So, If You're A Christian, You're Then Unfit To Become A Professional Counselor?

[ABM]

I don't get your question. She wants to be a counselor, and in that role she'll give inputs and suggestions. Right? As a counselor, she'll be able to give her personal inputs more than most people would be able to in their jobs. But she still has to follow guidelines..

I don't believe the "guidelines" would/should necessarily require her to relate/instill her personal beliefs regarding homosexuality. Therefore, if she conducts herself professionally within the confines of said guidelines/policy, then what's the big dif?

Again, though, the onus would be on her to act professionally.

I'm thinking the university is making a broad leap from taking what she may believe personally (morally), then extrapolating that to how she might/would conduct herself in her counseling profession. Not to mention, there will be a boatload of other issues for her to contend with in a school setting.

Shoot, you, yourself said that all the extraneous matters don't belong in the school systems, anyway. Thank you. I concur and applaud you, as well, for that reasoning. I think where these issues have come into play is that the parents have quit parenting. If, as a society, we could somehow get back to those basics, there would be far less for the counselors to contend with. Just my 2-cents.

 

[ABM]

Call it religion or whatever, telling someone they should be put to death for their sin should not be tolerated at any institution..

Where did being put to death enter into the equation??

 

[hasoos]

Life is hard enough to deal with all the problems there are without somebody openly discriminating against somebody because they have different sexual practices than another person. What's next? Are folks going to start discriminating against those who practice S&M? Just let people live their lives in peace. As long as they aren't violating anybody else constitutional rights and aren't damaging somebody else's property, why should anybody care how they live their live?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Call it religion or whatever, telling someone they should be put to death for their sin should not be tolerated at any institution. Being hateful and a bigot should not qualify her in any protected class.

She could very well be able to hide behind religion, as many before her have done. But it doesn't make it right. You can't hide behind something that's wrong.

You're unfairly putting words into her mouth. I'm a Christian, but that doesn't mean that I believe that all homosexuals should be killed.

Let's stick to the information that has been presented rather than tossing in unsupported speculation.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Life is hard enough to deal with all the problems there are without somebody openly discriminating against somebody because they have different sexual practices than another person. What's next? Are folks going to start discriminating against those who practice S&M? Just let people live their lives in peace. As long as they aren't violating anybody else constitutional rights and aren't damaging somebody else's property, why should anybody care how they live their live?

That's a noble sentiment, but it's not relevant to this discussion. Nobody is discriminating against anyone for their sexual orientation. The only discrimination happening in this story is against someone who believes that there is a hierarchy of sexual orientation.

 

[barfo]

I don't believe the "guidelines" would/should necessarily require her to relate/instill her personal beliefs regarding homosexuality. Therefore, if she conducts herself professionally within the confines of said guidelines/policy, then what's the big dif?

Again, though, the onus would be on her to act professionally.

I'm thinking the university is making a broad leap from taking what she may believe personally (morally), then extrapolating that to how she might/would conduct herself in her counseling profession.

You didn't read the complaint that you provided a link for, did you? In it she says, repeatedly, that she does in fact plan to let her religion determine her conduct as a counselor.

barfo

 

[ABM]

Life is hard enough to deal with all the problems there are without somebody openly discriminating against somebody because they have different sexual practices than another person. What's next? Are folks going to start discriminating against those who practice S&M? Just let people live their lives in peace. As long as they aren't violating anybody else constitutional rights and aren't damaging somebody else's property, why should anybody care how they live their live?

I agree with you...and it's caused me to wonder why this young woman, Ms. Keeton, appears to be discriminated against...simply because she has some very personal views which happen to different than some of those at the institution she's attending.

Again, if she doesn't let those views restrict her from adequately performing her ultimate job, then this entire issue should be moot.

 

[ABM]

You didn't read the complaint that you provided a link for, did you? In it she says, repeatedly, that she does in fact plan to let her religion determine her conduct as a counselor.

barfo

I let my "religion" determine my conduct as an employee. It doesn't mean that I discriminate, though. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I'll still treat homosexuals with the same love/respect that I would anyone else.

