Soccer may be the most popular sport in the world

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Wheels said:
hell as someone who has been watching Division 2 soccer in the US for the last few years, I just cant wait to see the first through ball that connects :cheers:
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Ha! No doubt. I don't consider MLS to be 'major league', but damn, at least it's going to be an upgrade.
 
BGrantFan said:
Ha! No doubt. I don't consider MLS to be 'major league', but damn, at least it's going to be an upgrade.
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lol exactly. I think the MLS will take time. I'm just hoping to be able to compete with the Mexican League, and possibly Brazilian, and Argentenian leagues in the future... But we're talking 10-15 years down the road. Baby steps is all I can hope for. And hopefully the passion that is shown in Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver can help that.
 
One thing I like about soccer compared to other team sports is that it isn't micromanaged by anal coaches. Most team sports have near-constant interruptions that allow the coaches to try and manipulate what is going on. Excessive time management and tightwad officiating have completely put me off NBA (if anyone remembers I was pretty die hard up until about three years ago). I think this is why two halves of a soccer game are frequently so dissimilar--the coaches get a chance to change things up more so than they can by shouting from the technical area.
 
BGrantFan said:
I like watching soccer, and I like to play it, but in America, it's really just a sport for short white guys who aren't good enough or big enough to play football, basketball, or even baseball.

I just can't take American soccer seriously because all of the real athletes are playing in other sports. Imagine Mike Vick as a mid-fielder, or LeBron James as a keeper, or Steven Jackson as a fullback.
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onyewu_borgetti_1.jpg


Oguchi Onyewu disagrees with the above statement regarding little white guys.

That's also part of the draw and the detraction to soccer is that those guys look like average guys. Kids think they can be Landon Donovan as I'm sure many will be 5'8" and balding when they're 29. Of course, people who grew up on basketball and football where massive size is required don't realize that you have some of the greatest athletes in the world out there playing.

As much as I'd be curious to see what would happen with LeBron James if he grew up playing soccer, I don't think he'd be anywhere near as significant as he is in the NBA. When you get to a certain size and strength, it stops being beneficial for most positions. He also wouldn't even sniff the 265, or whatever, that he weighs currently. Onyewu is easily the biggest US field player, but even he is only 6'4" and 210.
 
Ed O said:
What gave you that idea?

Real Salt Lake? Seattle Sounders FC?

Ugh.

I have a lot of friends who love the Sounders, and I went to a playoff game last year... I got bored and was just thinking about how I'd pretty much wasted $50.

A couple of changes I'd implement:
-- Stop the clock after violations and out-of bounds. The "Extra time" thing is silly and always seems arbitrary.
-- Allow unlimited substitutions. Right now it's admirable that players have to run for 90 minutes, but I'd rather have hockey-like waves of fresh legs who can constantly sprint and pressure the ball than guys who (no matter how well conditioned) have to pace themselves.
-- If you leave the field--due to injury or substitution--you have to sit out for X number of game minutes (2? 3?). Because there are unlimited substitutions, guys who are legitimately fouled and flopping around on the field after can leave the pitch without leaving their team a man down, but they will have to take some time to recover... that should cut down on the amount of acting that goes on in an effort to draw a card.

It still might not be interesting enough for me to watch, but it would be a start.

Ed O.
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Thank god no one has to change anything just to please your asinine criteria for enjoyment. It's obnoxious and arrogant when people feel the need to post how the game should be changed to win their valuable fandom. I, for one, will be eternally happy that you're not a fan.
 
agoo101284 said:
onyewu_borgetti_1.jpg


Oguchi Onyewu disagrees with the above statement regarding little white guys.

That's also part of the draw and the detraction to soccer is that those guys look like average guys. Kids think they can be Landon Donovan as I'm sure many will be 5'8" and balding when they're 29. Of course, people who grew up on basketball and football where massive size is required don't realize that you have some of the greatest athletes in the world out there playing.

As much as I'd be curious to see what would happen with LeBron James if he grew up playing soccer, I don't think he'd be anywhere near as significant as he is in the NBA. When you get to a certain size and strength, it stops being beneficial for most positions. He also wouldn't even sniff the 265, or whatever, that he weighs currently. Onyewu is easily the biggest US field player, but even he is only 6'4" and 210.
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Great. Onyewu, Jozy Altidore, and a bunch of short white guys. There are exceptions to every stereotype. Do you disagree with my premise that our best athletes tend to gravitate to other sports? Unlike Brazil or England, as an example, where soccer is a national passion.
 
For those wanting to boost non MLS ratings in the US, Man Utd is on Fox Sports in a few minutes, live in HD. Inter Milan vs Tottenham on Fox Soccer Channel (HD if you're lucky) is on at the same time with FC Barcelona vs FC Copenhagen to follow.

