So I wanted to figure out who the top 5 point guards are

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Natebishop3

Natebishop3

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So I decided to play around and develop my own system for ranking point guards. I wrote down each players ppg, rebounds, assists, steals, FG%, TS%, and PER and then I decided to throw in team win% and overall games played this season to see how that would affect guys like Rose and Westbrook. The top guy got 20 points, the second guy got 19, and so and so on. These were my findings:

Totals
1. Steph Curry (158)
2. Chris Paul (142)
3. Russell Westbrook (133)
4. Damian Lillard (132)
5. John Wall (131)
5. Jeff Teague (131)
7. Kyle Lowry (124)
8. Mike Conley (109)
9. Eric Bledsoe (108)
10. Brandon Knight (99)
11. Kyrie Irving (96)
12. Goran Dragic (80)
13. Ty Lawson (74)
14. Darren Collison (72)
15. Rajon Rondo (70)
16. Tony Parker (68)
17. Deron Williams (67)
18. Kemba Walker (52)
19. Michael Carter-Williams (50)
20. Derrick Rose (48)

Pretty much exactly who I figured would be in my top five.... with the exception of Jeff Teague. That dude has been balling. He should have made their lists. Not surprising, at least to me, is where Rose and Tony Parker are sitting currently on this list. Is there anyone I should have included? Is there any category that you think should have been included? I'm not sure exactly how to figure in a defensive rating.


Here's how each category played out.

TS%
1. Steph Curry - 20 points (61.6%)
2. Chris Paul - 19 points (60.3%)
3. Russell Westbrook - 18 points (60.1%)
4. Jeff Teague - 17 points (58.8%)
5. Mike Conley - 16 points (58.6%)
6. Dame Lillard - 15 points (58.5%)
7. Tony Parker - 14 points (58.3%)
8. Goran Dragic - 14 points (58.3%)
9. Kyrie Irving - 12 points (57.7%)
10. Brandon Knight - 11 points (57%)
11. Eric Bledsoe - 10 points (55.9%)
12. Kyle Lowry - 9 points (55.1%)
13. Deron Williams - 8 points (54.4%)
14. Darren Collison - 7 points (53.2%)
15. John Wall - 6 points (52.6%)
16. Derrick Rose - 5 points (52.2%)
17. Ty Lawson - 4 points (49.9%)
18. Kemba Walker - 3 points (47%)
19. MCW - 2 points (45.2%)
20. Rajon Rondo - 1 points (41.5%)

PER
1. Russell Westbrook - 20 points (34.5)
2. Steph Curry - 19 points (26.4)
3. Chris Paul - 18 points (25.2)
4. Kyle Lowry - 17 points (23)
5. Dame Lillard - 16 points (22.2)
6. Jeff Teague - 15 points (21.2)
7. John Wall - 14 points (21.1)
8. Mike Conley - 13 points (21)
9. Kyrie Irving - 12 points (20.7)
10. Brandon Knight - 11 points (18.7)
11. Darren Collison - 10 points (18.2)
12. Eric Bledsoe - 9 points (17.7)
13. Ty Lawson - 9 points (17.7)
14. Deron Williams - 9 points (17.7)
15. Goran Dragic - 6 points (17.2)
16. Derrick Rose - 5 points (17.1)
17. Tony Parker - 4 points (16.9)
18. Kemba Walker - 3 points (16.1)
19. Rajon Rondo - 2 points (14.8)
20. MCW - 1 point (12.5)

Field Goal Percentage
1. Tony Parker - 20 points (50.9%)
2. Chris Paul - 19 points (50.5%)
3. Goran Dragic - 18 points (49.7%)
4. Russell Westbrook - 17 points (49.5%)
5. Steph Curry - 16 points (47.9%)
6. Jeff Teague - 15 points (47.4%)
7. Mike Conley - 14 points (47.2%)
8. Kyrie Irving - 13 points (46%)
9. Dame Lillard - 12 points (44.9%)
10. John Wall - 11 points (44.8%)
11. Eric Bledsoe - 10 points (44.2%)
12. Kyle Lowry - 9 points (43.6%)
13. Brandon Knight - 8 points (43.5%)
14. Darren Collison - 7 points (43%)
15. Derick Rose - 6 points (42%)
16. Deron Williams - 5 points (40.9%)
17. Ty Lawson - 4 points (40.1%)
18. Rajon Rondo - 3 points (39.9%)
19. MCW - 2 points (39%)
20. Kemba Walker -1 point (37.8%)

