Speaking of no talent U.S. born white centers

[Boise Blazer]

With more experience and playing time I have no doubt that he could be close to a double-double average. On a good night the kid basically falls into 5 rebounds with his athleticism and 6 points from alley oops and a mid range jumper. So its not hard to envision that with more time and experience that those numbers could double.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

He has no idea -- ZERO -- with how to gain post position and has a ton of difficulty figuring out that it's OK to go up and finish off of an offensive rebound instead of immediately looking to pass out to a wing. If it's not a lob-dunk, then you can probably forget about it for right now.

I didn't say he knows how to gain position. I said he has a nice touch. Big difference. I've seen him shoot the ball over the defender (with his defender guarding him tight) several times this year from 4-7 feet from the hoop, or a little jump hook, and he's made them far more often than he's missed.

 

[KingSpeed]

I think he can be an All Star center but it will take time. Look at how long it took Chandler and Bynum to breakout. It takes time for a player like Leonard. I hope we hang onto him. It will be fun to watch him grow.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

No idea, I'd have to check. I will go back 20 years or so? Take the top 14 players since the lottery has changed

1994

montross, yinka dare

1995

bryant reeves, cherokee parks

1996

camby, lorenzen wright, eric dampier, todd fuller, vitaly potopenko

1997

adonal foyle

1998

candyman, doleac

1999

Aleksandar Radojević

2000

joel

2001

kwame, chandler, eddy curry, diop

2002

yao

2003

darko, kaman

2004

dho, araujo, robert swift

2005

bogut
bynum

2006

POB, sene, hilton armstrong

without looking up all of these scrubs stats, id say 10/9 puts him ahead of most of these lotto pick centers

 

[Mediocre Man]

Centers Try to stay true centers and not guys like Dale Davis and Adam Keefe. Also in prime years

91
Motumbo Did
Longley Did not

92
Shaq Did
Mourning Did

93
Bradley Did not
Haskin Did not

94
Montross Did not
Dare Did not

95
Reeves Did not

96
Dampier Did not
Potepinko Did not

97
Foyle Did not

98
Olawakandi did not
Doleac Did not

99
Redojevic Did not

00
Mihm Did not
Przybilla Did not

01
Curry Did not
Chandler Did ish
Diop Did not

02
Yao Did
Nene Did Not

03
Kaman Did not

04
Howard Did
Okafor Did
Araujo Did not
Biendrins Did (3 real prime years)
Swift Did not

05
Bogut Did
Frye Did not
Bynum Did

06
O'Bryant Did not
Sene Did not
Armstrong Did not

07
Oden Did not
Hawes Did not

08
Lopez Did not

09
Thabeet Did not

After that guys are too young to really know I think. So looking at it, what really stands out is that most lottery centers are either huge deals or complete busts, with a few decent to below average guys mixed in

 

[KeepOnRollin]

1994

montross, yinka dare

1995

bryant reeves, cherokee parks

1996

camby, lorenzen wright, eric dampier, todd fuller, vitaly potopenko

1997

adonal foyle

1998

candyman, doleac

1999

Aleksandar Radojević

2000

joel

2001

kwame, chandler, eddy curry, diop

2002

yao

2003

darko, kaman

2004

dho, araujo, robert swift

2005

bogut
bynum

2006

POB, sene, hilton armstrong

without looking up all of these scrubs stats, id say 10/9 puts him ahead of most of these lotto pick centers

Are we going in their prime or at their second year or what?

I would put him behind (because it will be a smaller list):
Camby, Dampier (had a 12/12 year and a 12/9 year - close though) Chandler, Kaman (another close one and depends on if we are going career or not), Howard, Bogut, and Bynum.

Yep. So if not top 10% then top 15ish% although you left off from 2007 on. Some decent names are: Horford, Noah, Hawes, Lopez, Cousins, and Monroe.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I still don't think he will ever be one of the top rebounders in the game. He does not seem to have a nose for the ball so to speak.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

so, looking at that list, 10/9 would clearly be solid for a lottery pick

glad we could clear that up

 

[Mediocre Man]

so, looking at that list, 10/9 would clearly be solid for a lottery pick

glad we could clear that up

I think you are lowering your expectations because of other shitty players though, don't you? Solid for a lottery pick is correct, but that's sad. Most guys around there are pretty average NBA players. The other guys are superstars and in a different world all together

 

[BlazerCaravan]

First, perfect is the enemy of good. Let's consider that before whining about centers.

Secondly look at this: http://bkref.com/tiny/RaMC3 Only 36 centers ever have spent a significant amount of their career (5 seasons or more) with even a 9/7 average. If you want to talk about lowered expectations, we should talk about lowering them to match reality rather than to anything else.

Another way to look at it: in two games as a starter, Leonard averaged 12 points and 4 rebounds. Not worldbeating, right? But Here's the list of active centers who have ever averaged 12/4 in their career: http://bkref.com/tiny/MY1Aa Note that only 6 active centers are averaging 12/4 this season (sort by To descending).