As the Bible states, homosexuality is a sin. However, so are a bazillion other sins out there, as well.. My Bible tells me:

"Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, with never a thought for the plank in your own? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own? You hypocrite! First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's." (Matt. 7:3-5)

In other words, I've got plenty to be concerned with in my own life about without placing judgement on anyone else. I'm hopeful that Keeton sees this in the same light.

 

[blazerboy30]

I let my "religion" determine my conduct as an employee. It doesn't mean that I discriminate, though. I don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but I'll still treat homosexuals with the same love/respect that I would anyone else.

As the Bible states, homosexuality is a sin. However, so are a bazillion other sins out there, as well.. My Bible tells me:



In other words, I've got plenty to be concerned with in my own life about without placing judgement on anyone else. I'm hopeful that Keeton sees this in the same light.

Where does the Bible state that "homosexuality is a sin"?

 

[ABM]

Where does the Bible state that "homosexuality is a sin"?

Here's a link I had provided earlier. Pretty much sums up where I'm at with all this...

http://carm.org/homosexuality

 

[ABM]

Okay, you don't "agree" with the homosexual lifestyle. But what does you "agreeing" or "disagreeing" with it even means? You wouldn't live that lifestyle? Fine, that's your preference. You wouldn't want other people to live that lifestyle. Why? What does it matter to you how complete strangers live? You say because your god says it's wrong. Okay, can you at least give me a reason for why you believe that your god thinks it's wrong?

God says it's wrong based upon scripture.

What's my response to that? Well, here's an example from that website I had alluded to:

Just because someone is a homosexual does not mean that we cannot love him (or her) or pray for him (her). Homosexuality is a sin and like any other sin, it needs to be dealt with in the only way possible. It needs to be laid at the cross, repented of, and never done again.

As a Christian, you should pray for the salvation of the homosexual the same as you would for any other person in sin. The homosexual is still made in the image of God -- even though he is in grave sin. Therefore, you should show him the same dignity as anyone else with whom you come in contact. However, this does not mean that you are to approve of their sin. Don't compromise your witness for a socially-acceptable opinion that is void of godliness.

 

[blazerboy30]

You didn't read the complaint that you provided a link for, did you? In it she says, repeatedly, that she does in fact plan to let her religion determine her conduct as a counselor.

barfo

Not everybody agrees with every aspect or doctrine of their religion.

 

[blazerboy30]

Of course not. They pick and choose. I have more respect for the ones that go "all in", even if I disagree with them.

Really?

You have more respect for Catholics that go "all in" compared to those that believe in the basic themes but don't necessarily that, for example, priests have to be men?

Interesting stance.

 

[andalusian]

God says it's wrong based upon scripture.

Oh, whoopteedoo. The bible also tells you that David and Johnathan were lovers - and there was no problem with it (heck, David became king beloved by god). Heck, David's downfall was because he coveted someone else's wife - which in theory tells you that lusting after someone else's wife is worse than homosexuality. Add the fact that apparently polygamy was not a problem - and it's pretty clear that "the bible scriptures tell me" are nothing but a crutch.

The bible is a collection of marketing materials changing based on whatever someone was trying to sell at the moment. So - which bible do you believe in - the one that tells you that homosexuality is a sin that is punishable by death - or the one that shows you that it was rewarded by making someone king? Do as I do, not as I say?

At the end of the day - anytime you excuse something by "the bible said so" - you are lying to yourself...

The bible is full of contradictions based on whatever someone was trying to sell you at that moment.

 

[blazerboy30]

Yes. Both I view as somewhat to extremely delusional. But one is not hypocrites.

Uh, ok. Which ones are hypocrites and why?

 

[blazerboy30]

Ones that pick and choose. Look, if you're going to say "I try to do whatever god says, and the Bible is god's words", then I expect you try your best doing what the Bible says. Don't pick and choose and spins it to whatever you want to believe.

