the most with the least help. If you have to make that many excuses for someone, they can't be the greatest ever.
 
handiman said:
My issue with LeBron as a GOAT candidate is he's the best at collecting "back handed compliment" accolades. Played at a high level the longest. Made the Finals ten straight years or whatever. Did the most with the least help. If you have to make that many excuses for someone, they can't be the greatest ever.
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He made the Finals 8 straight times but 10 times overall.
 
The simplest answer to the simple question:
There is no such thing as a goat - it's a team game that's changed its rules, salaries, and training methods over time.
 
JoshuaHall said:
LeBron by a country mile
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MJ
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
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I would say "learn the game, then post" but A. you wouldn't get the joke and B. the man who made that phrase notable included Dillon Brooks on this list.
 
handiman said:
There should be an asterisk there, with LeBron having a 3-year head start. So, 15 (and counting) vs 13 isn't that big of a difference.
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All sorts of things were out of control for both guys. Jordan didn't really have the chance to make the leap out of high school, but on the other hand there's no guarantee he'd have been as great as LeBron was at that age. (After all, LeBron had a ridiculous grown man's frame right from the start.)

You can't just throw away three years of LeBron's legacy because Jordan didn't do it. In fact, there's a pretty good argument that it makes LeBron's NBA career all the more impressive that he did it without the benefit of attending an elite college program to nurture his skills like Jordan did. LeBron went up against guys like Kobe and Duncan as an 18 year old while Jordan was sometimes playing against future accountants at that age.

Like I said, I judge them for what they actually had control over. LeBron has been consistently great without interruption for a ridiculous amount of time. He took no years off from the game. If I were in a high-stress business and had two elite employees and one of them showed up for a critical eleven hour shift and the other chose to only go nine hours, well, the guy who did nine is fantastic. But I'm going to love the guy who put in 11 even more.

Showing up counts. People think it's all about rings or MVP's or whatever. That stuff matters too. But at this level of elite, one guy clearly put more work in over his NBA career. It's indisputable.
 
mook said:
Like I said, I judge them for what they actually had control over. LeBron has been consistently great without interruption for a ridiculous amount of time. He took no years off from the game. If I were in a high-stress business and had two elite employees and one of them showed up for a critical eleven hour shift and the other chose to only go nine hours, well, the guy who did nine is fantastic. But I'm going to love the guy who put in 11 even more.
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Participation award. Got it.

Showing up counts. People think it's all about rings or MVP's or whatever. That stuff matters too. But at this level of elite, one guy clearly put more work in over his NBA career. It's indisputable.
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I usually agree with your takes, but that last bit is a, dafuq? You have zero basis for making that statement. LeBron has more years, but you don't know how much work each guy put in per year. That's exceptionally far from "indisputable."
 
wizenheimer said:
statistically, Wilt is GOAT. I mean, c'mon, 50 points and 26 rebounds a game in a season? 30 points and 23 rebounds a game for his career? A season when he averaged 24-24-9? And he also probably averaged 4-5 blocks a game too
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I know of someone who puts up with being married to an obnoxious Laker Fan. Yes, Mrs. @HCP is the GOAT!
 
Crap. I chose air Jordan until i realized i missed the true goat in the list. Whoever doesn't vote for Brooks has no clue about basketball. just sayin. Its Broooks. Close thread.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Crap. I chose air Jordan until i realized i missed the true goat in the list. Whoever doesn't vote for Brooks has no clue about basketball. just sayin. Its Broooks. Close thread.
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Everybody else are just pretenders
 
Orion Bailey said:
Crap. I chose air Jordan until i realized i missed the true goat in the list. Whoever doesn't vote for Brooks has no clue about basketball. just sayin. Its Broooks. Close thread.
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i would trade CJ for Simmons and Nurk for Brooks
 
Jordan is the greatest player across the board all stats and facets of the game considered. he is the most complete player and a winner
I'm not sure we'll ever see another season like his '88 one in terms of accolades

League MVP
Scoring leader
AND
Defensive player of the year
Steals leader

and everything else he did.......


Russell is the greatest winner the game has ever known
Kobe is probably the closest to MJ in terms of attitude but their is still a gulf in the achievements
Wilt was probably the biggest 'game changer'
The Bird/Magic rivalry was a huge interest driver

but nobody has ever had the impact on the game on a global level that MJ had - combined with his career performance and statistics, he's untouchable.

although Dillon Brooks is building......
not really
 
BoomChakaLaka said:
I still say it’s Bill Walton, Dave Twardzik, Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins, and Bobby Gross - my GOAT team. And basketball is a team sport!

starting 5 of the 1977 Portland Cinderella Trailblazers who showed that teamwork wins Titles
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Absolutely 100% correct. I went to many of their games, you should have heard the crowd and seen the Blazer spirit.
It was about that time when Sly started flying his blimp for the Blazers. It was a huge hit and the rest of the NBA soon copied it.
 
