Something you'd never see now

[crandc]

This 1956 Republican Party Labor Day poster praising unions.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Nobody praises unions now.

Except maybe unions. And I think a lot of unions hate themselves.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Nobody praises unions now.

Except maybe unions. And I think a lot of unions hate themselves.

Why? Longshormen maqke $135,000/year, UAW workers over $100,000/year, public employees unions have driven states bankrupt and the every day people are footing the bill...

 

[Mediocre Man]

Unions are a drain on our finances. Most all of them make way too much money for the work they do.

 

[crandc]

Of course paying CEOs of failed companies $18 million while firing all the workers doesn't drain resources from the economy.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Why? Longshormen maqke $135,000/year, UAW workers over $100,000/year, public employees unions have driven states bankrupt and the every day people are footing the bill...

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.... but exactly my point as to why nobody likes unions, except unions (though, there are some unions out there that hate themselves).

People bag on public employees. I get it somewhat. But there are a lot of public employees making less than what they would if they were in the private sector (not saying this is true in every area/job type of public employees, but in several). They have given up less annual earnings for more help upon retirement. Another American situation where we choose to defer payments from today and pay in the future, but the money isn't there. Now, we want to take the money back that was promised to them 30+ years ago? They don't get to start over and go into the private sector to earn back the money they missed out on. That's a bit fucked up that people expect them to. I get it with the people who've got significantly less time - you reform your promise going forward, but you don't take back the promises you've made.

Longshoremen have long been atop my shit list. They have so much influence over consumer pricing, it's absolutely ridiculous. They have American consumers by the balls. Every time they want something, they throw shit-fits when they know companies have to bow down and give them everything they need. I mean, threatening strikes during the busiest time of the year? When our economy is struggling? Seems a bit selfish to me.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Of course paying CEOs of failed companies $18 million while firing all the workers doesn't drain resources from the economy.

This.

This is also bullshit.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Of course paying CEOs of failed companies $18 million while firing all the workers doesn't drain resources from the economy.

Also bullshit. The big difference here is that if a CEO fails enough, they will get the ax, while union workers can continue failing forever with absolutely no worry.


Sorry, but if you are pro union in this day and age, you are not very smart, or you work for one

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Also bullshit. The big difference here is that if a CEO fails enough, they will get the ax, while union workers can continue failing forever with absolutely no worry.


Sorry, but if you are pro union in this day and age, you are not very smart, or you work for one

I know several people working for unions, and even they hate it.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I know several people working for unions, and even they hate it.

I get the good of unions. I also see the bad. I have several very good friends who work for a union, and they all love it. Job stability, great benefits, You don't have to bust your butt to get ahead, incredible pay for the job skill.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i work overhire for a union once or twice a year, wont take a card though

 

[Mediocre Man]

i work overhire for a union once or twice a year, wont take a card though

Probably enough to pay for your mortgage for the year

 

[maxiep]

I prefer to let the market decide wages. If you want a high wage, make yourself valuable. If not, it's your own damn fault.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I prefer to let the market decide wages. If you want a high wage, make yourself valuable. If not, it's your own damn fault.

BOOM! Don't come in here with reasonable ideas, maxiep! Don't try to be fair, sensible, and logical! We need to protect the slackers just as well as we do the hard-workers!

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Probably enough to pay for your mortgage for the year

fuck i wish...no, but if im not busy ill take a days work here and there for some extra scratch

they like their smoke breaks and donuts

 

[3RA1N1AC]

you can be valuable even at a menial job, factories dont want to have to constantly retrain people every two weeks

 

[maxiep]

you can be valuable even at a menial job, factories dont want to have to constantly retrain people every two weeks

Exactly right.

 

[jlprk]

Crandc, you broke out of your 1-issue tunnel vision and actually said something from the left. This is a rare moment.

Crandc is correct. Unions used to try to counterbalance Big Business, but corporations are much more practiced in the art of dirty politics. The compromise between left and right was the strength of American capitalism. The economic system has been run ragged because only business has any influence, on either political party. With no strong center, the right has the freedom to become extremist, so the imbalanced ship is sinking and cannot be rescued. Big Business depended upon unions more than you rightists will ever realize.

 

[MARIS61]

The big difference here is that if a CEO fails enough, they will get the Golden Parachute.

Sorry, but if you are not in a union or self-employed in this day and age, you are not very smart, and you work for far less than you deserve.

