So glad we chose to extend Leonard and not TRob....

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Please don't tell me you think Leonard has BBall IQ?

Just think what we will have when his BBIQ kicks in!

Really, I would like to hear from Stotts some day on this question. Leonard has all the tools and sometimes he even shows he can use them. But then, next time, nothing.
What the hell is the deal? Is he stupid and can't learn? Why no trajectory apparent?
 
I don't believe the decision on TRob had anything whatsoever to do with Leonard, and vise-versa, or with choosing Leonard over TRob, or that the Blazers have done that. I'm confident there are other strategies at play here. I think it was all about the cap hold and giving TRob the tough love treatment to try to get him to follow direction and stop trying to play like a small forward.
Casey Holdahl mentioned in his podcast that TRobs highlights took the spotlight off his mistakes. He had a good double double last night but sucked at the line and turned the ball over 4 times. TRob is like Barton, picks up the tempo but sometimes gets out of position. He's a great rebounder if he concentrates. Valuable bench player who will put it all together with more court time. I'm optimistic about TRob and feel he has a sense of loyalty to the Blazers that could see him accepting a deal here in free agency.
 
T-Rob had the same number or rebounds last night than Leonar_'s total defensive rebounds for the season.

Cherry picking stats is so much fun...

Last night, TRob missed twice as many FTs in one game (10) as Meyers Leonard has this season and last season combined (5).

Even after last night's breakout performance, Leonard has superior advanced stats than TRob (higher PER, WS/48, VORP, etc.). If you're going to push the TRob is a stud Leonard is a dud agenda, you may want to avoid bringing stats to the table and rely more on anecdotal evidence and gut feel.

BNM
 
I don't think we have a consensus for the meaning of BBIQ, at least not based on what I'm reading here. It seems like people are lumping things like skill and instinct under the umbrella of BBIQ. To me, all three are distinctively different. I don't think either player has a very high BBIQ right now, but Leonard is a much more skilled player, much better shooter, better passer, doesn't turn the ball over, etc., but has really poor instincts. Robinson, other other hand is an extremely unskilled player that relies 100% on instincts and athleticism.

That's what's especially frustrating about both players. The anti-Leonard camp's criticism is not based on his actual production (check his stats, they are actually pretty good), it's based on the fact that he still frequently looks lost on the court and they see this as a hopeless lack of improvement. They ignore that fact that he actually has improved in the areas of his weaknesses (he's become a much better rebounder, for example) and consider him a bust and a waste of a draft pick. TRob is equally frustrating. He still tantalizes with his athleticism, but is still the exact same unskilled player he was as a rookie. He hasn't developed a single low post move, can't make FTs to save his life and turns the ball over at an alarming rate. It makes one wonder what he works on in practice and the off season. He seems perfectly content to continue to rely totally on his instincts, athleticism and energy to have an occasional good game and a highlight reel dunk or block a couple times a year. His complete lack of improvement of fundamental basketball skills makes me question both his intelligence and his work ethic.

So, why did management pick up Leonard's option and not TRob's? Only they know. It may have been to preserve cap flexibility. It may have been to motivate TRob, or maybe they think it's more likely the light will go on for Leonard before Robinson ever acquires any meaningful skill to go with his instincts and athleticism.

BNM
 
I don't think we have a consensus for the meaning of BBIQ, at least not based on what I'm reading here. It seems like people are lumping things like skill and instinct under the umbrella of BBIQ. To me, all three are distinctively different. I don't think either player has a very high BBIQ right now, but Leonard is a much more skilled player, much better shooter, better passer, doesn't turn the ball over, etc., but has really poor instincts. Robinson, other other hand is an extremely unskilled player that relies 100% on instincts and athleticism.

That's what's especially frustrating about both players. The anti-Leonard camp's criticism is not based on his actual production (check his stats, they are actually pretty good), it's based on the fact that he still frequently looks lost on the court and they see this as a hopeless lack of improvement. They ignore that fact that he actually has improved in the areas of his weaknesses (he's become a much better rebounder, for example) and consider him a bust and a waste of a draft pick. TRob is equally frustrating. He still tantalizes with his athleticism, but is still the exact same unskilled player he was as a rookie. He hasn't developed a single low post move, can't make FTs to save his life and turns the ball over at an alarming rate. It makes one wonder what he works on in practice and the off season. He seems perfectly content to continue to rely totally on his instincts, athleticism and energy to have an occasional good game and a highlight reel dunk or block a couple times a year. His complete lack of improvement of fundamental basketball skills makes me question both his intelligence and his work ethic.

