So when we die and become eternal

[magnifier661]

Time is merely the next-higher dimension, through which our 3-D space passes. It seems eternal to us, but finite to a 4-D entity.

Just as we see 3-D objects as finite in length, but a linear 2-D creature would see a 3-D women's breast as infinite in width. He could pass down its length, but not perceive its width.

That's pretty interesting... So if it's possible to pass on to another conscious dimension, time would be like us looking at a picture?

 

[Minstrel]

If a perspective from outside time is possible and a fixed future already exists, wouldn't the flow of time (and the apparent free will) we experience be just an illusion?

"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." - Albert Einstein

Or, the more succinct version, "Time is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

It's entirely possible that time is purely a human construct, the way the brain interprets what we sense as cause and effect so that we can function. It's entirely possible that cause and effect don't function in the direction that we think they do or that they don't exist at all.

It's possible that everything that has happened is right in front of us all the time, but we can't perceive it that way, because that's not the type of machine we are.

 

[barfo]

Sounds like you are talking about the moon?

No, Denny.

barfo

 

[magnifier661]

No, Denny.

barfo

Hahaha that makes so much sense now!!! I wish I could rep you

 

[Minstrel]

Hahaha that makes so much sense now!!! I wish I could rep you

But you can't because he's a godless liberal and your daddy didn't raise you to rep such rabble?

 

[magnifier661]

But you can't because he's a godless liberal and your daddy didn't raise you to rep such rabble?

Hahaha no it's because I'm on tapatalk and it doesn't allow me to

 

[3RA1N1AC]

If the future is set, does that mean god is powerless to change it?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If the future is set, does that mean god is powerless to change it?

No, it means god is in hock to intergalactic gamblers who have bet on the outcome.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

You know god doesn't bet on black

 

[magnifier661]

If the future is set, does that mean god is powerless to change it?

That's interesting. Maybe if you look at time as like a river, God could be the engineer that can dam up one flow? Basically able to change an already existing time future to a new one.

 

[MarAzul]

"People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." - Albert Einstein

Or, the more succinct version, "Time is an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."

It's entirely possible that time is purely a human construct, the way the brain interprets what we sense as cause and effect so that we can function. It's entirely possible that cause and effect don't function in the direction that we think they do or that they don't exist at all.

It's possible that everything that has happened is right in front of us all the time, but we can't perceive it that way, because that's not the type of machine we are.

umm, I think you missed something. The Sun can not shine on both sided of the earth at the same instant, no matter how incapable my brain or yours.

 

[MarAzul]

You know god doesn't bet on black

Smart dude heh?

 

[Minstrel]

umm, I think you missed something. The Sun can not shine on both sided of the earth at the same instant, no matter how incapable my brain or yours.

How do you know that? You're only capable of perceiving what human brains can comprehend.

 

[Stevenson]

I think this idea that unless we can observe and measure it, it doesn't exist, is incredibly narrow-minded. We all only have 5 senses (well, except for Haley Joel Osment), and they can only observe so much.

From AskaBiologist: "It is true that we see more colors than some animals. However, some animals see colors we cannot." That doesn't mean these colors that we can't see don't exist, we just can't see or measure them.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet Act 1, scene 5

"Ninety-nine percent of who you are is invisible and untouchable." - R. Buckminster Fuller

 

[Minstrel]

I think this idea that unless we can observe and measure it, it doesn't exist, is incredibly narrow-minded. We all only have 5 senses (well, except for Haley Joel Osment), and they can only observe so much.

Indeed, you can look at it like this: If we had a person who lived their entire lives in a bunker a mile underground and never left it and all they knew of the surface was five sensors we gave them (let's say measuring temperature, wind speed, decibel level, air pressure and humidity), how good would their understanding of the surface world be? In some ways, they'd be more knowledgeable of the surface than we are on a moment to moment basis (very few of us know those measurements at any given moment) but they'd also be missing a massive amount of stuff.

We're basically in that same situation, a trapped brain with five senses out to the world. We can augment those senses to a degree, but even our measuring devices need to be able to present information that our brains are capable of understanding. It stands to reason that there's lots and lots of stuff that makes up reality that we don't perceive or know about...we're aware of a very thin slice of reality.

 

[barfo]

I think this idea that unless we can observe and measure it, it doesn't exist, is incredibly narrow-minded. We all only have 5 senses (well, except for Haley Joel Osment), and they can only observe so much.

That's certainly valid. Of course, it's also valid to say that it is pointless to assert that something that cannot be observed and measured does exist.

From AskaBiologist: "It is true that we see more colors than some animals. However, some animals see colors we cannot." That doesn't mean these colors that we can't see don't exist, we just can't see or measure them.

That's not really a good example. colors are just reflected light of various wavelengths, we can certainly measure that even if we cannot see it with our eyes.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I think this idea that unless we can observe and measure it, it doesn't exist, is incredibly narrow-minded. We all only have 5 senses (well, except for Haley Joel Osment), and they can only observe so much.

From AskaBiologist: "It is true that we see more colors than some animals. However, some animals see colors we cannot." That doesn't mean these colors that we can't see don't exist, we just can't see or measure them.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet Act 1, scene 5

"Ninety-nine percent of who you are is invisible and untouchable." - R. Buckminster Fuller

We have x-ray machines that can sense things we can't with our senses. That's the tip of that iceberg.

 

[magnifier661]

I think this idea that unless we can observe and measure it, it doesn't exist, is incredibly narrow-minded. We all only have 5 senses (well, except for Haley Joel Osment), and they can only observe so much.

From AskaBiologist: "It is true that we see more colors than some animals. However, some animals see colors we cannot." That doesn't mean these colors that we can't see don't exist, we just can't see or measure them.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet Act 1, scene 5

"Ninety-nine percent of who you are is invisible and untouchable." - R. Buckminster Fuller

I understand your concept. I see how others don't. What you should have said "we couldn't measure certain colors years ago but now we can".

Just because we can't measure things now does t exclude them from existing. Technology isn't advanced enough to measure them now.

 

[crowTrobot]

That's interesting. Maybe if you look at time as like a river, God could be the engineer that can dam up one flow? Basically able to change an already existing time future to a new one.

God meddling in things from outside time wouldn't change a deterministic future within time (if that is hypothetically the case). In other words God might have genuine free will to alter the course of the future, but humans still effectively wouldn't.

 

[magnifier661]

God meddling in things from outside time wouldn't change a deterministic future within time (if that is hypothetically the case). In other words God might have genuine free will to alter the course of the future, but humans still effectively wouldn't.

That makes sense. Then maybe the future is not possible now? What's your hypothetical take?