So Jerryd Now...

[RoyIsClutch07]

How many of you feel more comfortable with Jerryd as a point guard now than before summer league?

How many of you feel he has a future at this position? What about his play in summer league makes you feel that he does or does not have a future as a point guard?

Next, if he never makes it as a point guard. How good of a player is he really? Does he have enough offense or talent to be a guy that plays the position very similar to the way Monta Ellis plays it? Or is he more of a poor mans Monta? More of a Antonio Daniels type with less athleticism but a better shot.

The way I look at it is Jerryd is showing no signs of being that guy as a one. He has proven that he is more of an undersized two. So if that is indeed the case. How valuable is he really to us? And even more. How good of a player will he ever be as an undersized two? Furthermore, is this a project we want to spend anymore time on?

There are risks involved here.

Thoughts?

 

[ODENISGOD]

HE STINKS AND I HOPE HE IS TRADED TODAY. BUT KP DOESNT KNOW HOW TO MAKE A FAIR TRADE SO HE WILL BE ON THE BENCH POUTING IF U NEED HIM

 

[Further]

How many of you feel more comfortable with Jerryd as a point guard now than before summer league?

How many of you feel he has a future at this position? What about his play in summer league makes you feel that he does or does not have a future as a point guard?

Next, if he never makes it as a point guard. How good of a player is he really? Does he have enough offense or talent to be a guy that plays the position very similar to the way Monta Ellis it? Or is he more of a poor mans Monta? More of a Antonio Daniels type with less athleticism but a better shot.

The way I look at it is Jerryd is showing no signs of being that guy as a one. He has proven that he is more of an undersized two. So if that is indeed the case. How valuable is he really to us? And even more. How good of a player will he ever be as an undersized two? Furthermore, is this a project we want to spend anymore time on?

There are risks involved here.

Thoughts?

All summer league did for me regarding Bayless was show me that he is working at completely changing how he plays so he can become a PG. Results were not important. I don't know if he will every succeed, but knowing that he is as big a gym rat as any player in the NBA, I think he stands a very good chance. I actually think by the end of this season, people will be changing their tune.

He only had one year NCAA, playing SG, then last year was a rookie in the NBA. Give him more time. Especially at the PG position. People here give up on players way too early.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

HE STINKS AND I HOPE HE IS TRADED TODAY. BUT KP DOESNT KNOW HOW TO MAKE A FAIR TRADE SO HE WILL BE ON THE BENCH POUTING IF U NEED HIM

You're riled up this afternoon.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I see Bayless' ceiling as Vinnie "microwave" Johnson. (ie - 3rd guard and important reserve on a contender)

Sadly, I don't believe it will be in Portland.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

All summer league did for me regarding Bayless was show me that he is working at completely changing how he plays so he can become a PG. Results were not important. I don't know if he will every succeed, but knowing that he is as big a gym rat as any player in the NBA, I think he stands a very good chance. I actually think by the end of this season, people will be changing their tune.

He only had one year NCAA, playing SG, then last year was a rookie in the NBA. Give him more time. Especially at the PG position. People here give up on players way too early.

Has he shown any natural ability to play the position God? I mean if the reports are true and he has spent 85 percent of his life playing as a point guard. Shouldn't there be some evidence of that on the floor?

 

[ODENISGOD]

I see Bayless' ceiling as Vinnie "microwave" Johnson. (ie - 3rd guard and important reserve on a contender)

Sadly, I don't believe it will be in Portland.

VINNIE JOHNSON HAHHAHAH BAYLESS WISHES HE COULD HAVE HALF THE CARRER JOHNSON HAD. BAYLESS BELONGS IN THE D LEAGUE.

 

[Minstrel]

Roy has above average court vision and passing for a shooting guard. Bayless may have below average court vision and passing for a point guard. I'm not convinced that each player needs to be the platonic version of their position, so long as the "right amounts" of passing, scoring, rebounding and defense are there. In terms of court vision and passing, if Roy's above-average-ness at his position makes up for Bayless' below-average-ness at his, that seems like a fine model to work with.

