Some Random Thoughts

[SportsTicker]

--Richard Jefferson can not carry a winning team. Sorry, absent another scorer, upfront or in the backcourt, he can't do it. Sure, he averaged 28.1 ppg in the 10 game stretch between Jason Kidd's return and Vince Carter's arrival in 2004, and sure he is averaged 25 ppg now, but in both those cases, the team sucked.</p>

--Nenad Krstic won't be ready til January and not January 1. There will be good games followed by bad games, then setbacks, then a good game. Somewhere in the middle there will be some revelation about his condition.</p>

--Jason Collins days as a starter are numbered. His days as a significant member of the team are numbered. His skill set is much less valuable in a league going smaller. </p>

--Jamaal Magloire needs an extended stretch to see what, if anything, he can do. If not, he joins the pantheon of Thornski free agent busts thatincludes Chris Childs, Rodney Rogers, Jeff McInnis, Ron Mercer, etc., etc. Thorn and Stefanski are great at trades, big and small. They are mostly very good at the draft. At free agency, they are D-League level.</p>

--Boki Nachbar started slowly last year. This represents my only hope in this category. He has lost confidence and he wasn't even hitting his long shots in preseason.</p>

--Sean Williams may very well lead the league in blocks. He leads in blocks per minute already and is in 5th place overall, first among rookies. However, everyone should remember he started playing basketball when he was 16 years old and has played only one year of high school ball, three (suspension-shortened) years of college ball and seven games in the NBA. He is going to make a lot of mistakes...and all this adulation of him could have an effect on his personality.</p>

--This team misses Marcus Williams, or at least the Marcus Williams we saw in summer league.</p>

--Until Krstic looks better, they will have to keep Malik Allen. At the first sign that Krstic is fully ready, he should be dropped and a shooter (Allan Houston?) signed. The Nets are unbalanced.</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Is this true...? The Nets just extended his contract.</p>

But I really hope he is a goner this season, I know he is a hard-working coach, but he is not a winning coach.</p>

</p>

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I know he is a hard-working coach, but he is not a winning coach.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

He's the winningest coach in Nets history, and has made the playoffs all four years he's been here despite working for the Keystone Kops of GM tandoms.</p>

</p>

</p>

 

[Universe]

Marcus and Sean are all we have to look forward too if this team doesn't start playing well.</p>

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Marcus and Sean are all we have to look forward too if this team doesn't start playing well.</p>

</div></p>

Most depressing post ever.</p>

Thanks, Thornski!</p>

</p>

 

[Universe]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Marcus and Sean are all we have to look forward too if this team doesn't start playing well.</p>

</div></p>

Most depressing post ever.</p>

Thanks, Thornski!</p>

</p>

</div></p>

I rock the emo-ness.</p>

 

[jarkid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I know he is a hard-working coach, but he is not a winning coach.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

He's the winningest coach in Nets history, and has made the playoffs all four years he's been here despite working for the Keystone Kops of GM tandoms.</p>

</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

You are just expressing the surface, not the truth.</p>

Yeah, but we never get pass the second round, which Heat, Cavs, Pistons could get pass easily.</p>

If you were easily to get satisfied by just participating the playoffs, then I will give you a A+.</p>

 

[Dumpy]

Without havning seen this game--thank goodness for blackouts--there's some I agree with and some I don't.</p>

--Richard Jefferson can not carry a winning team. Sorry, absent another scorer, upfront or in the backcourt, he can't do it. Sure, he averaged 28.1 ppg in the 10 game stretch between Jason Kidd's return and Vince Carter's arrival in 2004, and sure he is averaged 25 ppg now, but in both those cases, the team sucked. Agree, and I think everyone has understood this since then. I think RJ helps MAKE you a winning team, but he can't CREATE one.</p>

--Nenad Krstic won't be ready til January and not January 1. There will be good games followed by bad games, then setbacks, then a good game. Somewhere in the middle there will be some revelation about his condition. Agree, and I'm not sure I want him back next year, anyway.</p>