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I voted for Jordan because I never saw Wilt play and Kareem was old by the time I was watching him play. I think a case can be made for MJ, Wilt or Kareem. People saying LeBron must be joking, or very young. In terms of sheer dominance it has to be Wilt, in terms of dominance over time it has to be Kareem, but in terms of greatness of willpower, pure poetry in motion and athleticism that would be truly dominant in any era, I think the answer is Jordan. I do wish I had been able to see Wilt play, because I might change my mind.
 
Idog1976 said:
I voted for Jordan because I never saw Wilt play and Kareem was old by the time I was watching him play. I think a case can be made for MJ, Wilt or Kareem. People saying LeBron must be joking, or very young. In terms of sheer dominance it has to be Wilt, in terms of dominance over time it has to be Kareem, but in terms of greatness of willpower, pure poetry in motion and athleticism that would be truly dominant in any era, I think the answer is Jordan. I do wish I had been able to see Wilt play, because I might change my mind.
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They were all great.
You should have seen Walton in his prime. Awesome. The best I've ever seen but it was only a year and a half or so.
 
Idog1976 said:
I voted for Jordan because I never saw Wilt play and Kareem was old by the time I was watching him play. I think a case can be made for MJ, Wilt or Kareem. People saying LeBron must be joking, or very young. In terms of sheer dominance it has to be Wilt, in terms of dominance over time it has to be Kareem, but in terms of greatness of willpower, pure poetry in motion and athleticism that would be truly dominant in any era, I think the answer is Jordan. I do wish I had been able to see Wilt play, because I might change my mind.
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I'm with you that it's MJ but LeBron is the greatest in terms of dominance over time. He's already scored and assisted on more points than anyone else in the history of the game and he will pass Kareem in scoring alone by the time it's all said and done. Also Kareem only ever won titles on super teams. Him, The Big O and two or three other all stars in Milwaukee and the Showtime Lakers. LeBron has 4 titles and 2 of Kareem's six rings came in the last three seasons of his career when Magic was the best player on his team... LeBron could have a similar experience with AD, we'll just have to see. What we don't have to wait for is who has the most points and assists combined in the history of the league, LeBron's got that one locked up for a long time.
 
blazerkor said:
I'm with you that it's MJ but LeBron is the greatest in terms of dominance over time. He's already scored and assisted on more points than anyone else in the history of the game and he will pass Kareem in scoring alone by the time it's all said and done. Also Kareem only ever won titles on super teams. Him, The Big O and two or three other all stars in Milwaukee and the Showtime Lakers. LeBron has 4 titles and 2 of Kareem's six rings came in the last three seasons of his career when Magic was the best player on his team... LeBron could have a similar experience with AD, we'll just have to see. What we don't have to wait for is who has the most points and assists combined in the history of the league, LeBron's got that one locked up for a long time.
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LeBron is great. I just cant put him as the GOAT and feel its unlikely he can catch Wilt, MJ and Kareem in my mind. He has one of the greatest single championships, but he got two rings on a Super team, one in a weird fluky year (Bubble) and then what I consider to be one of the greatest championships Ive ever seen when he best GSW almost singlehandedly. Hes the greatest of the past 20 years no doubt.
 
If you put Jordan on all the Lebron contending teams and Lebron on all the Jordan contending teams does it change who won any of those?

I'm not sure Jordan would've won that Cleveland title over GS... LeBron was amazing. But I believe Jordan easily wins the other 3 Lebron titles. He might have beat the Celtics or Mavs and won a few more that LeBron lost.

LeBron wins on a few of the Bulls teams. But I don't believe he beats the last Jazz team, and maybe not some other teams (Blazers?).

As good as Pippen and other Bulls teammates were, LeBron has had more superstars on his contending teams. I believe Jordan wins more titles overall if their places were switched.

I would certainly put LeBron over Kareem and Wilt though. There were 8 teams in the NBA when Wilt started his career, winning a title then wouldn't have been as impressive as making the conference finals today, and Wilt only had one impressive title win in his career. The second title when he was 35 with the Lakers had Jerry West leading the team. Then Wilt retired the next year.

LeBron and MJ also had the positional and skill flexibility to dominate everywhere on the court in a way a center can't. If you put MJ and LeBron on the court together they would smoke a team of multiple centers. They might get out rebounded a bit or give up a few buckets in the post, although they still were forces inside. But on the other areas of the floor either one of them would destroy the centers.
 
I really don't believe in GOATS. I believe in 'best of their era'. Who dominated in their era. Did they have a strong supporting cast (drop in my eyes) or did they have to rise above a weak cast around them. If playing a team sport, did they make their teammates better? And so forth. The one thing I don't look at is titles. With all the collusion... titles are more bought than played for these days.
 
Are athletes really getting faster, better, stronger?



This is a good watch for anyone who debates the GOAT issue.
 
Thatbpguy said:
I really don't believe in GOATS.
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sorry man, they are real, and they play above the limb:

tree-goats-morocco_16x9.jpg
 
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