I'll have to say I'm a bit disappointing with Fox's coverage of CL. When they won the contract, I was thinking we'd get 2 games a match day on Fox Sports HD or possibly Fx HD (for some reason I thought I heard they were going to use Fx). Instead, we get 1 game on Fox Sports HD per WEEK. Tomorrow, here in San Diego, the 12 PM slot on Fox Sports is a replay of the Lakers. Awesome! ESPN's coverage was much better. 1 game live on ESPN 2 and one on tape delay on ESPN News or Classic (forget which). Every match day had the same set up. Plus, I think the non aired games were on ESPN 3, but I could be wrong about that.
 
If anyone is planning on watching a game, I suggest watching Tottenham getting thrashed by Inter.
 
BGrantFan said:
Great. Onyewu, Jozy Altidore, and a bunch of short white guys. There are exceptions to every stereotype. Do you disagree with my premise that our best athletes tend to gravitate to other sports? Unlike Brazil or England, as an example, where soccer is a national passion.
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On the "current squad" from the USMNT wikipedia page:
Eddie Johnson
Jozy Altidore
Maurice Edu
Tim Howard
Jermaine Jones
Oguchi Onyewu

So that makes at least 6 players on the current team (I think it was the roster from a recent friendly) that are supposed "exceptions". I know we have a few players of Hispanic decent, so that would make nearly half the team an exception....The biggest problem soccer faces is that it is an expensive sport to play. There aren't pickup games like there are for basketball (not to the same extent at least) and to play club soccer can cost thousands of dollars per year. Between club fees, tournament fees and travel expenses, I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were spending 3-4k/year for my sister's soccer. I'm sure there were some kids on scholarship type deals, but I'm guessing the majority had to pay up.
 
BGrantFan said:
Great. Onyewu, Jozy Altidore, and a bunch of short white guys. There are exceptions to every stereotype. Do you disagree with my premise that our best athletes tend to gravitate to other sports? Unlike Brazil or England, as an example, where soccer is a national passion.
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Our "best athletes" are built for other sports. Many of our best athletes I wouldn't consider to be losses for the sport of soccer. The only ones I'd really put in the loss category are point guards, RB/CB/S, and the occasional baseball player. A LeBron James is more of a loss to rugby (I like that sport too) than soccer.

Even the huge soccer players, guys like Ibrahimovic and Vieira, are small by American athletic standards. Ibrahimovic is 6'4" and can't weight more than 190 lbs, Vieira is half an inch shorter and maybe slightly heavier, if at all. Some guys, Kevin Garnett comes to mind, could have been astounding goalkeepers, but when we already have Tim Howard as one of the world's best, that's no loss.

A wikipedia search of FIFA World Players of the Year shows that Marco Van Basten was the tallest winner ever and he's all of 6'2". Also consider the commonly accepted greatest players ever, Pele (5'8), Maradona (5'5), Cruyff (5'11), Best (5'9), Beckenbauer (5'11.5), Zidane (6'1), fat Ronaldo (6'0), Puskas (5'7), Eusebio (5'9.5).

The real losses for soccer are the inner city kids. We just don't have any around and that's where most of the world's best players come from. The sport just doesn't exist there. A lot of those kids grow up playing basketball and end up as those 5'11-6'2 shooting guards that are astounding high school and college players but have no shot at being really significant in the NBA.

Jerryd Bayless is a loss for soccer. Not LeBron James.
 
LBJ is a loss for MMA.
 
agoo101284 said:
Our "best athletes" are built for other sports. Many of our best athletes I wouldn't consider to be losses for the sport of soccer. The only ones I'd really put in the loss category are point guards, RB/CB/S, and the occasional baseball player. A LeBron James is more of a loss to rugby (I like that sport too) than soccer.

Even the huge soccer players, guys like Ibrahimovic and Vieira, are small by American athletic standards. Ibrahimovic is 6'4" and can't weight more than 190 lbs, Vieira is half an inch shorter and maybe slightly heavier, if at all. Some guys, Kevin Garnett comes to mind, could have been astounding goalkeepers, but when we already have Tim Howard as one of the world's best, that's no loss.

A wikipedia search of FIFA World Players of the Year shows that Marco Van Basten was the tallest winner ever and he's all of 6'2". Also consider the commonly accepted greatest players ever, Pele (5'8), Maradona (5'5), Cruyff (5'11), Best (5'9), Beckenbauer (5'11.5), Zidane (6'1), fat Ronaldo (6'0), Puskas (5'7), Eusebio (5'9.5).

The real losses for soccer are the inner city kids. We just don't have any around and that's where most of the world's best players come from. The sport just doesn't exist there. A lot of those kids grow up playing basketball and end up as those 5'11-6'2 shooting guards that are astounding high school and college players but have no shot at being really significant in the NBA.