--Jason Collins days as a starter are numbered. His days as a significant member of the team are numbered. His skill set is much less valuable in a league going smaller. Disagree with your assessment, but I don't know what you mean by a "significant member." Collins can be effective when used with the right personnel, and that starts with Kidd and RJ. I thought that a Kidd-Wright-RJ-Collins unit would be effective, but now it is becoming clear that it isn't the case. Collins does some things very well, but his deficiencies are really exposed unless the nets have the right people on the floor with him, and that seems to now include Carter or someone of his ilk. I'm happy, though, with Kidd-Carter-RJ-Collins--I think that is pretty effective, depending on the fifth member . . . who should be someone who can mesh with both Kidd and someone who can score in the post and rebound. Hence, the Kidd-Carter-RJ-Sean-Collins unit. I think it would be tremendous, although obviously Sean will make a ton of mistakes at this point. If that isn't successful, I'll jump right on the "Collins is useless" wagon. Anyway, in my world, Collins would just play 15-20 minutes a night anyway, so not sure if that makes him not "significant." I do think, though, that if you use him with a unit of reserves he would be completely worthless.</p>

--Jamaal Magloire needs an extended stretch to see what, if anything, he can do. If not, he joins the pantheon of Thornski free agent busts thatincludes Chris Childs, Rodney Rogers, Jeff McInnis, Ron Mercer, etc., etc. Thorn and Stefanski are great at trades, big and small. They are mostly very good at the draft. At free agency, they are D-League level. To me, it's not so much their failure at the free agent game (which is for suckers), but their inability or refusal to look for longer-term projects in young unsigned free agents. Other GMS find players like Udoka and matt barnes and Diawara, etc., but the Nets don't try, instead signing some random vet to a one-year deal, and then doing it again the next year. There's no continuity, they can't improve, and it just doesn't work. As for magloire, he is a bust. he is terrible. He's made somthing like two FGs on the season, can't hit his free throws, and plays poor defense--minus 15 in less than ten minutes yesterday, after Collins held Howard in check. </p>

--Boki Nachbar started slowly last year. This represents my only hope in this category. He has lost confidence and he wasn't even hitting his long shots in preseason. Wondering whether his summer off has had any affect. Maybe his conditioning isn't as good as it was.</p>

--Sean Williams may very well lead the league in blocks. He leads in blocks per minute already and is in 5th place overall, first among rookies. However, everyone should remember he started playing basketball when he was 16 years old and has played only one year of high school ball, three (suspension-shortened) years of college ball and seven games in the NBA. He is going to make a lot of mistakes...and all this adulation of him could have an effect on his personality. He's fun to watch and that's all that I care about. No one else is entertaining.</p>

--This team misses Marcus Williams, or at least the Marcus Williams we saw in summer league.Well, I prefer to say that Armstrong hasn't been very good, even though he tries hard. He seems to commit a turnover on every other possession and the offense bogs down when he's in the game. For this we passed on Robert Hite? [see my comment above]</p>

--Until Krstic looks better, they will have to keep Malik Allen. At the first sign that Krstic is fully ready, he should be dropped and a shooter (Allan Houston?) signed. The Nets are unbalanced. Obviously Allen is around solely as Krstic insurance. Why the Nets think they need a jump-shooting bigin the starting lineup (when Carter is healthy, at least) is beyond me.</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.I'd rather Thorn and Stefanski aren't back next year. You can't build a team by switching the complimentary parts every year.</p>

</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

</p>

 

[unstop]

Good post. Horrible and sad, but good and true.</p>

Thank god for Sean Williams though. The possibility of him playing is the only reason I'm watching anymore. And yeah, given consistently good minutes, he is easily this league's leading shotblocker.</p>

I also think it's time to start him in place of Nenad. Leave Collins there for now to guard the other team's best big and keep Sean out of early foul trouble. Then it's Kidd, Wright, RJ, Williams and Collins. That is quite the defensive lineup.</p>

And then... we run. Take this new "slightly more motion offense" and shove it up Frank's ass. Run. Just f'ing run. Out run and out jump the opposing team. Combined with D, it's the main reason those other Nets teams were good. With the amount of stops this lineup should get (including the 75 blocks Williams will average per quarter), there will be plenty of chances to run. This puts Kidd, RJ and Williams (and maybe even Wright and Boki as well) in a position to do what they do best. It also gives us a way to actually, you know, score points since it appears we may never score a point in the halfcourt ever again.</p>

New team slogan: Just F'ing run.</p>

 

[CelticKing]

I don't think its Franks fault at all. Players are to be blamed for not playing up to their level and not playing with intensity. So Carter is injured, that shouldn't stop the rest from getting out there and getting some wins and showing some pride that they play for the Nets.</p>

Frank has been great for you guys, I don't think it makes sense firing him after just a couple of games.</p>

A coach that deserves firing is Isiah. haha</p>

 

[ghoti]

