Soccer Question

[THE HCP]

I didn't put this in the Timbers forum, cause it looks like nobody is ever over there. How much of a step down is the comp of the MLS compared to that of the Euro leagues? Like the Premier League? And why would a player like Beckam, Donovan or Henry play over here? Are they towards the downside of their careers?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And why would a player like Beckam, Donovan or Henry play over here? Are they towards the downside of their careers?

Money and yes they are.

 

[Natebishop3]

Money and yes they are.

Bekham more so than Donovan.

 

[ehizzy3]

mls is a huge step down from the top leagues in europe(epl, la liga, bundesliga, serie a, ligue 1, etc.)

 

[Paxil]

AJAX plays in Portland in a few weeks... you will get a change to see. =) Granted... they may not play their best players... hell... we may not... but it should be interesting.

 

[Wheels]

MLS will never be in the talent level of the EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, or Serie A... That is the top tier of Soccer. My hope is that this league keeps improving and gaining traction, and competes with the next tiers of Soccer like Eredivisie (Dutch League), Mexican League, Argentina and Brazilian leagues and so on. I think that can eventually happen.

 

[tlongII]

The Timbers are playing Ajax on May 25th. Should be able to guage the difference then to some degree.

 

[Wheels]

Still I take these friendlies with a grain of salt.. a lot of them are for the other teams pre-season so they are rusty, and the MLS teams have been playing for a month and even more so they are in form and at full fitness.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I've seen the USL Timbers play against three different EPL teams and the Timbers won once and tied twice. All three of those teams were recently promoted from the division below, playing on horrible turf, and in preseason, but I'll take it.

Euro leagues are generally top heavy. The big teams are amazing, but bottom 3-5 teams are more comparable to MLS's level of play than to the top 3-5 clubs in their own league.

Beckham and Henry are certainly past their primes, but could play an any of the top leagues if they wanted. Both of those guys have said they wanted to live in the US well before they ever came to MLS. Once they were done playing for their national teams they came to MLS rather then move to mid table teams in Europe.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Comparable to Basketball in USA and Europe only reversed?

 

[agoo]

The biggest differences are history and money. Real Salt Lake as a team makes 3.5 million dollars, which is probably less than the average salary (or even the low salary) among the starting XIs of top European clubs (Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, etc). There are three individuals in MLS who make more than Real Salt Lake (Beckham, Henry, Marquez). As a team, Salt Lake would not rank among the top 20 salaries in Europe. You can view all of the MLS salaries here in a PDF.

The history point is also significant and plays a part in the struggles that the US National Team has faced. A 12 year old academy player in Spain knows how his team is going to be playing when he's 20 and looking to break in with the senior squad and he knows how the Spanish national team will be playing when he's 22 and looking to break in there. A 12 year old in the US probably isn't part of an academy and is pretty much winging it with his development with hopes of going to a D-I college and then trying to break into MLS. If he's looking at how MLS looked 8 years ago and compares it to today and compares it to when he's 22 and looking to get drafted, it might as well be a different sport in many ways.

The roster restrictions are also significant. The kid in Spain I referenced will play with their youth side, then graduate to the B-side playing in meaningful league games, then move to the senior roster. The kid in the US will bounce around youth and rec leagues, then high school and travel clubs, then college, then get drafted to MLS with different coaching and different systems to learn at every level.

Its really difficult to compare the leagues. MLS is much better than some of the Euro-snob crowd will give it credit for, but its also not competing with the top seven leagues in Europe in terms of overall quality. A good MLS match will be better to watch than a Stoke-Sunderland punt and run fest, but given roster restrictions it would be hard to see MLS teams surviving the drop in any of the top five leagues.

As for the Timbers playing Ajax, I wouldn't put much stock in the results. Portland is playing for pride and the legitimacy of MLS, while I'm not really sure what Ajax is doing playing a friendly in May. For what its worth, Kansas City beat Manchester United last season and then didn't qualify for the playoffs.

