OT Something nice I read about Portland

[Jade Falcon]

She was addressing meeting up with Marzy when he goes to San Fran.

Ah, got it, thank you.

 

[MarAzul]

She was addressing meeting up with Marzy when he goes to San Fran.

But they have to at least support my equal civil rights.

Can't be the case Sly. I fully support civil rights, yours, mine, and hers. Every other US citizen for that matter.

 

[crandc]

Housing is expensive around here not because wages are high (there are a lot of low-medium income people) but simply because demand outstrips supply. Due to high employment, if not high wages. High employment is a good thing, of course, but cities did not plan well for growth, building housing is not as profitable as other structures, and there are so many people looking landlords and real estate can jack up prices because SOMEONE will have enough money to pay. The rest drive hours daily, or cram multiple people into small units, or are homeless. I pay a relatively low rent, but it's not a great neighborhood, the house, which sits directly on the Hayward fault, is poorly built and the landlord expect me to be responsible for repairs and maintenance, so instead of paying in rent I am paying in handyperson, electrician, etc. Like this Saturday someone is repairing my exhaust fan, last month the outlets in my kitchen all went out, etc.

Unless I am much mistaken (and if so I apologize) MarAzul has opposed marriage equality. Anyone who says I am not entitled to the same rights they have does not support full civil rights.

 

[Minstrel]

Can't be the case Sly. I fully support civil rights, yours, mine, and hers. Every other US citizen for that matter.

Would you say you support every citizen's civil rights as much as Jeff Sessions does?

 

[MarAzul]

Would you say you support every citizen's civil rights as much as Jeff Sessions does?

I agree. But I am surprised you would know.

 

[riverman]

It's happening in Eugene now...demand for houses is outstripping supply here. It's been like that in SF for decades...back in the 70s the bay area folks were all moving to the Sierras or Oregon...Californians have definitely inflated housing prices up here by offering above market prices and squeezing out many local buyers or renters.

 

[andalusian]

Housing is expensive around here not because wages are high (there are a lot of low-medium income people) but simply because demand outstrips supply. Due to high employment, if not high wages. High employment is a good thing, of course, but cities did not plan well for growth, building housing is not as profitable as other structures, and there are so many people looking landlords and real estate can jack up prices because SOMEONE will have enough money to pay.

While this is true in general, the situation is worse specifically in SF is the building restrictions that disapprove of high-rises in the city zone regulations. Basically, San Francisco is limited in where it can expand, for all practical purposes, it can only expand vertically, but the zoning regulations do not allow this.

 

[crandc]

Right, Andalusian, but housing is tight in the entire area, SF, peninsula, East Bay from Richmond Bridge to Livermore. And traffic getting worse as people have to drive farther and BART is way over capacity.

Anyone who says Jefferson Beauregard Session III, who was considered too racist to be a judge in the 80s, who called the gutting of the Civil Rights Act a "victory for the South" and prosecuted King's aids for registering Black voters, who insisted on the executive order removing protection from transgender students, received a zero from Human Rights Campaign, to be the model for civil rights, is unlikely to support equality.

 

[MarAzul]

Anyone who says I am not entitled to the same rights they have does not support full civil rights.

I have never said this. Your are of course entitled to all rights we have been granted by the creator and the Constitution of the US. You won't find a post that refutes this.

 

[Jade Falcon]

While this is true in general, the situation is worse specifically in SF is the building restrictions that disapprove of high-rises in the city zone regulations. Basically, San Francisco is limited in where it can expand, for all practical purposes, it can only expand vertically, but the zoning regulations do not allow this.

California is so goddamn stupid. This sounds JUST like a typical California problem too.

Christ. How do people live there? It's no wonder people are moving away. The problem is, they take this same dumbass mentality with them that got them regulated out of California in the first place.

Fucking seriously, I hear all the time these self-righteous douchebags who live in the Silicon Valley lecture people on Social Media about how the rest of the country is shit, and that they live in some kind of shining example of the perfect society. But it sure doesn't seem like it!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

California is a massive bubble of stupidity. Its only a matter of time where it all catches up, and the US will have to bail it out eventually.

 

[Jade Falcon]

California is a massive bubble of stupidity. Its only a matter of time where it all catches up, and the US will have to bail it out eventually.

It's a real shame. I lived there until I was 12 before my family moved up here in 1995. I've personally been to almost every corner of that state; from the south coast to the northern Sierra Nevada mountains. There are many beautiful places there.