Steals
1. John Wall - 20 points (2.2 steals)
2. Steph Curry - 19 points (1.9 steals)
3. Jeff Teague - 19 points (1.9 steals)
4. Russell Westbrook - 19 points (1.9 steals)
5. Chris Paul - 16 points (1.8 steals)
6. Rajon Rondo - 15 points (1.7 steals)
7. Eric Bledsoe - 14 points (1.6 steals)
8. Darren Collison - 14 points (1.6 steals)
9. Kyrie Irving - 14 points (1.6 steals)
10. Dame Lillard - 11 points (1.5 steals)
11. Ty Lawson - 11 points (1.5 steals)
12. Brandon Knight - 9 points (1.4 steals)
13. Kemba Walker - 9 points (1.4 steals)
14. Kyle Lowry - 9 points (1.4 steals)
15. Deron Williams - 6 points (1.2 steals)
16. Mike Conley - 6 points (1.2 steals)
17. MCW - 4 points (1.1 steals)
18. Goran Dragic 3 points (1 steal)
19. Tony Parker 2 points (.6 steals)
20. Derrick Rose 1 point (.5 steals)

Rebounds
1. Rajon Rondo - 20 points (7.5 rebounds)
2. MCW - 19 points (7.3 rebounds
3. Russell Westbrook - 18 points (5.8 rebounds)
4. Eric Bledsoe - 17 points (5.4 rebounds)
5. Dame Lillard - 16 points (5.3 rebounds)
6. Steph Curry - 15 points (5.2 rebounds)
7. John Wall - 14 points (4.8 rebounds)
8. Kyle Lowry - 13 points (4.7 rebounds)
9. Brandon Knight - 13 points (4.7 rebounds)
10. Chris Paul - 11 points (4.5 rebounds)
11. Kemba Walker - 10 points (4.4 rebounds)
12. Ty Lawson - 10 points (4.4 rebounds)
13. Darren Collison - 8 points (3.7 rebounds)
14. Goran Dragic - 7 points (3.4 rebounds)
15. Derrick Rose - 6 points (3.3 rebounds)
16. Deron Williams - 5 points (3.2 rebounds)
17. Kyrie Irving - 4 points (3.1 rebounds)
18. Jeff Teague - 3 points (2.9 rebounds)
19. Mike Conley - 2 point (2.8 rebounds)
20. Tony Parker - 1 point (1.7 rebounds)

Assists
1. John Wall - 20 points (10.6 assists)
2. Rajon Rondo - 20 points (10.6 assists)
3. Ty Lawson - 18 points (10.3 assists)
4. Chris Paul - 17 points (9.7 assists)
5. Jeff Teague - 16 points (8 assists)
6. Michael Carter-Williams - 15 points (7.7 assists)
7. Steph Curry - 14 points (7.6 assists)
8. Kyle Lowry - 14 points (7.6 assists)
9. Deron Williams - 12 points (7 assists)
10. Russell Westbrook - 11 points (6.8 assists)
11. Eric Bledsoe - 10 points (6.5 assists)
12. Mike Conley - 9 points (6.2 assists)
13. Darren Collison - 9 points (6.2 assists)
14. Dame Lillard - 7 points (6.1 assists)
15. Kemba Walker - 6 points (5.6 assists)
16. Brandon Knight - 6 points (5.6 assists)
17. Tony Parker - 4 points (5.3 assists)
18. Kyrie Irving - 3 points (5.2 assists)
19. Derrick Rose - 2 points (5.1 assists)
20. Goran Dragic - 1 point (4 assists)

Points Per game
1. Westbrook - 20 points (26.4 ppg)
2. Steph Curry - 19 points (23.5 ppg)
3. Damian Lillard - 18 points (20.4 ppg)
4. Kyrie Irving - 18 points (20.4 ppg)
5. Kyle Lowry - 16 points (19.6 ppg)
6. Jeff Teague - 15 points (19.3 ppg)
7. Mike Conley - 14 points (17.8 ppg)
8. John Wall - 14 points (17.8 ppg)
9. Brandon Knight - 12 points (17.5 ppg)
10. Chris Paul - 11 points (17.4 ppg)
11. Eric Bledsoe - 10 points (17.1 ppg)
12. Derrick Rose - 9 points (16.8 ppg)
13. Deron Williams - 8 points (16.6 ppg)
14. Goran Dragic - 7 points (16.1 ppg)
15. Tony Parker - 6 points (16 ppg)
16. Ty Lawson - 5 points (15.6 ppg)
17. Darren Collison - 5 points (15.6 ppg)
18. Michael Carter-Williams - 3 points (15.5 ppg)
19. Kemba Walker - 2 points (15.3 ppg)
20. Rajon Rondo - 1 point (8 ppg)