 

[HailBlazers]

Comparable to Basketball in USA and Europe only reversed?

INDEED. Fairly good comparo.


If you notice Beckham and Henry are playing in LA and NY, it's obvious their just playing in the MLS to live in the US, get some scrill, and chill

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

How about a college football conference comparison.

Top Euro Leagues - SEC
MLS - WAC


This is a huge improvement though over lets say 5 years ago when it was SEC/Big Sky

 

[Wheels]

WAC before or after Boise St and Nevada leave?

 

[agoo]

INDEED. Fairly good comparo.


If you notice Beckham and Henry are playing in LA and NY, it's obvious their just playing in the MLS to live in the US, get some scrill, and chill

I would hesitate to lump Henry and Beckham in together. Henry probably could have gotten the same or comperable money from a French or English team, but is here to play in MLS. Beckham is here for the marketing money associated with his deal as its worth about 50 mil a year from what I remember. Henry showed up to play with Red Bulls from the beginning of training camp, while Beckham was with Tottenham. Henry spent his off-season off, while Beckham was going to AC Milan to maintain his pipedream that he's still a viable option for England. Henry is here for a new challenge, Beckham is here for Beckham.

 

[Wheels]

Agoo I'm a little curious to read your assesment on the Timbers now that we are a bit into the season. I'm not gonna try and get too crazy with their form, as most of their games right now are at home. What do you think of the Timbers now vs what you thought of them before the season? Just curious on an outsider's perspective.

 

[agoo]

My assessment isn't very thorough as I have only seen the JELD-Wen Park opener when they dominated Chicago (at least I think it was Chicago). Regardless, my assessment is the same now as it was then. Timbers have no backbone in central defense or midfield. They'll play well against the lower half of MLS because they have immense talent up top and on the wings, but good clubs will destroy them in the middle of the pitch. Chara could be a difference maker, but I think there's a great need for a stand-out central defender if the Timbers are going to be good this season. Jewsbury is a respectable player, but no all-star and the central defenders aren't capable of compensating for a weak defensive midfield.

 

[THE HCP]

You can view all of the MLS salaries here in a PDF.

What is the meaning of GUARANTEED COMPENSATION?

 

[agoo]

Not entirely sure. I've pretty much given up on attempting to follow MLS salary cap and roster rules.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

The biggest differences are history and money. Real Salt Lake as a team makes 3.5 million dollars, which is probably less than the average salary (or even the low salary) among the starting XIs of top European clubs (Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, etc). There are three individuals in MLS who make more than Real Salt Lake (Beckham, Henry, Marquez). As a team, Salt Lake would not rank among the top 20 salaries in Europe. You can view all of the MLS salaries here in a PDF.

The history point is also significant and plays a part in the struggles that the US National Team has faced. A 12 year old academy player in Spain knows how his team is going to be playing when he's 20 and looking to break in with the senior squad and he knows how the Spanish national team will be playing when he's 22 and looking to break in there. A 12 year old in the US probably isn't part of an academy and is pretty much winging it with his development with hopes of going to a D-I college and then trying to break into MLS. If he's looking at how MLS looked 8 years ago and compares it to today and compares it to when he's 22 and looking to get drafted, it might as well be a different sport in many ways.

The roster restrictions are also significant. The kid in Spain I referenced will play with their youth side, then graduate to the B-side playing in meaningful league games, then move to the senior roster. The kid in the US will bounce around youth and rec leagues, then high school and travel clubs, then college, then get drafted to MLS with different coaching and different systems to learn at every level.

Its really difficult to compare the leagues. MLS is much better than some of the Euro-snob crowd will give it credit for, but its also not competing with the top seven leagues in Europe in terms of overall quality. A good MLS match will be better to watch than a Stoke-Sunderland punt and run fest, but given roster restrictions it would be hard to see MLS teams surviving the drop in any of the top five leagues.

As for the Timbers playing Ajax, I wouldn't put much stock in the results. Portland is playing for pride and the legitimacy of MLS, while I'm not really sure what Ajax is doing playing a friendly in May. For what its worth, Kansas City beat Manchester United last season and then didn't qualify for the playoffs.