I think distribution of "point guard" duties over both guards can work fine. Neither Bayless or Roy may be ideal point guards, but if they can both play-make to some extent, I'm willing to believe that that will be equivalent to the "traditional" model of a point guard who largely handles all the play-making duties and a shooting guard who doesn't do much distribution.

I don't think who specifically does what is the key. I think the key is that the team, overall, has all the things it needs. In an extreme case, if the team gets 10 RPG from its shooting guard and its power forward gets 4 RPG, I don't think that's a problem--all that matters is that the team gets all the rebounding it needs. In the case of the Blazers, I think the team will get all the passing it needs, as Bayless and Roy are probably at least average for NBA backcourts in terms of passing and Aldridge and Oden are probably above average for NBA front courts in terms of passing. Not having a classic point guard doesn't seem like a major issue.

As far as I'm concerned, the guard who plays alongside Roy would ideally have the following qualities:

1. Defends point guards well
2. Knocks down shots from the perimeter at a good clip
3. Slashes to the basket and finishes/draws fouls
4. Dishes to teammates when defense collapses on his drives

All of these things I believe Bayless is capable of. He has the tools and desire to be a good defender, he shot the ball well outside his sporadic playing-time rookie season, he showed an elite ability to get to the hoop and draw fouls even in his otherwise poor rookie season. I think he showed the passing ability in college and in summer league to find teammates off defensive attention he draws. He doesn't have the passing skill/court vision to initiate the offense on the wing or at the top of the key, but I don't think Portland needs that out of him.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Roy has above average court vision and passing for a shooting guard. Bayless may have below average court vision and passing for a point guard. I'm not convinced that each player needs to be the platonic version of their position, so long as the "right amounts" of passing, scoring, rebounding and defense are there. In terms of court vision and passing, if Roy's above-average-ness at his position makes up for Bayless' below-average-ness at his, that seems like a fine model to work with.

I think distribution of "point guard" duties over both guards can work fine. Neither Bayless or Roy may be ideal point guards, but if they can both play-make to some extent, I'm willing to believe that that will be equivalent to the "traditional" model of a point guard who largely handles all the play-making duties and a shooting guard who doesn't do much distribution.

I don't think who specifically does what is the key. I think the key is that the team, overall, has all the things it needs. In an extreme case, if the team gets 10 RPG from its shooting guard and its power forward gets 4 RPG, I don't think that's a problem--all that matters is that the team gets all the rebounding it needs. In the case of the Blazers, I think the team will get all the passing it needs, as Bayless and Roy are probably at least average for NBA backcourts in terms of passing and Aldridge and Oden are probably above average for NBA front courts in terms of passing. Not having a classic point guard doesn't seem like a major issue.

As far as I'm concerned, the guard who plays alongside Roy would ideally have the following qualities:

1. Defends point guards well
2. Knocks down shots from the perimeter at a good clip
3. Slashes to the basket and finishes/draws fouls
4. Dishes to teammates when defense collapses on his drives

All of these things I believe Bayless is capable of. He has the tools and desire to be a good defender, he shot the ball well outside his sporadic playing-time rookie season, he showed an elite ability to get to the hoop and draw fouls even in his otherwise poor rookie season. I think he showed the passing ability in college and in summer league to find teammates off defensive attention he draws. He doesn't have the passing skill/court vision to initiate the offense on the wing or at the top of the key, but I don't think Portland needs that out of him.

So why Andre Miller then? If you don't think Portland needs him to initiate the offense EVER?

Why Andre Miller this year and next?

 

[Minstrel]

So why Andre Miller then? If you don't think Portland needs him to initiate the offense EVER?

Why Andre Miller this year and next?

Because point guard was their weakest position and he was the best point guard available. I don't think a traditional point guard is a bad thing, just not necessary. In addition, it appears that McMillan actually wants to play Miller off the bench to play more with Rudy. It's not a decision I necessarily agree with, but seems to fall in line with not feeling a need to pair a traditional point guard with Roy.

 

[LameR]

HE STINKS AND I HOPE HE IS TRADED TODAY. BUT KP DOESNT KNOW HOW TO MAKE A FAIR TRADE SO HE WILL BE ON THE BENCH POUTING IF U NEED HIM

So, according to you, Bayless stinks. Alright, let's go with that.