Yeah, because if you are going to have any spiritual beliefs, it has to be exactly the same as everybody else.

Interestingly, the majority of the hate, judgement and bigotry in this thread comes from those that are so quick to rage against religion for doing so.

 

[barfo]

Not everybody agrees with every aspect or doctrine of their religion.

True, but sort of irrelevant here, since she has apparently gone well out of her way to make it clear that she does in fact strongly agree with this particular aspect of her religion.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

True, but sort of irrelevant here, since she has apparently gone well out of her way to make it clear that she does in fact strongly agree with this particular aspect of her religion.

barfo

I have to admit, I didn't read every link or article posted, just the first couple. I didn't see any of that in the first couple links.

 

[blazerboy30]

Not what I said, but okay.


Please. This mentality reminds me of an annoying kid in grade school. He keeps poking at you. Sucker punching you. Finally, you're pissed off enough. Chase after him and beat his ass to the ground. He goes to the adults and whines that the "bully" picks on him.

Please show me some quotes from this thread where the religious folks were throwing out hate filled terms, calling others bigots and hypocrites, at an entire of group of people. There has been plenty of that here from the other side. If you want to continue with your head in the sand, that is fine, but you sure are quick to toss out the insults.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

ABM,

for your link they substitute the word "homosexual" in 1 Cor 6 9-10

nor homosexuals, 10

I do not own a bible. Do all of them say this or is it

nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

The two Old Testament commandments would seem to have to be thrown out with the other laws of Moses.

The last quote from Romans seems to say it is wrong for a man that is naturally attracted to a woman to whore himself with another man. That does not necessarily say that it is wrong to have sex with another man since it would not apply to gay males that naturally like males.

 

[blazerboy30]

There are other forms of insults. Name calling is but one of them. Telling someone they need to be "saved" because they have what you believe to be a deficiency is an insult. Telling someone they should be killed based on the way they live their lives is more than just an insult, but you get my drift.

Who said that? Or are you just building strawmen?

I ain't perfect, but I'm better than the next guy. How's that?

I don't know you, so I can't judge. You sure seem quick to lump people into a group and then call them bigots for judging a group of people. I'm sure you see the irony.

 

[julius]

I think this thread bought Denny a trip to Hawaii.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Where does the Bible state that "homosexuality is a sin"?

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 1:24-32

 

[andalusian]

I think this thread bought Denny a trip to Hawaii.

Denny is in San Diego. What does he need a trip to Hawaii for? I believe, however, that 12 more responses will get him a fly-fishing vacation in Montana! Flies included!

 

[blazerboy30]

You wouldn't be at all offended if someone say "this is my views", then goes on to link to an article full of hatred? Who's having his head in the sand again?


Yes, I'm quick to call those espousing hateful views bigots. Doesn't matter what their religion is or if they're non-religious. A bigot is a bigot. If you think that's me lumping some people into a particular group, okay.

Like I said, I'm sure you see the irony here.

 

[blazerboy30]

I already told you the story about the annoying kid.

You got beat up a lot in school? That would explain why you are such an angry little guy.

 

[MARIS61]

As of now, sexual orientation is not considered a legally protected class, so legally, religious considerations should take precedence.

That is incorrect.

 

[MARIS61]

Please show me some quotes from this thread where the religious folks were throwing out hate filled terms, calling others bigots and hypocrites, at an entire of group of people. There has been plenty of that here from the other side. If you want to continue with your head in the sand, that is fine, but you sure are quick to toss out the insults.

Saying that homosexuals are "sinners" (=bad person) because of something they had little or nothing to do with seems very hateful indeed.

 

[MARIS61]

Where did being put to death enter into the equation??

Did you simply scan a few pages of the bible, or maybe you get it all at that website in order to save time?

 

[MARIS61]

You're unfairly putting words into her mouth. I'm a Christian, but that doesn't mean that I believe that all homosexuals should be killed.

Then you're not really a christian.