Jerryd Bayless is a loss for soccer. Not LeBron James.
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I love that despite how good he was, I will always remember him now as "Fat Ronaldo".
 
agoo101284 said:
Our "best athletes" are built for other sports. Many of our best athletes I wouldn't consider to be losses for the sport of soccer. The only ones I'd really put in the loss category are point guards, RB/CB/S, and the occasional baseball player. A LeBron James is more of a loss to rugby (I like that sport too) than soccer.

Even the huge soccer players, guys like Ibrahimovic and Vieira, are small by American athletic standards. Ibrahimovic is 6'4" and can't weight more than 190 lbs, Vieira is half an inch shorter and maybe slightly heavier, if at all. Some guys, Kevin Garnett comes to mind, could have been astounding goalkeepers, but when we already have Tim Howard as one of the world's best, that's no loss.

A wikipedia search of FIFA World Players of the Year shows that Marco Van Basten was the tallest winner ever and he's all of 6'2". Also consider the commonly accepted greatest players ever, Pele (5'8), Maradona (5'5), Cruyff (5'11), Best (5'9), Beckenbauer (5'11.5), Zidane (6'1), fat Ronaldo (6'0), Puskas (5'7), Eusebio (5'9.5).

The real losses for soccer are the inner city kids. We just don't have any around and that's where most of the world's best players come from. The sport just doesn't exist there. A lot of those kids grow up playing basketball and end up as those 5'11-6'2 shooting guards that are astounding high school and college players but have no shot at being really significant in the NBA.

Jerryd Bayless is a loss for soccer. Not LeBron James.
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Mike Vick is a loss for soccer. Steven Jackson as well. Chris Paul, Aaron Brooks, etc. etc. I still think LeBron would be an incredible keeper had he grown up playing the sport. Thanks for the run-down on how short soccer players are, which was my point, except in the US, where our great short athletes play other sports, leaving the scraps to play soccer.
 
porkchopexpress said:
On the "current squad" from the USMNT wikipedia page:
Eddie Johnson
Jozy Altidore
Maurice Edu
Tim Howard
Jermaine Jones
Oguchi Onyewu

So that makes at least 6 players on the current team (I think it was the roster from a recent friendly) that are supposed "exceptions". I know we have a few players of Hispanic decent, so that would make nearly half the team an exception....The biggest problem soccer faces is that it is an expensive sport to play. There aren't pickup games like there are for basketball (not to the same extent at least) and to play club soccer can cost thousands of dollars per year. Between club fees, tournament fees and travel expenses, I wouldn't be surprised if my parents were spending 3-4k/year for my sister's soccer. I'm sure there were some kids on scholarship type deals, but I'm guessing the majority had to pay up.
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That's another part of the problem that we're just now starting to deal with. The youth development systems just didn't exist until the late 90s at best. Now MLS teams are required to have them, which is great, but only for the 16 American MLS cities. Texas has two MLS clubs and the state is constantly seeing players go to Mexico. College remains the major development arm of US Soccer, but they can barely even speak with a kid before he's 16.

Another part of the issue is that there is no money in developing players here. Arsenal can stock pile London kids and sell them off, even for cheap, to lesser clubs and recoup their investment. The Timbers can stock pile Portland kids, who will then go to college and get draft and the Timbers get zilch. Youth development investment just really isn't worth the money most of the time.

Also, just caught this, Jermaine Jones was born and raised in Germany so he doesn't really fit the list above.
 
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boatsandstars said:
Thank god no one has to change anything just to please your asinine criteria for enjoyment. It's obnoxious and arrogant when people feel the need to post how the game should be changed to win their valuable fandom. I, for one, will be eternally happy that you're not a fan.
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You seem pretty hostile for no apparent reason :)

I don't think that I care whether you're happy or not about my lack of being a fan. Are you invested in the MLS doing well?

If you are, and you don't care, then you're making a mistake because the changes I suggest would increase the chances of Americans paying attention.

Ed O.
 
agoo101284 said:
It would also so dramatically alter the game so much that it wouldn't be worth any of the suggested substitution changes. We would no longer be playing the world's game, but we'd have some bastardized verson of it that would further inhibit the chances of the US improving its abilities to play it. You're not suggesting minute differences like the trapezoid paint in FIBA vs. NBA. Having to run the full field for 90 minutes is what eliminates guys like LeBron James from being good at the game because I doubt he'd be able to carry 265 lbs. running 8-10 miles in a 90 minute period.
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Then don't count on Americans to become fans of the sport like other countries. This is the US, we have faster, more entertaining sports with better athletes. I'm sorry, but watching players kick the ball around for the better part of 90 minutes with rarely any scoring, just isn't going to win over the hearts of many Americans. I can think of about 10 sports I'd rather take part in, or watch.
 
Ronan said:
If anyone is planning on watching a game, I suggest watching Tottenham getting thrashed by Inter.
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Bale is making Inter's defense look horrible. That last run for the 3rd goal was pure class. And this after a hat trick at the San Siro.
 
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