Also according to you KP doesn't know how to make a fair trade? So, you want KP to be able to make a fair trade, yes?

So, judging by your words, you want Jerryd to be traded, but don't think our GM is capable of making a fair trade, BUT you say Bayless is crap. So, by your logic, wouldn't a fair trade for Bayless get us crap in return?

 

[Natebishop3]

Because point guard was their weakest position and he was the best point guard available. I don't think a traditional point guard is a bad thing, just not necessary. In addition, it appears that McMillan actually wants to play Miller off the bench to play more with Rudy. It's not a decision I necessarily agree with, but seems to fall in line with not feeling a need to pair a traditional point guard with Roy.

The reason why I was most excited about adding Miller, and the reason why I believe a true point guard is crucial to the advancement of this team, is Greg mother fucking Oden. Brandon Roy may be the star of this team, but our championship hopes are on the shoulders of our young center. This team needs a true distributor to get Greg the ball when he's open.

 

[ODENISGOD]

The reason why I was most excited about adding Miller, and the reason why I believe a true point guard is crucial to the advancement of this team, is Greg mother fucking Oden. Brandon Roy may be the star of this team, but our championship hopes are on the shoulders of our young center. This team needs a true distributor to get Greg the ball when he's open.

DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WNNER!!!! im going to take a wild guess and say you have played basketball before. someome making some sense. my is day made!!!!!!!!!

 

[Idog1976]

You're riled up this afternoon.

I see you are new to the site...tis hardly a rare occurrence.

 

[illmatic99]

DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WNNER!!!! im going to take a wild guess and say you have played basketball before. someome making some sense. my is day made!!!!!!!!!

He has.

With Greg Oden in fact.

 

[MARIS61]

I'd rather have this guy as our 4th/5th PG than Bayless:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Fogle

 

[Idog1976]

The reason why I was most excited about adding Miller, and the reason why I believe a true point guard is crucial to the advancement of this team, is Greg mother fucking Oden. Brandon Roy may be the star of this team, but our championship hopes are on the shoulders of our young center. This team needs a true distributor to get Greg the ball when he's open.

I totally agree on the importance of Oden, and of getting him the ball when he is in position (one foot in the paint).

Where I have to part ways with you and agree with Minstrel, is on the lack of a need for a traditional pg. I am FAR from sold on Bayless, but the theory behind having him on the floor with Roy makes sense on paper. Only time will tell if Bayless works with Roy. That is assuming of course, that he gets the time on the court he needs to flourish. I'm not sure Nate will give him that time when Roy, Rudy, Miller and Blake are all assuredly ahead of him. If KP really believes in Bayless I think he might have to trade Blake for Bayless to see the floor. Even then I'm not sure Nate would give him minutes other then in garbage time.

Oden must be fed the ball in order to see the kind of growth we need out of him. His development is what our championship hopes rest on. He needs to be at least a moderate threat on offense (3rd or at worst 4th option) if we want to hoist the Larry O'Brien trophy. I think between Miller and Rudy that Oden will get his touches. If he doesn't I will be very worried indeed.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I've viewed Bayless as a Ben Gordon type of guard.

He's a SG plain and simple.

 

[ODENISGOD]

I've viewed Bayless as a Ben Gordon type of guard.

He's a SG plain and simple.

yes he's a shooting guard who cant shoot. i love those types

 

[Mediocre Man]

I liked Bayless before summer league, and I like him now. This summer the team asked Jerry to work on getting people more involved during summer league. Well, last year Bayless had a total of 4 assists, and this year he averaged that number. I think that speaks a lot to how hard he worked at it. Also keep in mind that Portland's offense is set up to give guys jump shots, and there weren't many shooters on the summer league team to help those assist numbers.

 

[mook]

Bayless seems to be trying to fundamentally change the way he plays, kind of like how Tiger Woods completely broke down his swing in order to improve. Summer league was disappointing if you were hoping to see him finishing up that revolution in his game. If, however, you realize the guy is only 21 and we don't need him for significant minutes for another year or two, what's the rush in coming to judgment?

Our days of trading into the lottery are probably over. Contending teams just don't do that much. But we've got a lottery level talent to keep on the back burner for a couple of years, so why not just wait and see what happens?

