Some GREAT info from Quick (What Billups investigation took place, where Dame stands with the Team)

[Scalma]

well that's the argument Olshey is probably making. I thought we underacheived, but this roster isn't anything more than second round fodder even if everything breaks right.

what roster? Last years? Sure. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to break up the core. Weren’t you the one arguing about Thibs taking relatively the same roster to the playoffs a couple days ago? It’s not always a quick fix, and I think Olshey alluded to that yesterday. A different style of play and better role players could make a bigger difference than some surface level trade of CJ.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Nurk, Covington, Simons, Little and 2 firsts/2 swaps for Towns seems like fair value? But is Minny ready to move on from Towns? And if they are, Nurk and RoCo don't really have much value to them.

I don't think they are ready to move on. I think they finally have the pieces in place and they just need to all play together,

 

[wizenheimer]

Norman Powell wasn’t good in the playoffs either yet for some reason a lot of people want him back at what’s going to be over $20 million/year. Unless CJ is traded, bringing Powell back doesn’t seem like a good move to me if he’s going to be a 6’3” SF alongside Dame and CJ.

Powell was a hell of a lot better than CJ in the playoffs:



and he did that while have to defend Porter or Gordon, two guys he was giving away 5-7 inches too. Meanwhile, CJ was defending Rivers or Morris. In fact, in the last game of the series, when Powell sat it was Dame that spent a lot of time guarding Porter

what I've seen suggested is trading CJ and moving Powell in into the starting SG role. If Powell signs as 3-year/60M contract, that would see Portland paying 13M/year less for the starting SG. I agree it's a bad idea to have a 6'3 starting SF; I'd guess Powell thinks it's a bad idea too. But that's the corner Olshey's stubbornness had backed Stotts and the Blazers into this season

 

[riverman]

Not a bad idea but I could see CJ wanting out and $30 million for a 6th Man is a lot of salary space.

I always compare that Kevin McHale was a super star 6 man..he was also the 2nd highest paid player on the Celtics behind Larry Bird..I think he'd win that award if he bought into it..I also think as a 6 man he's not competing with Dame for the ball...the 30 million is on the books no matter whether he starts or comes off the bench..it's just paying for bench scoring in my view and the only thing it doesn't buy is the swagger of having your name called out before tip off by Mark Mason...CJ is worried about his status he should demand a trade to the eastern conference to pretty much guarantee himself and allstar berth...he won't get one in the west

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Because it you think it's the latter, and CJ can be turned into a passable defender and a more efficient offensive player under the tutelage of a guy who was a pretty efficient, team-0riented point guard, the need to move CJ might have diminished considerably.

I would rather that some other team took the risk of that ever happening.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

View attachment 39328

Well shit.

I like seeing Siakam in the top six.

 

[riverman]

I like seeing Siakam in the top six.

Siakam almost came to blows with Nick Nurse on the court last season..they had a serious falling out...he wants out of Toronto

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Powell was a hell of a lot better than CJ in the playoffs:

View attachment 39329

and he did that while have to defend Porter or Gordon, two guys he was giving away 5-7 inches too. Meanwhile, CJ was defending Rivers or Morris. In fact, in the last game of the series, when Powell sat it was Dame that spent a lot of time guarding Porter

what I've seen suggested is trading CJ and moving Powell in into the starting SG role. If Powell signs as 3-year/60M contract, that would see Portland paying 13M/year less for the starting SG. I agree it's a bad idea to have a 6'3 starting SF; I'd guess Powell thinks it's a bad idea too. But that's the corner Olshey's stubbornness had backed Stotts and the Blazers into this season

Yeah, I suggested that the only way re-signing Norm makes sense is to trade CJ. As I’ve said, playing Dame/CJ/Norm major minutes together makes for one of the worst defensive teams in the league and coaching won’t fix the size deficit. Norm isn’t going want to play SF again and defend much bigger players every night and Olshey can’t justify matching a $20-25 million/year contract to run that same tiny trio out for another chance as starters when they got smoked by what on paper was an inferior Denver team.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah the lux tax bill is a huge pill to swallow. I have no idea how far into the tax ownership is willing to go, but it likely won't be for a long time anyhow. If at any point they decide to blow it up, trading Dame will get them out of the tax and fully into rebuilding mode.

I think next season is 'do-or-die-sink-or-swim-put-up-or-shut-up' time for the Dame era

looking at the payroll for the season after next, it gives whoever the GM is an option to blow it all up and start over



(Green font are QO's)

Portland would only have 3 players with guaranteed salaries. Blazers could trade Dame and CJ and kind of combine the Philly & OKC models of getting totally shitty and maximizing the quantity and quality of draft picks for 2-4 years

not only would it be a pivot point, both financially and roster-wise, if they kept the team together that years would be the beginning of repeater tax penalties. The only justification for continuing the dream would be an undoubted contending team.