[quote name='jarkid']</p>

[quote name='ghoti']</p>

[quote name='jarkid']</p>

[quote name='NetIncome']</p>

</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

</p>

I know he is a hard-working coach, but he is not a winning coach.</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

He's the winningest coach in Nets history, and has made the playoffs all four years he's been here despite working for the Keystone Kops of GM tandoms.</p>

</p>

</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

</p>

You are just expressing the surface, not the truth.</p>

Yeah, but we never get pass the second round, which Heat, Cavs, Pistons could get pass easily.</p>

If you were easily to get satisfied by just participating the playoffs, then I will give you a A+.</p>

[/QUOTE]</p>

No, I am expressing a fact.</p>

And of the players, management and coaching staff, I give the highest grade to the coaches.</p>

</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

Yeah, but I give them a F grade.</p>

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Yeah, but I give them a F grade.</p>

</div></p>

Then you overrate the Nets players.</p>

Which I guess is OK for you, but not for the guys running the team.</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

<font style="background-color: #d8d0c8">No, I doesn't overrate the Nets player. I blame the coach for his rotation, and game decision.</font></p>

 

[ghoti]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<font style="background-color: rgb(216, 208, 200);">No, I doesn't overrate the Nets player. I blame the coach for his rotation, and game decision.</font></p>

</div></p>

He's played every player and given them all plenty of minutes.</p>

At some point, isn't it obvious that he's just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic?</p>

There are no magic answers on that bench, and there never have been.</p>

Some fans think the best players are the ones not in the game. That's stupid. The best players are the best players, and the Nets haven't had enough of them to take the next step.</p>

So Thorn and Stefanski wasted Kidd's last good years and last year they admitted it was over.</p>

Who should be fired, again?</p>

</p>

 

[CelticKing]

Exactly ghoti, how can the coach be blamed when he isn't given good players to use on games?</p>

Stefanski and the players he chose are to be blamed.</p>

 

[jarkid]

No, Stefanski and Thorn give Frank so many good players to play,</p>

but he doesn't know how to play them.</p>

For example, if we had not got blown out in the earlygames, Sean Williams willnever see the plenty of PT.</p>

Giving every players many minutes, is just happened these days, but I don't like the way he is doing now,</p>

The rotation is just a mess, you can not say : Hey, He gives every players chance.</p>

In fact, that's false. He plays every big men, but the Minutes is just so stupid,</p>

you can give DNP for Boone for two games, and next time you give him 5 or 6 minutes to play,</p>

how can he play well right away? Playing Malik Allen in plenty minutes is just another woe for the Nets.</p>

He just doesn't know how to control the lineup.</p>

And in the hornets game, he played Collins in the final minutes, it's just another mistake,</p>

so Collins made those crucial turnover and Chris Paul could make a layup easily while Sean Williams who blocked him 3 times early is not there.</p>

 

[jarkid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Exactly ghoti, how can the coach be blamed when he isn't given good players to use on games?</p>

Stefanski and the players he chose are to be blamed.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Thank you for caring about the Nets (assuming), celtics fan.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

</p>

--Lawrence Frank will not be back next season.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

I know he is a hard-working coach, but he is not a winning coach.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

He's the winningest coach in Nets history, and has made the playoffs all four years he's been here despite working for the Keystone Kops of GM tandoms.</p>

</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

LOL.</p>

We haven't gotten out of the second round. Same problems exist every year, no coaching growth at all.</p>

 

[Jizzy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Exactly ghoti, how can the coach be blamed when he isn't given good players to use on games?</p>

Stefanski and the players he chose are to be blamed.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

</p>

You said Frank should be fired yesterday.</p>

 

[CelticKing]

That was a joke Jizzy, Frank is actually one of my favorite coaches in the NBA.</p>

 

[CelticKing]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Exactly ghoti, how can the coach be blamed when he isn't given good players to use on games?</p>

Stefanski and the players he chose are to be blamed.</p>

</div></p>

</p>

Thank you for caring about the Nets (assuming), celtics fan.</p>

</div></p>

Oh no problem jarkid.