Games Played
1. Eric Bledsoe - 20 points (26 games)
2. Dame Lillard - 19 points (25 games)
3. Brandon Knight - 19 points (25 games)
4. Kyle Lowry - 19 points (25 games)
5. Chris Paul - 16 points (24 games)
6. Mike Conley - 16 points (24 games)
7. John Wall - 16 points (24 games)
8. Steph Curry - 16 points (24 games)
9. Kemba Walker - 16 points (24 games)
10. Jeff Tague - 16 points (24 games)
11. Goran Dragic - 16 points (24 games)
12. Kyrie Irving - 9 points (23 games)
13. Deron Williams - 9 points (23 games)
14. Ty Lawson - 9 points (23 games)
15. Darren Collison - 6 points (22 games)
16. Rajon Rondo - 5 points (21 games)
17. Tony Parker - 4 points (19 games)
18. MCW - 3 points (17 games)
19. Derrick Rose - 2 points (16 games)
20. Russell Westbrook 1 point (11 games)

Win%
1. Steph Curry - 20 points (.875)
2. Mike Conley - 19 points (.833)
3. Damian Lillard - 18 points (.760)
4. Kyle Lowry - 18 points (.760)
5. John Wall - 16 points (.750)
6. Chris Paul - 15 points (.708)
7. Jeff Teague - 15 points (.708)
8. Tony Parker - 13 points (.680)
9. Derrick Rose - 12 points (.625)
10. Kyrie Irving - 11 points (.609)
11. Brandon Knight - 10 points (.520)
12. Russell Westbrook - 9 points (.480)
13. Goran Dragic - 8 points (.462)
14. Eric Bledsoe - 8 points (.462)
15. Darren Collison - 6 points (.440)
16. Deron Williams - 5 points (.435)
17. Ty Lawson - 4 points (.417)
18. Rajon Rondo - 3 points (.364)
19. Kemba Walker - 2 points (.250)
20. MCW - 1 point (.083)
 
Obviously it's not a perfect system, and I might tweak it to try to include defensive rating or something like that.
 
Cool idea, though I think your ranking skews towards scoring PGs due to so many scoring categories, or categories that themselves skew towards scoring (ppg, FG%, TS%, and PER). Nearly half of your categories will favor PGs who look to score.
And I get what you're doing with GP, but the difference of just a few games is the difference between 9 points and 20 points, which seems unfair.
 
Last edited:
blue9 said:
Cool idea, though I think your ranking skews towards scoring PGs due to so many scoring categories, or categories that themselves skew towards scoring (ppg, FG%, TS%, and PER). Nearly half of your categories will favor PGs who look to score.
And I get what you're doing with GP, but the difference of just a few games is the difference between 9 points and 20 points, which seems unfair.
Click to expand...

Like I said, it's not perfect, but I think that will balance out later in the season.

Why would FG% and TS% skew towards scoring point guards? I'm merely rewarding people who shoot a good percentage. A lot of scoring point guards have horrible shooting percentages. I'm not rewarding most fg makes.
 
I think the list is spot on. Especially Lowry who gets no respect. Teague deserves to be there. Atlanta is a contender.
 
Good job. You obviously put a lot of time and effort into your evaluation. The list itself looks pretty good as well.
However, you'll find that if you switch from the "per game" format to a 36 min or 100 possession the list may balance out a bit better. Nothing really wrong with something like ppg but it doesn't add true value to an efficient guy like Tony Parker who's placement is far too low.
 
blue9 said:
And I get what you're doing with GP, but the difference of just a few games is the difference between 9 points and 20 points, which seems unfair.
Click to expand...
Good point. I wonder if there is a way to bell curve it, or go with ranges, i.e. 1-6 games = 5 pts, 7-12 games = 10 pts., 13-18 games = 15 pts., 19-25 games = 20 pts.
 
I like your system.

Lowry is the Eastern Conference MVP so far
 
Natebishop3 said:
Why would FG% and TS% skew towards scoring point guards? I'm merely rewarding people who shoot a good percentage. A lot of scoring point guards have horrible shooting percentages. I'm not rewarding most fg makes.
Click to expand...
It's the fact that nearly half (4 of 9) of the categories are scoring-dominant categories. TS% will greatly favor PGs who look to score, and favor those with 3-point shots even more (or PGs who recklessly drive looking for the foul rather than just trying to put the ball through the hoop). I know a point is a point regardless of how it's scored, and how each person values the way the game is played is subjective. But when it comes to PGs I personally prefer a floor general more than a score-by-any-means-necessary Harden/Westbrook sort of player. Four scoring categories versus one assist category really skews towards scoring PGs, rather than floor generals. I would personally drop TS% and PER, but leave PPG and FG%.
But I like what you're doing here!
 
