Speaking of no talent U.S. born white centers

[magnifier661]

I'm actually starting to really enjoy Leonard more. He is still very raw; but I noticed his skills are improving with each game. If he could rebound and position defend with more efficiency; he will be an awesome pick-up for us. I still have high hopes on this kid. He definitely gots that Vanilla Gorilla type intimidation quality about him. At least the desire to be that type of player.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I'm actually starting to really enjoy Leonard more. He is still very raw; but I noticed his skills are improving with each game. If he could rebound and position defend with more efficiency; he will be an awesome pick-up for us. I still have high hopes on this kid. He definitely gots that Vanilla Gorilla type intimidation quality about him. At least the desire to be that type of player.

I love Leonard the person. He is quirky and goofy. I really hope he turns into a double double guy at some point. Like Drummond has been doing lately. That guy looks like what Greg Oden lite would have looked like healthy. He has been impressive so far.

 

[Hobbesarable]

I love Leonard the person. He is quirky and goofy. I really hope he turns into a double double guy at some point. Like Drummond has been doing lately. That guy looks like what Greg Oden lite would have looked like healthy. He has been impressive so far.

And he's aggressive on the court. He'll be fine once he controls his foul rate.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

If Leonard averaged 10 and 9 in 31 minutes a night for most of his career would that be a disappointment to most people?

After re-looking up Joel's stats they weren't that impressive outside of rebounding:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/przybjo01.html

 

[magnifier661]

I love Leonard the person. He is quirky and goofy. I really hope he turns into a double double guy at some point. Like Drummond has been doing lately. That guy looks like what Greg Oden lite would have looked like healthy. He has been impressive so far.

I was really hoping that drummand would drop to the 11th pick. It was actually pretty close. Out of all the centers that came out of last years draft, Drummand was the one I was goo goo for.

 

[magnifier661]

If Leonard averaged 10 and 9 in 31 minutes a night for most of his career would that be a disappointment to most people?

After re-looking up Joel's stats they weren't that impressive outside of rebounding:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/przybjo01.html

I would! I would be really happy if our 11th pick produced 10/10/1.5 blocks per game. I would be ecstatic if he averaged 2.5 blocks a game though.

I think you are missing the greatest asset Pryzbilla gave us. He was an intimidator and the guy that would alter shots around the rim. I can't remember how many times he would scratch a dunk attempt on great finishers. That is a great asset man!

 

[Hobbesarable]

I would! I would be really happy if our 11th pick produced 10/10/1.5 blocks per game. I would be ecstatic if he averaged 2.5 blocks a game though.

I think you are missing the greatest asset Pryzbilla gave us. He was an intimidator and the guy that would alter shots around the rim. I can't remember how many times he would scratch a dunk attempt on great finishers. That is a great asset man!

And he could set a mean pick!

 

[BlazerCaravan]

If Leonard can give us 9.8 / 7.2 in 33 minutes (basically his same rate of production over a full game) as a starter by the end of the 2013-2014 season, I think he'll be fine. Natural growth in his game and maturity in his body will take care of the rest, giving him an average of something like 13.0 / 9.5 by midway through the 2016-2017 season.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I would! I would be really happy if our 11th pick produced 10/10/1.5 blocks per game. I would be ecstatic if he averaged 2.5 blocks a game though.

I think you are missing the greatest asset Pryzbilla gave us. He was an intimidator and the guy that would alter shots around the rim. I can't remember how many times he would scratch a dunk attempt on great finishers. That is a great asset man!

I am not missing it, I know it didn't really show in the box score so it wouldn't show up on the link. I don't think Leonard magically becomes Joel in that sense though. Leonard will have good block numbers. Probably not the intimidation factor and timely ones that Joel did though.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

If Leonard can give us 9.8 / 7.2 in 33 minutes (basically his same rate of production over a full game) as a starter by the end of the 2013-2014 season, I think he'll be fine. Natural growth in his game and maturity in his body will take care of the rest, giving him an average of something like 13.0 / 9.5 by midway through the 2016-2017 season.

I would take this but honestly if you are drafting a Center of the future aren't you hoping for more? Not to say he couldn't get more... Seems like low expectations though. (Talking more your first numbers then the second ones)

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I would take this but honestly if you are drafting a Center of the future aren't you hoping for more? Not to say he couldn't get more... Seems like low expectations though. (Talking more your first numbers then the second ones)

I think expecting that out of a 22-year old is fine. 9.8 / 7.2 in 33 minutes isn't world-beating, but he's not our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th option. Also, I bet his rebounding numbers go up as a starter given the better defense they play over the bench players. But as a baseline, I think it's fine.