Thanks for the analysis, appreciate it.

I think soccer in the US is a littel more competitive at the young age than you are giving credit. Many kids are playing competitive club soccer at U11 level and most clubs start them younger in a developmental league (much higher caliber than rec soccer). Westside, THUSC andFC Ptd (a club started by UoP) , I hear these clubs that play kids year round starting at U10 are the funnel to division 1 play (not high school).

But I get your point that US is way behind Europe and agree. I also think Europes best athletes end up playing soccer where US best athletes end up playing other sports.

 

[Paxil]

My assessment isn't very thorough as I have only seen the JELD-Wen Park opener when they dominated Chicago (at least I think it was Chicago). Regardless, my assessment is the same now as it was then. Timbers have no backbone in central defense or midfield. They'll play well against the lower half of MLS because they have immense talent up top and on the wings, but good clubs will destroy them in the middle of the pitch. Chara could be a difference maker, but I think there's a great need for a stand-out central defender if the Timbers are going to be good this season. Jewsbury is a respectable player, but no all-star and the central defenders aren't capable of compensating for a weak defensive midfield.

The team looked very different the last two games... much better defensively and much better with starting Chara and Nagby. It will be interesting to see what they can do on the road in Seattle this weekend.

 

[Wheels]

I think Chara and Nagbe have helped immensely with the ability to keep the ball or string together more than 2 passes in the Midfield. Also Purdy was Solid but when he was starting IMO Brunner had to cover for him a lot on the Counter attack. Hall moving back there has helped with that. And Alhassan being a freaking monster has helped too. I love Futty, but I am very glad Horst is working his way back in for some depth back there.

 

[Wheels]

My assessment isn't very thorough as I have only seen the JELD-Wen Park opener when they dominated Chicago (at least I think it was Chicago). Regardless, my assessment is the same now as it was then. Timbers have no backbone in central defense or midfield. They'll play well against the lower half of MLS because they have immense talent up top and on the wings, but good clubs will destroy them in the middle of the pitch. Chara could be a difference maker, but I think there's a great need for a stand-out central defender if the Timbers are going to be good this season. Jewsbury is a respectable player, but no all-star and the central defenders aren't capable of compensating for a weak defensive midfield.

thank you

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

WAC before or after Boise St and Nevada leave?

Before

 

[Wheels]

Before

I can handle that, with the infancy of this league

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I can handle that, with the infancy of this league

Yea....once salaries go up where 1 million a year for a decent player isnt unheard of, the MLS will be really strong. You got some guys on the team making 50k a year. Thats garbage IMO

 

[THE HCP]

I can't believe how little these guys make.

 

[THE HCP]

What is the meaning of GUARANTEED COMPENSATION?

ANYBODY?

 

[Wheels]

Yea....once salaries go up where 1 million a year for a decent player isnt unheard of, the MLS will be really strong. You got some guys on the team making 50k a year. Thats garbage IMO

yep agreed.. and while I really want to expedite that process of getting there.. I like how the league seems to be organically growing its roots and not overspending which would be the death of the league. They are bein gvery careful to not go the NASL route.

 

[Wheels]

ANYBODY?

better rep me FAMS

The annual average guaranteed compensation number includes a player's base salary and all signing and guaranteed bonuses annualized over the term of the player's contract, including option years. For example, if a player has a base salary of $50,000, has a two-year contract with two one-year options and received a $10,000 bonus when he signed, his average annual guaranteed compensation would be $52,500 (base salary plus signing bonus ($10,000), with the signing bonus divided by the number of years covered by the contract (4)). The average annual guaranteed compensation number also includes any annual marketing bonus to be received in the current year and any agent's fees annualized over the term of the contract. The average annual guaranteed compensation figure does not include performance bonuses because there is no guarantee that the player will hit those bonuses.

http://www.mlsplayers.org/salary_info.html