So I'm pretty sure we're at the "bid against ourselves" point

[BrianFromWA]

DET blew its wad on Gordon and Charlie V.
MEM got Zach b/c Lee wanted too much, now they're done.
TOR has to renounce a bunch of players to get above MLE-level money available.

It's us and OKC. Do we have to give Turk big money? If you start at 4yr/31.4M (base of 7M) is that an "insult"?

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

Prolly an insult after what we already offered him. I think it's pretty set that we are giving him 5 years @ 50 mil.

Gotta just get used to it!

 

[alex42083]

I believe it, although I'm sure it'd be quite the insult if we try to lowball him now. I'm fine with the $10 mil/year money we give him, but maybe he'd take three years with a team option for a fourth, or anything other than a guaranteed 5 years for $50 mil.

 

[Minstrel]

Why would it be an insult? Teams and players routinely change their offers during negotiations based on changing landscape. I think Portland's reportedly "putting in a big on Ariza" was a part of pointing out to Turkoglu that they don't consider him impossible to live without.

 

[Draco]

DET blew its wad on Gordon and Charlie V.
MEM got Zach b/c Lee wanted too much, now they're done.
TOR has to renounce a bunch of players to get above MLE-level money available.

It's us and OKC. Do we have to give Turk big money? If you start at 4yr/31.4M (base of 7M) is that an "insult"?

Yeah that would be better if we could get him at your proposed amount, even at 5 years that's 40 million.

But at those amounts Orlando could jump back in the picture and with other players out there including our #2 target Ariza agreeing to deals our options are drying up.

Edit: I wonder if we should make an effort to trim years or trim annual salary. For us would a 3 year 30 million deal be better than 5 year 40 million? The latter would give us the flexibility of possibly frontloading the contract or retaining a sliver of cap space this season. The shorter deal would limit long-term risk.

 

[BrianFromWA]

ORL is at 70M with only 8 players signed. They need to be at 13. Even vet minimums you're looking at a 75M payroll. If you add Hedo to that, even low-balled, you're sitting at an 80M roster with the lux tax somewhere around 68M, probably.

 

[Minstrel]

Edit: I wonder if we should make an effort to trim years or trim annual salary. For us would a 3 year 30 million deal be better than 5 year 40 million?

I'd prefer a higher per-year salary and fewer years. Paying a million or two more a year isn't a major drain. Paying an unproductive player $8-9 million per year for a couple of years (the back end of the second deal) would be a major drain.

 

[Draco]

ORL is at 70M with only 8 players signed. They need to be at 13. Even vet minimums you're looking at a 75M payroll. If you add Hedo to that, even low-balled, you're sitting at an 80M roster with the lux tax somewhere around 68M, probably.

It's been reported they already offered him $35 million.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Then they have my blessing.

 

[alex42083]

Why would it be an insult? Teams and players routinely change their offers during negotiations based on changing landscape. I think Portland's reportedly "putting in a big on Ariza" was a part of pointing out to Turkoglu that they don't consider him impossible to live without.

Pro athletes just have huge egos. Hedo is expecting to get paid handsomely. He's expecting a $10 mil per contract from another team. I'm sure there can be some negotiation involved in the money, but Hedo admitted he wants to get paid.
You start lowballing him with an offer like $7 mil per, he may just rather go back to Orlando. He'll get pissed at his agent, and then the agent gets pissed at the ballclub, and you may not deal with any of those agent's clients again.

Gordon got $10 mil per, Villanueva got $7 mil per, and I'm sure Hedo feels he's worth at least or similar to Gordon.

 

[B-Roy]

Well now that Ariza is gone, it's Hedo or bust!

 

[BrianFromWA]

Or wait until later on for lopsided trades at the deadline for players that need to be jettisoned.

 

[Minstrel]

You start lowballing him with an offer like $7 mil per, he may just rather go back to Orlando. He'll get pissed at his agent, and then the agent gets pissed at the ballclub, and you may not deal with any of those agent's clients again.

Considering that it happens all the time, that teams and athletes adjust their offers based on the competition that they see, I don't think that that's a significant risk. It may happen once in a rare while, but I don't think many athletes cost themselves several million dollars in order to indulge in pique. Nor would any agent worth employing reduce the pool of opportunities for his clients because he didn't like how a negotiation went.

 

[Minstrel]

Well now that Ariza is gone, it's Hedo or bust!

Odom is available, too. He's a better player and one year younger.

 

[B-Roy]

Odom is available, too. He's a better player and one year younger.

And unable to the the SF position.

 

[Ed O]

It's been reported they already offered him $35 million.

That was after the Finals, right? Before they traded for Vince Carter and before it became obvious there's only one other team in the NBA that's willing and able to offer more than the MLE for him?

For some reason I don't think Orlando would offer that again.

Ed O.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

DET blew its wad on Gordon and Charlie V.
MEM got Zach b/c Lee wanted too much, now they're done.
TOR has to renounce a bunch of players to get above MLE-level money available.

It's us and OKC. Do we have to give Turk big money? If you start at 4yr/31.4M (base of 7M) is that an "insult"?