I have a hunch this is what Olshey has sold to Seattle: one more year of luxury tax to 'prove-out' the Dame/CJ team with a new coach

 

[B-Roy]

I totally forgot Jerami Grant was on the Olympic team.

Would Detroit do two firsts for Grant?

Jones + S&T Kanter as a salary filler will get you to that number...

 

[illmatic99]

what roster? Last years? Sure. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they need to break up the core. Weren’t you the one arguing about Thibs taking relatively the same roster to the playoffs a couple days ago? It’s not always a quick fix, and I think Olshey alluded to that yesterday. A different style of play and better role players could make a bigger difference than some surface level trade of CJ.

i certainly hope billups can have a similar effect but we know nothing about how he'll be as coach. what happened in NY would be the absolute best scenario

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Names:

Zach LaVine
Bradley Beal
Pascal Siakam (scares me because his surgery won't have him ready by training camp)
DeMar Derozan
Ben Simmons
Karl Anthony-Towns
Tobias Harris
Kevin Love
Gordon Hayward
Brandon Ingram

It's my uneducated opinion that at least one of these players will be on our team next year.

Pair Ingram and Towns with Dame and let's see who can stop that troika.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

I always compare that Kevin McHale was a super star 6 man....I think he'd win that award if he bought into it..I also think as a 6 man he's not competing with Dame for the ball...the 30 million is on the books no matter whether he starts or comes off the bench..it's just paying for bench scoring in my view and the only thing it doesn't buy is the swagger of having your name called out before tip off by Mark Mason...CJ is worried about his status he should demand a trade to the eastern conference to pretty much guarantee himself and allstar berth...he won't get one in the west

Isn’t it basically just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, though? Playing Dame/CJ/Norm at crunch would still happen and it just didn’t work. It’s one of CJ or Norm, isn’t it? I hope CJ along with Zach’s expiring QO can bring a Siakim or similar player around the draft and then re-sign Powell. Now that’s an upgrade.

Dame
Norm
Pascal
RoCo
Nurk

Yes please

 

[B-Roy]

I think next season is 'do-or-die-sink-or-swim-put-up-or-shut-up' time for the Dame era

looking at the payroll for the season after next, it gives whoever the GM is an option to blow it all up and start over

Totally agree.

Portland would only have 3 players with guaranteed salaries. Blazers could trade Dame and CJ and kind of combine the Philly & OKC models of getting totally shitty and maximizing the quantity and quality of draft picks for 2-4 years

not only would it be a pivot point, both financially and roster-wise, if they kept the team together that years would be the beginning of repeater tax penalties. The only justification for continuing the dream would be an undoubted contending team.

I have a hunch this is what Olshey has sold to Seattle: one more year of luxury tax to 'prove-out' the Dame/CJ team with a new coach

Yes to a degree. But the unforseen variable was Dame. Everything we've seen in the last month has been Dame's way of putting pressure on Neil to improve the roster. Honestly, forget CJ as part of this equation. He can stay or he can go it doesn't really matter. The roster as a whole needs to be significantly better. I don't think ownership wants to rebuild, I don't think they want to trade Dame at all. And I think if next year fails they aren't going to keep Olshey on as the decision maker for the rebuild.

 

[riverman]

Isn’t it basically just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, though? Playing Dame/CJ/Norm at crunch would still happen and it just didn’t work. It’s one of CJ or Norm, isn’t it? I hope CJ along with Zach’s expiring QO can bring a Siakim or similar player around the draft and then re-sign Powell. Now that’s an upgrade.

Dame
Norm
Pascal
RoCo
Nurk

Yes please

whos your 6 man with this roster? Melo?

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Pair Ingram and Towns with Dame and let's see who can stop that troika.

Scoring isn’t the problem there, is it? Towns is awful on defense and Ingram is average, at best.

And we all know Dame isn’t exactly Gary Payton.

 

[KristinthBonkers]

Totally agree.



Yes to a degree. But the unforseen variable was Dame. Everything we've seen in the last month has been Dame's way of putting pressure on Neil to improve the roster. Honestly, forget CJ as part of this equation. He can stay or he can go it doesn't really matter. The roster as a whole needs to be significantly better. I don't think ownership wants to rebuild, I don't think they want to trade Dame at all. And I think if next year fails they aren't going to keep Olshey on as the decision maker for the rebuild.

Which is why I don’t understand why so many people want Zach gone. If he accepts the QO that expiring contract adds one more asset in a trade as filler, and Neil doesn’t have many of those at his disposal at present.

 

[TBpup]

this site is terrific

3 of the top 10 trending players being traded are Blazers.

Dame
CJ
RoCo

 

[illmatic99]

3 of the top 10 trending players being traded are Blazers.