</p>

</p>

 

[GMJ]

I talked about how Frank is not a leader amongst men yesterday, and how I don't think he can motivate or inspire confidence in his players. If we're trying to compare coaching to GM's, then I place the blame on Frank. The way I see it, we've had problems with a team that doesn't live up to their potential. The way I interpret this is that our expectations of this team, this idea of how a team looks on paper, is credited to the people who bring in these supposed great players in. The team that doesn't live up to their potential, the team that actually suits up on the court, is the Frank-lead team.</p>

If you say that a coach isn't getting all they can out of their players, you inherently recognize that players are being brought in that perform at a higher level.</p>

Plus although I disagree in Thorn's FA choices thus far (Magloire is terrible right now, but I'm not ready to close the book on him), his drafting and trading has been solid. I mean look at the players he brought in that took us to the big show.</p>

So how do I explain this descrepancy? The ownership In trades and drafting there is relatively no outside restrictions for Thorn to worry about; there's no self-handicapping on the Nets parts unless they're in the FA market, where we have an owner that restricts spending over the tax. If we had the Knicks payroll and our bench would be filled with Pietruses, Varajaos, and not Bufords and Padgents.</p>

We have an ownership group that cares more about a housing project than the game of basketball. I hope that for their sake, and ours, they sell their majority share once the new arena is done.</p>

 

[SportsTicker]

Thorn and Stefanski have made some bad decisions, but let's just remember the track record of those before them.</p>

Thornski have made three GREAT trades, not just good trades but GREAT trades to get Kidd, Carter and Jefferson. They have also made some very good trades, like getting Nachbar for nothing, Mikki Moore and Cliff Robinson for second round picks. I am not going to mention the KMart trade, but in retrospect, it was a good deal. They have made one horrendously bad trade: Dikembe Mutombo for Van Horn and MacColluch, and one time bomb trade (blows up in your face later) in selling Korver.</p>

Draft picks are mixed but if Sean Williams and Marcus Williams continue theirrapid development and Krstic returns to form, that's three picks of lottery level talent at 17, 22 and 24in the past five years. The rest of them are fair to poor (Wright, Planinic, selling the '04 pick).</p>

Free agent signings have been a disaster. The Nets often succeeded in the first two categories by taking troubled players and putting them in good situations. But the players they signedhave beeneither malcontents, fat guys, or both (Childs, Rogers, McInnis and possibly Magloire).</p>

Saying you don't want Krstic back, based on two weeks of significant rehab is just silly.</p>

</p>

</p>

 

[Aurelino]

This team lacks shooters. The Nets could really use House and Moore right now. Allen is supposed to fill in Moore's role but so far he hasn't been able to show us anything. On top of that, Krstic is still not his own self so they are not able to use him in pick-and-roll situations. if you look at the roster minus Carter, who can you call a legitimate scoring threat? RJ when he is in his groove. That's it. Kidd is very streaky and Wright and Nachbar are confidence players who are up and down. I am surprised that they even scored 70 points. This is just an unbalanced team with almost no scoring options.</p>

 

[GMJ]

I don't know, I have doubts as to how well Houston's shot is; if its at the level that we need (like House). This guy couldn't get on a team this year. Sure he had roster spots working against him, but if he can really light up like we need him to, I think he'd already be on a team.</p>

 

[Dumpy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Saying you don't want Krstic back, based on two weeks of significant rehab is just silly.</p>

</div></p>

If you're referring to me, that's not why I said I don't care if he comes back. When healthy, Krstic is a good player, but I'm not sure he's the RIGHT player for the Nets. I think he'd be pretty valuable off the bench, but I suspect that the Nets would have to overpay him for someone in that role, and I also suspect that Coach Frank would start him anyway. I mean, let's play a little game. I'll give you Kidd and, what the heck, Carter. Describe in words the skills you want the rest of the roster (say, 10 more players) to have with the caveat that, since you've just used up about half your salary structure, everyone else on the roster will have either one significant weakness or be about average in a number of things. Is there an imaginary player on your team like Krstic? Is he starting? I'm not kidding about this, either. This would be your optimal team within salary constraints.</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

Your boy Collins missed the final two FTs to let the Heat win the game easily. And he was not a starter.</p>

Great News.</p>

 

[GMJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jarkid)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Your boy Collins missed the final two FTs to let the Heat win the game easily. And he was not a starter.</p>

Great News.</p>

</div></p>

You're supporting your own argument, not taking anything away from Dumpy's. I don't think you understand what he's saying.</p>

I said this in the game thread and I'll say this again: Collins got the job done by sending Shaq to the line. His uncharacteristically high FT% should not take away from the strategy being used.</p>

</p>

 

[jarkid]

We can foul Shaq even we play Mile Ilic.</p>

Collins should not be the game the last moment, Frank's fault, too.</p>