But fuck, you are right: it's just a giant bubble of stupidity right now; the whole state.

 

[MarAzul]

Yes, but they really need some more dams built. Another up Coyote creek would have cost less than the flood last week.
Geez when the water comes, they don't save it. When the drought comes, the bitch like hell about climate change.

The real problem is their populations has doubled since the last dams were built, and they are afraid of those.

 

[Jade Falcon]

Yes, but their really need some more dams built. Another up Coyote creek would have cost less than the flood last week.
Geez when the water comes, their don't save it. When the drought comes, the bitch like hell about climate change.

The real problem is their populations has doubled since the last dams were built, and they are afraid of those.

This. Well said.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

While this is true in general, the situation is worse specifically in SF is the building restrictions that disapprove of high-rises in the city zone regulations. Basically, San Francisco is limited in where it can expand, for all practical purposes, it can only expand vertically, but the zoning regulations do not allow this.

This is somewhat similar to Portland, but Portland's high rent is largely self inflicted. San Francisco is constrained by geography. Virtually all available land on the peninsula has been developed. Portland has the Urban Growth Boundary, which artificially (to a point) increases property values by limiting growth/development. The shortage of available properties has lead to bidding wars for virtually every residential property that comes up for sale. And "larger" inner city lots are being carved up so more house can be shoehorned in. Buyers don't care about yards and privacy, so long as they can live in Portland. We have plenty of room to sprawl if we want to destroy prime farmland and encourage housing developments to spread from Portland to Eugene....and beyond. Fortunately, our "blue" majority has stopped that from happening so far. But the pilgrims from (especially) California certainly haven't helped the situation, as @riverman has pointed out. Now, because they can't find housing in Portland, they're skewing the real estate market in the areas surrounding Portland (and is why @Jade Falcon's rent has skyrocketed....and property values in formerly affordable Vancouver have taken off). To really illustrate just how bad it is becoming, property buyers have actually begun to focus on Salem, after years of ignoring it and/or pretending it didn't exist (not hard to do). Property values there have started to significantly increase and there appears to be no end in sight. And it's only going to get worse in the Willamette Valley as more and more climate change refugees make their way here. Of course, these refugees (and some of you think foreign refugees are a plague!) are the folks who will help destroy the UGB and our already waning quality of life eventually.....I was born and raised in Portland, but, all it's charms aside, it ain't what it used to be and never will be again.....

 

[MarAzul]

There are many beautiful places there.

This is somewhat similar to Portland, but Portland's high rent is largely self inflicted. San Francisco is constrained by geography. Virtually all available land on the peninsula has been developed. Portland has the Urban Growth Boundary, which artificially (to a point) increases property values by limiting growth/development. The shortage of available properties has lead to bidding wars for virtually every residential property that comes up for sale. And "larger" inner city lots are being carved up so more house can be shoehorned in. Buyers don't care about yards and privacy, so long as they can live in Portland. We have plenty of room to sprawl if we want to destroy prime farmland and encourage housing developments to spread from Portland to Eugene....and beyond. Fortunately, our "blue" majority has stopped that from happening so far. But the pilgrims from (especially) California certainly haven't helped the situation, as @riverman has pointed out. Now, because they can't find housing in Portland, they're skewing the real estate market in the areas surrounding Portland (and is why @Jade Falcon's rent has skyrocketed....and property values in formerly affordable Vancouver have taken off). To really illustrate just how bad it is becoming, property buyers have actually begun to focus on Salem, after years of ignoring it and/or pretending it didn't exist (not hard to do). Property values there have started to significantly increase and there appears to be no end in sight. And it's only going to get worse in the Willamette Valley as more and more climate change refugees make their way here. Of course, these refugees (and some of you think foreign refugees are a plague!) are the folks who will help destroy the UGB and our already waning quality of life eventually.....I was born and raised in Portland, but, all it's charms aside, it ain't what it used to be and never will be again.....

Very good UCD! Self inflicted indeed.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Yes, but they really need some more dams built. Another up Coyote creek would have cost less than the flood last week.
Geez when the water comes, they don't save it. When the drought comes, the bitch like hell about climate change.

The real problem is their populations has doubled since the last dams were built, and they are afraid of those.

They don't need more dams. Everyone built reservoirs in their backyards.