 

[RR7]

It's funny that most talk about Leonard as mainly a defensive C, comparisons to Chandler, etc. And it's certainly what I WANT him to be. But right now his offensive game is much better than his defense, IMO.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I was really hoping that drummand would drop to the 11th pick. It was actually pretty close. Out of all the centers that came out of last years draft, Drummand was the one I was goo goo for.

I was all over Drummond. I think he's going to be legit. He's looked pretty good thus far, and still improving. With that guy, it's going to come down to effort/drive.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

It's funny that most talk about Leonard as mainly a defensive C, comparisons to Chandler, etc. And it's certainly what I WANT him to be. But right now his offensive game is much better than his defense, IMO.

Yep, a better comparison for him at this point might be Byron Mullens. Don't laugh check out the offensive numbers and rebounding that guy is putting up this year.

 

[Mediocre Man]

If Leonard averaged 10 and 9 in 31 minutes a night for most of his career would that be a disappointment to most people?

After re-looking up Joel's stats they weren't that impressive outside of rebounding:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/przybjo01.html

That would be solid, not lottery pick solid, but solid numbers for sure. I would hope for more than that from him though

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Yep, a better comparison for him at this point might be Byron Mullens. Don't laugh check out the offensive numbers and rebounding that guy is putting up this year.

leonard has 10X the ws/48 thus far this year

 

[3RA1N1AC]

That would be solid, not lottery pick solid, but solid numbers for sure

so the average lottery pick center averages better than 10/9 for their career?

doubt it

 

[BBert]

If Leonard averaged 10 and 9 in 31 minutes a night for most of his career would that be a disappointment to most people?

After re-looking up Joel's stats they weren't that impressive outside of rebounding:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/przybjo01.html

Not if he learns to defend and swat without ending up out of position. The center should be a threat to score but not necessarily a primary scorer. Defense, rebounding, a little scoring and the ability to pass out of trouble is all he needs to be well worth the 11th pick. Don't expect it for a couple of years though.

Oops I forgot setting a mean screen. That would be great.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

It's funny that most talk about Leonard as mainly a defensive C, comparisons to Chandler, etc. And it's certainly what I WANT him to be. But right now his offensive game is much better than his defense, IMO.

Good point: his DRtg is average for the Blazers (in that it's slightly below average for the NBA), but he's got the highest ORtg on the team (119). His WS/48 are also strangely high (4th best) for his PER (6th best). In most other cases on our team PER and WS/48 correlate strongly; if you rank WS/48 and compare it to a ranking of PER, the order is basically the same, except for Leonard.

I like his range (out to 18 feet), and think it will help us in ways we haven't really seen from a center since Sabas or Duckworth... in fact, Leonard's PER is already similar to Duckworth's 1989-90 campaign. http://bkref.com/tiny/zJxTu If you look at the advanced stats, you can see a potential in Leonard to be pretty potent on offense if his Usage is allowed to go up. Portland rand several plays for Duck to get him warmed up, and could do the same for Meyers.

 

[BrianFromWA]

http://www.basketball-reference.com...tat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Aside from Zaza, Brezec and Candyman, is there anyone in those 61 seasons (granted, from 2000 onward, but you could tweak it if you want to) with 9.8/7.2 in 30mpg that you wouldn't want right this second as a starting C? Or say was a pretty good success with the 11 pick?

Shaq, Howard, Yao, Horford, Chandler, Brad Miller, Dikembe, Noah, Gasol, Okafor, Bynum, Ilgauskas, Brook Lopez, Gortat, Alonzo Mourning, 2001 Vlade, Dalembert, Kaman.

 

[Mediocre Man]

so the average lottery pick center averages better than 10/9 for their career?

doubt it

No idea, I'd have to check. I will go back 20 years or so? Take the top 14 players since the lottery has changed

 

[KeepOnRollin]

leonard has 10X the ws/48 thus far this year

No one stat is the end all be all but this is good news as it shows Leonard could be more. Doubt anyone could say they wouldn't take Byron's numbers from this year for Leonard next year though.

 

[magnifier661]

I would take this but honestly if you are drafting a Center of the future aren't you hoping for more? Not to say he couldn't get more... Seems like low expectations though. (Talking more your first numbers then the second ones)

It depends on the situation though. I mean on our team, we have a lot of scorers in the starting line-up. If we still have Batum, Aldridge, Lillard and Matthews; I just don't see how Leonard can average enything more than 10 per game.

 

[mook]

Leonard seems like much more of a natural scorer than Przybilla ever was. He's taking shots right now that Joel never took at the peak of his career--midrange jumpers out to about 16 feet--and yet he's got a better FG% than Joel finished with.