Dame
CJ
RoCo

after this past week in the news, everyone thinks we'll blow it up

 

[B-Roy]

Okay more speculation on my part, but this guy doesn't tweet information unless he is certain of his source (He had Harden wanting out before anyone else):





He's saying ownership, Olshey and Dame all have growing issues with each other. This seems to make sense in the grand scheme of things.

Ownership: Doesn't want to lose Dame and tank the value of the team, especially if they want to sell at some point.

Olshey: Doesn't want to push all in and give up all future flexibility for someone that may or may not make us a contender.

Dame: Wants us to push all in. Done being patient and giving Olshey the benefit of the doubt.

Ownership putting pressure on Olshey to make Dame happy, using his job as leverage, but maybe without all the financial resources. Olshey thinks his roster is good enough with the right coach to win. Dame wants significant roster improvements. Who is going to win out?

From the meeting yesterday, my guess is Dame. But we will see. This offseason and the ensuing NBA season is do or die.

 

[B-Roy]

Which is why I don’t understand why so many people want Zach gone. If he accepts the QO that expiring contract adds one more asset in a trade as filler, and Neil doesn’t have many of those at his disposal at present.

They can sign Kanter to be the trade filler, and Kanter can actually play!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Scoring isn’t the problem there, is it? Towns is awful on defense and Ingram is average, at best.

And we all know Dame isn’t exactly Gary Payton.

I'm banking on the coaching change having a much greater impact on our defense than the personnel. With Norm and Roco in the lineup alongside those three, I think the defense could be league average, while the offense would be balanced and unstoppable. That'd be good enough for me.

 

[illmatic99]

Quick talked to Dame directly after the season and Dame said nothing about being unhappy. It was an off-the-record discussion so he couldn’t go too deep into it..

Go listen to his segment last night with RoppSuke on the 1080 app. Also, why worry so much about something none of us fans can control.

This was terrific insight. Worth the listen: https://www.audacy.com/1080thefan/podcasts/primetime-with-isaac-and-suke-20359

 

[Hoopguru]

Dame's got a great situation in Portland and he has said so. However, since Terry being fired and most fans pushing for his bud CJ to be traded it good be a domino effect and many in here were concerned about it, including me.
Hopefully the first task that Chauncey can accomplish is settling things down and getting team chemistry right.

 

[illmatic99]

Long story short, Dame wants BIG change. Next time he takes the floor in Portland, he wants the home team to have a decided talent advantage over nearly every opponent. He doesn't want just change along the margins and tweaking the rosters, he wants more. Quick said this is the first time he has felt unsure of what's going on in Dame's mindset. Quick also noted that Neil might not have the assets to pull off a move like what Dame wants, and that's the cause for concern here, but Neil is fully aware that he has to be more aggressive than he normally would.

Also as @KristinthBonkers says, he also went into a bit more in a personal convo with Dame that he made an agreement not to reveal to the public (not sure how this is relevant, but classic Quick anecdote for you).

 

[Natebishop3]

Long story short, Dame wants BIG change. Next time he takes the floor in Portland, he wants the home team to have a decided talent advantage over nearly every opponent. He doesn't want just change along the margins and tweaking the rosters, he wants more. Quick said this is the first time he has felt unsure of what's going on in Dame's mindset. Quick also noted that Neil might not have the assets to pull off a move like what Dame wants, and that's the cause for concern here.

Also as @KristinthBonkers says, he also went into a bit more in a personal convo with Dame that he made an agreement not to reveal to the public (not sure how this is relevant, but classic Quick anecdote for you)/

I legitimately despise when reporters tease something that they will never reveal to the public. If you know something and you can't tell us, just stfu.

 

[illmatic99]

I legitimately despise when reporters tease something that they will never reveal to the public. If you know something and you can't tell us, just stfu.

as do i, but i think it was said to provide some legitimacy to his insight without just saying unnamed sources. it's annoying but not a big deal.

 

[B-Roy]

This only works because the Pistons are under the cap. Can replace Jones with Nurkic since I'm not sure what to do with Nurk after this deal. Maybe route him somewhere else and give some value back to one of the teams. Re-sign Powell.

Dame/Simons
Powell/Simons
RoCo/Nas
Grant/Simmons?
Simmons/Nurk

THAT is a team.

 

[Hoopguru]

Maybe Dame thinks Jody should pay luxury tax to go after FA's.

 

[illmatic99]

View attachment 39331

This only works because the Pistons are under the cap. Can replace Jones with Nurkic since I'm not sure what to do with Nurk after this deal. Maybe route him somewhere else and give some value back to one of the teams. Re-sign Powell.

Dame/Simons
Powell/Simons
RoCo/Nas
Grant/Simmons?
Simmons/Nurk

THAT is a team.

if that's all it took to get Grant, I'd keep CJ and use our other pick to see if we can package with a S&T'd Powell for an upgrade at SF