 

[riverman]

People are eventually going to have to come to terms with the reality that it's not good to live near the watershed, coast or on a flood plain....The natives thought the Pilgrims were nuts to build a city on a swamp...unfortunately, people will risk it for that ocean view. Contrary to popular belief..real estate can depreciate if poorly located

 

[crandc]

Riverman, all urban centers were built on major waterways - rivers, oceans, large lakes. They grew from town built there. Of necessity due to need to transport goods and people. It's not a matter of wanting an ocean view.

Cities, like organisms, evolve.

Far from people moving away, California is growing. If people were moving away housing would become cheaper, obviously. Supply and demand.

 

[MarAzul]

They don't need more dams. Everyone built reservoirs in their backyards.

I never would have thought of that!

 

[andalusian]

California is so goddamn stupid. This sounds JUST like a typical California problem too.

This is not a California issue. This is a SF issue.

Christ. How do people live there? It's no wonder people are moving away. The problem is, they take this same dumbass mentality with them that got them regulated out of California in the first place.

California has a positive growth (more people move into California than leave). How do people live here? Great actually, but it is not cheap, the salaries do reflect this however (in some places better than others). I lived in Portland for a long time, in Marin county (North of the GG bridge) and now in San Diego county. I loved Portland and always will, but I also love California and can not see myself leaving. Like everywhere else - it has it's good and bad portions - but overall, California is an amazing place to live.

 

[andalusian]

Right, Andalusian, but housing is tight in the entire area, SF, peninsula, East Bay from Richmond Bridge to Livermore. And traffic getting worse as people have to drive farther and BART is way over capacity.

Well, of course. The entire area is populated and in many places it is the terrain that restricts it. Lived in Marin county for a while - beautiful place, but the terrain limits you pretty much as well.

SF specifically however is certainly an issue with zoning regulations.

 

[andalusian]

California is a massive bubble of stupidity. Its only a matter of time where it all catches up, and the US will have to bail it out eventually.

California economy has been on a roll for about 5 years now - out-performing just about every other state in the union.

Given that for every dollar spent in federal taxes California sees about 0.9 coming back - California is actually bailing out the rest of the country, not the other way around. I know it is easy to say things like "California is stupid" and "Taxed to death" - but the reality is that it actually works very well for California, better than most other places in the nation.

No need to get facts get in the way of the self righteousness however...

 

[andalusian]

This is somewhat similar to Portland, but Portland's high rent is largely self inflicted. San Francisco is constrained by geography. Virtually all available land on the peninsula has been developed. Portland has the Urban Growth Boundary, which artificially (to a point) increases property values by limiting growth/development.

I used to live right on the edge of the UGB - it was wonderful, 1/2 a mile from my house had open agricultural spaces. While it certainly causes the prices to go up - the alternative are giant concrete jungles like Dallas or LA - a lot of the charm of Portland is a result of the UGB.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

"Facts" are debatable. We are in a fraudulent economy. Once the bubble pops, all will be revealed.

 

[andalusian]

"Facts" are debatable. We are in a fraudulent economy. Once the bubble pops, all will be revealed.

Facts are never debatable. They are binary. They are either true or not. This is why they are facts.

The state's GDP growth has out-stripped just about any other state in the country. It is a fact. The deficit that was inherited from the Arnold area has mostly been eliminated (from over 20B in '11-'12 to actually being in the black in the last 3 years, although they are estimating a deficit in the upcoming year without some budget changes (nowhere near as bad as it was in the Arnold time).

You can argue that the financial stability California had in the last years will not continue - this is an argument that can be made, but facts are facts.

 

[Minstrel]

I agree. But I am surprised you would know.

Believe me, I know all about Sessions and how much he values civil rights. I think it's fair to say that you and he have similar respect for civil rights. So we are definitely in agreement!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Facts are never debatable. They are binary. They are either true or not. This is why they are facts.

The state's GDP growth has out-stripped just about any other state in the country. It is a fact. The deficit that was inherited from the Arnold area has mostly been eliminated (from over 20B in '11-'12 to actually being in the black in the last 3 years, although they are estimating a deficit in the upcoming year without some budget changes (nowhere near as bad as it was in the Arnold time).

You can argue that the financial stability California had in the last years will not continue - this is an argument that can be made, but facts are facts.

The American economy has improved only built on the Federal Reserve's stimulus program. Its not real, the economy is totally dependent on the FED. As the state with the largest economy in the US, California bears the most of this imaginary success.

 

[crandc]

And yet, when I retire, hopefully in a couple of years, I will either stay in the East Bay or go to Portland. I know I could live cheaper many other places, but would I want to?

 

[The Professional Fan]

You clap for sizzling fajitas.

That's fucking hilarious