FIFY

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I prefer to let the market decide wages. If you want a high wage, make yourself valuable. If not, it's your own damn fault.

Talk about idealistic.

 

[Mediocre Man]

FIFY

I had it right the first time, so really you fixed it for you.

 

[crandc]

Market? Hostess goes under, pays $18 million to executives and lays off all the workers. I've sure never been canned and got $18 million.

I don't know where longshore workers get $130,000. I've known longshore workers in Seattle and Oakland who don't get anywhere near that. They do get fingers and toes crushed, asbestos and arsenic exposure, and some get backs broken. Frankly I think they are more deserving of $130,000 than most pencil pushers who do get that kind of money. As for state/local budgets, it's hardly the "extravagant" pay of teachers and DMV clerks that are breaking the banks. Funny how people turn on $50 K public workers (or $15K farmworkers) but have no problem with $50 million tax breaks for corporations and wealthy? Swallow an elephant and choke on a gnat.

My point was Eisenhower would be considered a raving lefty radical by today's Republican Party.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Anything you say or post can and will be held against you. Thus, the derailment to the point of your thread.

As for longshoremen pay rates..... There's been a lot in the news up here recently, as one strike was recently averted (PoP security guards) and a second one looms (longshoremen). In one article I had read, it said something to the effect that longshoremen were unhappy with the most recent pay rate offer, which was some around $73-75/hour.

 

[maxiep]

Talk about idealistic.

Yep. I'm an economic idealist facing the reality of corrupt governments and unions warping the work of the Invisible Hand.

 

[maxiep]

Market? Hostess goes under, pays $18 million to executives and lays off all the workers. I've sure never been canned and got $18 million.

The Board of Directors could have negated those bonuses. Usually, they are "retention" bonuses, as Hostess needs these people to stay on to liquidate the assets. As for you never receiving money when you were fired, perhaps you never developed a skill that has value in the marketplace.

I don't know where longshore workers get $130,000. I've known longshore workers in Seattle and Oakland who don't get anywhere near that. They do get fingers and toes crushed, asbestos and arsenic exposure, and some get backs broken. Frankly I think they are more deserving of $130,000 than most pencil pushers who do get that kind of money. As for state/local budgets, it's hardly the "extravagant" pay of teachers and DMV clerks that are breaking the banks. Funny how people turn on $50 K public workers (or $15K farmworkers) but have no problem with $50 million tax breaks for corporations and wealthy? Swallow an elephant and choke on a gnat.

I hate corporate welfare, too. So that we have in common. Let the market decide. And physical work is tough. To me, it's a young person's game. It shouldn't be a lifetime job. It's their responsibility to develop their own skills. If they choose not to do so, then that's their own problem.

My point was Eisenhower would be considered a raving lefty radical by today's Republican Party.

And Kennedy resembled a Reagan Republican more than a Democrat. What's your point?

 

[BlazerWookee]

Unions used to try to counterbalance Big Business, but corporations are much more practiced in the art of dirty politics.

And you think the ESPN mod is insane?

 

[maxiep]

And you think the ESPN mod is insane?

There are folks on this board who simply aren't worth taking seriously. jlprk is one of them.

 

[jlprk]

That's it, motivate me...

I prefer to let the market decide wages. If you want a high wage, make yourself valuable. If not, it's your own damn fault.

I prefer to let the market decide prices of goods. If you want to sell an expensive product, make it valuable and leave it unpriced for each consumer to voluntarily price at each moment of sale. If you can't sell a Twinkie, it's your own damn fault. And instead of negotiating wages with workers, you should just voluntarily let them be paid whatever they want.

That Libertarianism from the workers' viewpoint would be a mirror equivalent of what you want, which is for unions to not negotiate for good wages, and for everything to be involuntary on the side of workers and consumers, as structured by the rich employer's side.

 

[jlprk]

Market? Hostess goes under, pays $18 million to executives and lays off all the workers. I've sure never been canned and got $18 million.

The Board of Directors could have negated those bonuses. Usually, they are "retention" bonuses, as Hostess needs these people to stay on to liquidate the assets. As for you never receiving money when you were fired, perhaps you never developed a skill that has value in the marketplace.

So no one will wrap up the accounting for under $18 million. Well I will. Debit Equity and Liabilities, credit Assets. Next?

Exactly what $18 million skill is it that you are critical of union members for not having?