Agreed 100%. Look, there's a reason nobody really wants him very much. We're probably offering 40% more than any other tream. It's really kinda stupid.

 

[Minstrel]

And unable to the the SF position.

I disagree. He can play it as much as Turkoglu can. He's a 3/4, like Turk. He didn't play it much in LA because they needed him at PF more.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

No way Hedo gets $10 million per year from anyone in this market. I said it in another thread, I'll bet we get Hedo for 4 years at $32 million or 5 years at $38 million.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

No way Hedo gets $10 million per year from anyone in this market. I said it in another thread, I'll bet we get Hedo for 4 years at $32 million or 5 years at $38 million.

That's still a bit high, but much better.

 

[BIG Q]

The only instance I can think of is when Rod Thorn/NJ backed out of their offer to SAR, costing us a first rounder that we were going to trade to Phoenix for Barbosa. I can't recall an instance where a team or a player has backed out on an agreed upon deal other than SAR's. It did happen recently by a player in baseball.

Like Wheels has been saying this week, the teams and players are not supposed to have any contact prior to July 1, but it is obvious that they do. Just look at the Turk interviews today. He kept having to correct what he was saying. He knows he has a deal, for how much and for how long. He is in Portland looking for a condo in the Pearl.

Edit: Of course you have the Boozer/Cleveland hood winking but that is a bit different.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

That's still a bit high, but much better.

High? Dude, you're crazy! The guy was the MVP of the Magic during the playoffs. In case you didnt notice, they made it to the NBA Finals!

 

[Nikolokolus]

No way Hedo gets $10 million per year from anyone in this market. I said it in another thread, I'll bet we get Hedo for 4 years at $32 million or 5 years at $38 million.

So Hedo opted out of his contract that was going to pay him 7.6 million so he could take a multi-year deal at the same amount, or for less than the the Magic reportedly offered him? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Minstrel]

So Hedo opted out of his contract that was going to pay him 7.6 million so he could take a multi-year deal at the same amount, or for less than the the Magic reportedly offered him? I'm not seeing it.

Unlikely, but not impossible. He could have miscalculated, opting out because he thought he could get more. Now, he finds he can't but Orlando's offer is off the table with Carter in the fold.

 

[alex42083]

Considering that it happens all the time, that teams and athletes adjust their offers based on the competition that they see, I don't think that that's a significant risk. It may happen once in a rare while, but I don't think many athletes cost themselves several million dollars in order to indulge in pique. Nor would any agent worth employing reduce the pool of opportunities for his clients because he didn't like how a negotiation went.

You just want to keep your players happy, especially coveted FAs. And you want to keep their agents happy since they represent several clients.
Why make the fuss over $1-3 mil per year for a guy that you really want? It's the years of the contract that concern me, not the money. I'd rather not want Hedo for five years, and would prefer three or four.

I don't think there was too much of a bidding war for Gordon, and he got $10-11 mil per year. In a perfect world, I'm sure Detroit felt they could've gotten him cheaper but they wanted him and they came at a salary that made sides both happy.

If Hedo signs, it'll be for $9-11 mil per year and I'm sure that would make him, and the Blazers happy.

 

[BrianFromWA]

and it would be like Shaq gave up 30M for one year to get a 5yr, 100M deal.

 

[Draco]

That was after the Finals, right? Before they traded for Vince Carter and before it became obvious there's only one other team in the NBA that's willing and able to offer more than the MLE for him?

For some reason I don't think Orlando would offer that again.

Ed O.

I had read it was after they got Carter, $35 million over 5 years would start at $6million, basically the MLE. They would have to pay Luxury tax but not a massive amount.

But who knows maybe the report was incorrect.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

High? Dude, you're crazy! The guy was the MVP of the Magic during the playoffs. In case you didnt notice, they made it to the NBA Finals!

He shot under 40% in almost all the games and my grandmother can drive past him. Yeah, that sure makes him a $10,000,000 per year goto guy.

 

[BIG Q]

Lets get real people. Hedo will get all of our available cap money.

Does it matter?

No.

Why?

SPAM

It is not your money. It is not my money. It is Paul Allens. Five years from now Portland will still be over the cap even with Hedo coming off of the books. Even if we give Hedo $6 mil per, we still have rookies to sign this year, the next, the next, the next, etc... Add to that we are giving Roy a max deal, Aldridge probably 90% of max, what ever Oden deserves when he is up for extension, Rudy, Bayless, Batum. This team will not see cap space unless they let everyone expire like SA did while keeping their big three. It is not out money, it is Paul Allens money and the cap space and flexibility are gone as soon as we offer to Roy/Aldridge for a long, long time. It is just the way it is.

 

[BIG Q]

I had read it was after they got Carter, $35 million over 5 years would start at $6million, basically the MLE. They would have to pay Luxury tax but not a massive amount.

But who knows maybe the report was incorrect.

I read on the RealGM Orlando board he was offered an extension of 4/$35 mil. This was shortly after the finals, which of course he turned down. They then did the Carter trade sealing Hedo's departure.