On paper he seems like he'll be an ideal fit next to Roy in a few years. What other team could we trade him to where you could say that he seems like an ideal fit next to a cornerstone shooting guard? I can't think of any. Most teams would rather try to develop a more well-rounded, pass-first PG. So he probably has more value to us than to any possible trading partner we could have.

Is he on the Travis Outlaw/Martel Webster plan where you have to wait 4 or 5 years to know what you've got? I don't think so. He's already shown far more in one summer league than either of those guys did in their first couple of years.

By this time next year, after a season playing third string PG and one more summer league, I think we should have a pretty good idea of whether we want to keep him or not.

 

[Blaze01]

I know everyone wants to bow down to Roy's "All-Around" greatness, but he does have some things to work on....

I think Roy is a good passer, but Miller is a much better pick and roll player...and better at finding easy opportunities for his big men...I thought there were times when Roy missed setting up Oden or Rudy for example on some easy passes and opted to force the issue himself or pass off to Blake\Outlaw instead....

I don't think Miller will have that problem....

and having 2 players (Roy & Miller) who can force the issue at the rim is good for the team overall....

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

I know everyone wants to bow down to Roy's "All-Around" greatness, but he does have some things to work on....

I think Roy is a good passer, but Miller is a much better pick and roll player...and better at finding easy opportunities for his big men...I thought there were times when Roy missed setting up Oden or Rudy for example on some easy passes and opted to force the issue himself or pass off to Blake\Outlaw instead....

I don't think Miller will have that problem....

and having 2 players (Roy & Miller) who can force the issue at the rim is good for the team overall....

Miller will make a huge impact.

If Coach allows it.

 

[mook]

I know everyone wants to bow down to Roy's "All-Around" greatness, but he does have some things to work on....

I think Roy is a good passer, but Miller is a much better pick and roll player...and better at finding easy opportunities for his big men...I thought there were times when Roy missed setting up Oden or Rudy for example on some easy passes and opted to force the issue himself or pass off to Blake\Outlaw instead....

I don't think Miller will have that problem....

Definitely. Also, great passing can become contagious. Roy has always been the best passer on his team. (Well, technically there was Sergio, but it's not like he was any kind of role model for Roy.)

My hope is that Roy playing next to Miller will open Roy's eyes to passes he just doesn't risk right now. Particularly the lobs to Oden, Aldridge and Fernandez.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I liked Bayless before summer league, and I like him now. This summer the team asked Jerry to work on getting people more involved during summer league. Well, last year Bayless had a total of 4 assists, and this year he averaged that number. I think that speaks a lot to how hard he worked at it. Also keep in mind that Portland's offense is set up to give guys jump shots, and there weren't many shooters on the summer league team to help those assist numbers.

You seem to be really into "PERS" . . . what is Bayless' PER?

I don't know where to find that stat . . .

 

[Mediocre Man]

You seem to be really into "PERS" . . . what is Bayless' PER?

I don't know where to find that stat . . .

I'll find it, but it is fugly.....and I mean fugly


8.28

 

[ODENISGOD]

Sergio is better then bayless. Enough said!!!

 

[Mediocre Man]

Sergio is better then bayless. Enough said!!!

I would be curious to see what Bayless' PER was when Blake was out and he knew he was going to play 20 minutes a night?

I know his numbers all went up, but I don't know about his PER

 

[ODENISGOD]

I would be curious to see what Bayless' PER was when Blake was out and he knew he was going to play 20 minutes a night?

I know his numbers all went up, but I don't know about his PER

PER this PER that. It doesn't really matter to me. Just watch the game you can tell who is doing the right things out there and who is making things happen. Batum is a great example of that. His value does not how up in the stat book. Bayless is a bust.

 

[Mediocre Man]

PER this PER that. It doesn't really matter to me. Just watch the game you can tell who is doing the right things out there and who is making things happen. Batum is a great example of that. His value does not how up in the stat book. Bayless is a bust.

If we are going off the naked eye, Bayless looked great. He can get to the rim, he defends the pick and roll so our bigs don't have to switch, other defenders have to play him to drive meaning another wing probably has an extra foot of space to get off a shot because he is on the floor and he gets the entire team fired up when he is out there.