So, why did management pick up Leonard's option and not TRob's? Only they know. It may have been to preserve cap flexibility. It may have been to motivate TRob, or maybe they think it's more likely the light will go on for Leonard before Robinson ever acquires any meaningful skill to go with his instincts and athleticism.

BNM

Good post! If only we were able to combine both players into one!
 
Last night, TRob missed twice as many FTs in one game (10) as Meyers Leonard has this season and last season combined (5).

BNM
Holy crap on a shingle. TRob missed 10 free throws? Ouch. I love having big men who can make their free throws. It means they can stay on the court at the end of the game. And it's critical in the playoffs.
 
Casey Holdahl mentioned in his podcast that TRobs highlights took the spotlight off his mistakes. He had a good double double last night but sucked at the line and turned the ball over 4 times. TRob is like Barton, picks up the tempo but sometimes gets out of position. He's a great rebounder if he concentrates. Valuable bench player who will put it all together with more court time.

I agree. With 10 missed FTs and 4 TOVs, Robinson would have been a huge liability if the game has been closer and Milwaukee would have been at full strength. Last night was the perfect example of Good TRob vs. Bad TRob, and that's exactly what you get with him. He'll bring the energy, grab some boards and get an occasional highlight reel block or dunk, but he'll also kill you at the line and with stupid, unforced TOVs.

More court time will not help Robinson "put it all together". It's his lack of skill that's holding him back. Things like FT shooting and developing a low post move are things he should be working on in practice and the off season. More PT is not going to make him a better FT shooter and a reliable low post scorer.

Leonard is the one he needs more PT to improve his instincts and his feel for the game. He already has skills, he lacks instincts, confidence and court awareness. Those things require PT to improve, but unless this team starts getting more blowout victories, you can't just throw Meyers out there if it may cost you a win.

Likewise, with his poor FT shooting, you can't leave TRob out there in the 4th quarter of a close game do to his horrendous FT shooting.

BNM
 
I agree. With 10 missed FTs and 4 TOVs, Robinson would have been a huge liability if the game has been closer and Milwaukee would have been at full strength. Last night was the perfect example of Good TRob vs. Bad TRob, and that's exactly what you get with him. He'll bring the energy, grab some boards and get an occasional highlight reel block or dunk, but he'll also kill you at the line and with stupid, unforced TOVs.

More court time will not help Robinson "put it all together". It's his lack of skill that's holding him back. Things like FT shooting and developing a low post move are things he should be working on in practice and the off season. More PT is not going to make him a better FT shooter and a reliable low post scorer.

Leonard is the one he needs more PT to improve his instincts and his feel for the game. He already has skills, he lacks instincts, confidence and court awareness. Those things require PT to improve, but unless this team starts getting more blowout victories, you can't just throw Meyers out there if it may cost you a win.

Likewise, with his poor FT shooting, you can't leave TRob out there in the 4th quarter of a close game do to his horrendous FT shooting.

BNM

Scotts never would have left him in that long if the game was that close. It was like a little joke between Kidd and stotts and if the game had gotten down to a threatening score, I think terry would have pulled him and put freeland or Kaman on the floor.


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Look TRob has been in the league what? 4 years now, played on 3 teams already? There's a reason for that.
 
Look TRob has been in the league what? 4 years now, played on 3 teams already? There's a reason for that.

So?!?! Zach was on 4 teams in 10 years and there was a reason for that. Players change to help their squad just like Zach did.
 
Scotts never would have left him in that long if the game was that close. It was like a little joke between Kidd and stotts and if the game had gotten down to a threatening score, I think terry would have pulled him and put freeland or Kaman on the floor.


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Oh, most definitely. Stotts would not have left Robinson in the game to play through the whole Hack-a-TRob situation if the game had been on the line. Milwaukee did manage to cut the lead from 13 to a final margin of 7 with a buzzer beating 3, but for the most part, with time running out and a double digit lead, Stotts was comfortable allowing TRob to clang FT after FT. Hack-a-Trob might have actually worked, if Milwaukee could have made some shots to take advantage of all those missed FTs. Look for other teams to deliberately foul Robinson if they are trailing and he's on the floor in the 4th quarter.

BNM
 
Holy crap on a shingle. TRob missed 10 free throws? Ouch. I love having big men who can make their free throws. It means they can stay on the court at the end of the game. And it's critical in the playoffs.

Yep, he was 5-15 and Milwaukee was fouling him intentionally when he didn't even have the ball. He's now shooting .414 FT% for the season

Somewhere last night, Shaq and Dwight Howard were embarrassed for Thomas Robinson.