blue9 said:
It's the fact that nearly half (4 of 9) of the categories are scoring-dominant categories. TS% will greatly favor PGs who look to score, and favor those with 3-point shots even more (or PGs who recklessly drive looking for the foul rather than just trying to put the ball through the hoop). I know a point is a point regardless of how it's scored, and how each person values the way the game is played is subjective. But when it comes to PGs I personally prefer a floor general more than a score-by-any-means-necessary Harden/Westbrook sort of player. Four scoring categories versus one assist category really skews towards scoring PGs, rather than floor generals. I would personally drop TS% and PER, but leave PPG and FG%.
But I like what you're doing here!
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this. It's not putting down scoring PGs, but I believe the true PGs get punished for not scoring, even if they are dishing out a ton of assists.
 
magnifier661 said:
I actually agree with this. It's not putting down scoring PGs, but I believe the true PGs get punished for not scoring, even if they are dishing out a ton of assists.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Put John Stockton's numbers up there and see where he ends up. His TS% is off the charts.
 
blue9 said:
It's the fact that nearly half (4 of 9) of the categories are scoring-dominant categories. TS% will greatly favor PGs who look to score, and favor those with 3-point shots even more (or PGs who recklessly drive looking for the foul rather than just trying to put the ball through the hoop). I know a point is a point regardless of how it's scored, and how each person values the way the game is played is subjective. But when it comes to PGs I personally prefer a floor general more than a score-by-any-means-necessary Harden/Westbrook sort of player. Four scoring categories versus one assist category really skews towards scoring PGs, rather than floor generals. I would personally drop TS% and PER, but leave PPG and FG%.
But I like what you're doing here!
Click to expand...

That's how the league is now. Scoring point guards reign supreme. With that said, Paul and wall are two of the best assist guys in the league right, and they ranked really high on my list. Rondo is the only guy who was really hurt by the offensive categories and that's because he is an abysmal shooter. Just awful.

If anything I would like to work in a way of factoring defense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Small item to consider: Ties should be the average of the tied position. So, a tie for #3 would be 17.5 points per player, not 18 each. With 3rd through 6th being separated by 2 points, that could become significant.
 
Cool idea. I agree that it would be awesome if you could somehow factor in defense. Interesting to see if Dame would fall in the rankings
 
Mediocre Man said:
Cool idea. I agree that it would be awesome if you could somehow factor in defense. Interesting to see if Dame would fall in the rankings
Click to expand...

It's so hard to gauge individual defense unless you use the eye test. I wish their was a better model of stat keeping
 
magnifier661 said:
It's so hard to gauge individual defense unless you use the eye test. I wish their was a better model of stat keeping
Click to expand...

did your man score a bucket while you defended him? yes/no?

go, algorithm, go!!
 
Strenuus said:
did your man score a bucket while you defended him? yes/no?

go, algorithm, go!!
Click to expand...
That coupled with comparing the player's average FG% to their FG% for shots taken against a specific defender.

But even that is tricky because how do you take into account a perimeter defender getting blown by and then a secondary defender picking up the play? If the offensive player scores does that go against the primary defender (who wasn't around when the shot went up), or the secondary defender?
 
blue9 said:
That coupled with comparing the player's average FG% to their FG% for shots taken against a specific defender.

But even that is tricky because how do you take into account a perimeter defender getting blown by and then a secondary defender picking up the play? If the offensive player scores does that go against the primary defender (who wasn't around when the shot went up), or the secondary defender?
Click to expand...

That's kinda what my little joke was talking about, you really can't.


though, i wonder if that new technology... nuscore or whatever... could be modified to input that from cameras and log it... never doubt technology, even though that sounds far fetched.
 
Strenuus said:
That's kinda what my little joke was talking about, you really can't.


though, i wonder if that new technology... nuscore or whatever... could be modified to input that from cameras and log it... never doubt technology, even though that sounds far fetched.
Click to expand...
Even though it'd be imperfect I do think seeing Opp average FG% vs Opp game FG%, broken down for each defender, would be interesting.
 
blue9 said:
Even though it'd be imperfect I do think seeing Opp average FG% vs Opp game FG%, broken down for each defender, would be interesting.
Click to expand...

that still couldn't factor in the secondary defender... perimiter blowbys, etc... unless there was someone physically marking down what happened... and that'd be toughto do live unless you had a stenographer. lol.
 
Strenuus said:
that still couldn't factor in the secondary defender... perimiter blowbys, etc... unless there was someone physically marking down what happened... and that'd be toughto do live unless you had a stenographer. lol.
Click to expand...

Have you ever been on 82games.com?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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