He's being pigeonholed as a Przybilla-type because he's white and big, but if he has a healthy career where he averages 30+ppg I think he'll probably be worth 13-15ppg when he's in his prime. Our team as it is right now doesn't really trust him to score (and he doesn't seem to trust himself) and yet he's already scoring 10.6 ppg per 36 minutes. When Leonard takes shots, they always look like they are going in. It's the one thing (besides dunking) he does with pretty high competence.

I'm more skeptical that he'll ever be a great rebounder and defender like Joel. I think at some point a coach is going to realize he can score (when LMA gets injured/traded) and he could go the way of a poor man's Amare. He might figure out a big man can forget about learning to defend and make some decent coin by just putting up points for a few years. Jamal Magloire made as much money in his career as Joel Przybilla and didn't work nearly as hard for it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I won't claim to have come up with this analogy, but I think it's apt. Leonard is a lot like a Great Dane puppy when he's out on the court. His awareness is jaw-dropping in how horrendous it really is. He's completely lost on both ends of the court, having no clue what to do with the basketball in the paint and how he's supposed to play big men on defense.

That said ... he does a few things when he's out there that gives me a glimmer of hope that someday he could be a regular contributor. 1. He's game; he doesn't appear to get too down when he screws up and he doesn't seem intimidated. 2. He's very mobile for his size; I think he does a nice job jumping out to the three point line to hedge on pick and rolls and when he recognizes what he's supposed to do, he's able to cover a lot of ground and get back to his man near the hoop. 3. He's got a pretty good jump shot; his form is good, he's fluid ... he's usually super tentative and unsure of taking a jumper, but mechanically there's something to work with.

What does all of that mean? I don't know exactly. It's all going to come down to how hard he works in the off-season with a big man coach, or how much time he devotes to his craft ... an holy balls, he needs a lot of work, but at least there's some mold-able clay there to work with -- the atheticism, the size, the jumper.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

No idea, I'd have to check. I will go back 20 years or so? Take the top 14 players since the lottery has changed

Yeah, but the NBA has expanded. If you're taking the top-14 for all-time, you're taking a high percentage of players than you should.

 

[BBert]

I agree Leonard seems to have natural offensive talent, he's agile and he can really jump. I have my fingers crossed he can learn to defend and rebound. He tries hard and has a good attitude, two things Jermaine O'Neal lacked when he was here. And he turned out pretty good.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I won't claim to have come up with this analogy, but I think it's apt. Leonard is a lot like a Great Dane puppy when he's out on the court. His awareness is jaw-dropping in how horrendous it really is. He's completely lost on both ends of the court, having no clue what to do with the basketball in the paint and how he's supposed to play big men on defense.

That said ... he does a few things when he's out there that give me a glimmer of hope that someday he could be a regular contributor. 1. He's game; he doesn't appear to get too down when he screws up and he doesn't seem intimidated. 2. He's very mobile for his size; I think he does a nice job jumping out to the three point line to hedge on pick and rolls and when he recognizes what he's supposed to do, he's able to cover a lot of ground and get back to his man near the hoop. 3. He's got a pretty good jump shot; his form is good, he's fluid ... he's usually super tentative and unsure of taking a jumper, but mechanically there's something to work with.

What does all of that mean? I don't know exactly. It's all going to come down to how hard he works in the off-season with a big man coach, or how much time he devotes to his craft ... an holy balls, he needs a lot of work, but at least there's some mold-able clay there to work with -- the atheticism, the size, the jumper.

Agreed with most of this. He has more than a jumper though. In general, he has a pretty nice touch around the rim. He had a nice little jump-hook, or something like that, against the Wizz. I've seen him pull enough moves around the rim to know he just has a solid shooting touch in general.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Agreed with most of this. He has more than a jumper though. In general, he has a pretty nice touch around the rim. He had a nice little jump-hook, or something like that, against the Wizz. I've seen him pull enough moves around the rim to know he just has a solid shooting touch in general.

He has no idea -- ZERO -- with how to gain post position and has a ton of difficulty figuring out that it's OK to go up and finish off of an offensive rebound instead of immediately looking to pass out to a wing. If it's not a lob-dunk, then you can probably forget about it for right now.

 

[mook]

He has no idea -- ZERO -- with how to gain post position

Very true

and has a ton of difficulty figuring out that it's OK to go up and finish off of an offensive rebound instead of immediately looking to pass out to a wing. If it's not a lob-dunk, then you can probably forget about it for right now.

Not really true. I think twice last night he nabbed offensive boards and put them back. There was definitely that one where he was standing behind the backboard (ugh) and still somehow used his athleticism to rebound and flip up a nifty little shot.

And you can definitely throw it to him and count on him hitting a 14 footer if he's open. He's more than proven that.