BNM
 
Oh, most definitely. Stotts would not have left Robinson in the game to play through the whole Hack-a-TRob situation if the game had been on the line. Milwaukee did manage to cut the lead from 13 to a final margin of 7 with a buzzer beating 3, but for the most part, with time running out and a double digit lead, Stotts was comfortable allowing TRob to clang FT after FT. Hack-a-Trob might have actually worked, if Milwaukee could have made some shots to take advantage of all those missed FTs. Look for other teams to deliberately foul Robinson if they are trailing and he's on the floor in the 4th quarter.

BNM

But the reality with T. Rob is that he is just a bench player. Of course he was a starter last night, but he would never end games with Lopez in the line-up. This was a situational move to the starting role, which in most cases, he will be coming off the bench with teams being bigger.
 
You know that Robinson is paid more than Lilliard, right?
 
What doesn't make sense to me is that Robinson has decent shooting form. He can make jump shots. It seems all mental to me.


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But the reality with T. Rob is that he is just a bench player. Of course he was a starter last night, but he would never end games with Lopez in the line-up. This was a situational move to the starting role, which in most cases, he will be coming off the bench with teams being bigger.

I think Joel will start against the bigger competition while TRob will start against some of the smaller guys. Obviously Kaman's minutes will have an increase as well.
 
Oh, most definitely. Stotts would not have left Robinson in the game to play through the whole Hack-a-TRob situation if the game had been on the line. Milwaukee did manage to cut the lead from 13 to a final margin of 7 with a buzzer beating 3, but for the most part, with time running out and a double digit lead, Stotts was comfortable allowing TRob to clang FT after FT. Hack-a-Trob might have actually worked, if Milwaukee could have made some shots to take advantage of all those missed FTs. Look for other teams to deliberately foul Robinson if they are trailing and he's on the floor in the 4th quarter.

BNM
Not to mention it's a goldern (edit: golden + goll darn I guess) opportunity to force TRob to come to grips with the need for him to work on his free throw shooting. In front of a Moda Center full of fans, that had to be embarrassing, and I hope humbling. Maybe Stotts asked Kidd to to it? ;)
 
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Not to mention it's a goldern opportunity to force TRob to come to grips with the need for him to work on his free throw shooting. In front of a Moda Center full of fans, that had to be embarrassing, and I hope humbling. Maybe Stotts asked Kidd to to it? ;)

It was definitely a great teaching moment by Stotts. He could have pulled TRob as soon as the Bucks started the Hack-a-TRob, but he left him in to work through it. TRob got to play big minutes, got to match his career high in scoring, and got a standing ovation when he left the game, but it was also very, very clear that he needs to keep working on his game if he expects to be in the regular rotation. Give him encouragement and reward him for his positive contributions, but don't let it go to his head.

BNM
 
We also should have drafted Durant instead of Oden, should not have drafted Telfair, and we should never have let Walton play in that game when he injured his foot - what were we thinking???

image001.jpg
 
Cherry picking stats is so much fun...

Last night, TRob missed twice as many FTs in one game (10) as Meyers Leonard has this season and last season combined (5).

Even after last night's breakout performance, Leonard has superior advanced stats than TRob (higher PER, WS/48, VORP, etc.). If you're going to push the TRob is a stud Leonard is a dud agenda, you may want to avoid bringing stats to the table and rely more on anecdotal evidence and gut feel.

BNM

Some cherry pick stats, some cherry pick posts to respond to.

a better PER in half the minutes against scrubs. Congrats, Meyers, you are amazing.

I'll take the guy who dives for loose balls late in the game over the one who is too busy fixing his hair to realize he's been pushed under the basket....AGAIN
 
We also should have drafted Durant instead of Oden, should not have drafted Telfair, and we should never have let Walton play in that game when he injured his foot - what were we thinking???

image001.jpg

How is this Monday morning quarterbacking? A lot of us were unhappy at the time it was done. Leonard is horrible.

It's not like this was an unknown. Leonard was horrible at the time of the decision, and he's horrible now.
 
Some cherry pick stats, some cherry pick posts to respond to.

Paranoid much? I also responded to Mags, BBert, Riverman and Natebishop in this thread.

I'll take the guy who dives for loose balls late in the game over the one who is too busy fixing his hair to realize he's been pushed under the basket....AGAIN

Cute, too bad it's never actually happened. Would you also take the guy who missed 10 FTs (including 8 in the 4th quarter) and turned the ball over 4 times? The difference? That actually happened.

BNM
 

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