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I think you are lowering your expectations because of other shitty players though, don't you? Solid for a lottery pick is correct, but that's sad. Most guys around there are pretty average NBA players. The other guys are superstars and in a different world all together

lowering my expectations? that a #11 pick center might average 10/9 for his career?

i would think that would actually be close to best case scenario

take away the #1 no brainer picks on that list and you have a crapton of meh/dogshit

 

[mook]

I think you are lowering your expectations because of other shitty players though, don't you? Solid for a lottery pick is correct, but that's sad. Most guys around there are pretty average NBA players. The other guys are superstars and in a different world all together

There are "average NBA players," and then there are "average real NBA centers." Lots of the former, but far fewer of the latter.

A lot of those "solid" guys got paid pretty well. The market clearly values a pretty mediocre 7 footer over a 6'7 guy who puts up above average stats. It's about rarity and impact on winning.

Obviously, we'd all love Leonard to be a franchise center. But even a mediocre starting center is a pretty respectable pick for where we got him. (And I think he's got a good chance to be more than that.)

 

[Mediocre Man]

lowering my expectations? that a #11 pick center might average 10/9 for his career?

i would think that would actually be close to best case scenario

take away the #1 no brainer picks on that list and you have a crapton of meh/dogshit

Ya, ok, I have been swayed. I would be pretty delighted with 10/9. Apparently I'd be delighted with 10/7/2blks or 8/8/2

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Ya, ok, I have been swayed. I would be pretty delighted with 10/9. Apparently I'd be delighted with 10/7/2blks or 8/8/2

Only five centers averaging 8/8/2 this season (13 if you count F-C's and C-F's).

 

[Mediocre Man]

Only five centers averaging 8/8/2 this season (13 if you count F-C's and C-F's).

That's what I just said. Apparently I'd be delighted

 

[BrianFromWA]

you might want to take out, say, Top 3 picks (Yao, D-Ho, Okafor, Bogut, etc) and see what the average 4-13 pick does. Bynum, Kaman, Joel and Damp are the only even partly-serviceable picks that came out. If Leonard (or Henson, or Drummond) makes it even to Joel or Dampier's level then they're severely bucking the odds.

Edit: What 3RA1N1AC said.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That's what I just said. Apparently I'd be delighted

Reality is so much different from expectations sometimes! I was shocked at how few legitimate centers there are, and how few of them are doing anything at all. Leonard will be good* in his career.

*for a center.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Meyers Leonard is a big man that can shoot the basketball and it wont surprise me if we see him shooting 3 pointers next season.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

interesting

http://www.basketball-reference.com...tat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

 

[magnifier661]

Forgot about brad miller. He is white and us born right?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

yup, he sure is

 

[BigGameDamian]

I think Meyers Leonard is more like a Reaf LeFrentz type.

 

[e_blazer]

Where would Meyers Leonard be in this year's draft if he had played one more year of college ball? He put up 13.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg, and 1.9 bpg his sophomore year at Illinois. By comparison, Cody Zeller is putting up 16.4 ppg, 8.2 rpg, & 1.4 bpg this year. NBADraft.net has Zeller as the projected number 2 pick. I think Meyers would probably be a top-5 pick in this year's draft, which means the Blazers got him for good value. His game intrigues me a lot and I'd hate to see him traded before we get a better idea of what his ceiling is.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Where would Meyers Leonard be in this year's draft if he had played one more year of college ball? He put up 13.6 ppg, 8.2 rpg, and 1.9 bpg his sophomore year at Illinois. By comparison, Cody Zeller is putting up 16.4 ppg, 8.2 rpg, & 1.4 bpg this year. NBADraft.net has Zeller as the projected number 2 pick. I think Meyers would probably be a top-5 pick in this year's draft, which means the Blazers got him for good value. His game intrigues me a lot and I'd hate to see him traded before we get a better idea of what his ceiling is.

It's ok when Leonard starts shooting three pointers you will lean slightly the other way.:MARIS61:

 

[BlazerWookee]

You can't teach big: Meyers is big. You can't teach athletic: Meyers is VERY athletic. You can't teach touch: Meyers has an amazingly soft touch around the hoop for a guy his size. You can teach strength and conditioning, but from what I've read, Meyers could probably teach the Blazers training staff a thing or two in those departments.

I think as long as progressive expectations for this kid stay reasonable, his upside could be way up there. Keep dangling attainable goals in front of him, and he'll continue to get better and better. Set the bar too high, and you run the risk of killing his confidence and his will to work to improve.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

You can't teach big: Meyers is big. You can't teach athletic: Meyers is VERY athletic. You can't teach touch: Meyers has an amazingly soft touch around the hoop for a guy his size. You can teach strength and conditioning, but from what I've read, Meyers could probably teach the Blazers training staff a thing or two in those departments.

I think as long as progressive expectations for this kid stay reasonable, his upside could be way up there. Keep dangling attainable goals in front of him, and he'll continue to get better and better. Set the bar too high, and you run the risk of killing his confidence and his will to work to improve.

Boom - hit the nail on the head! Agreed on all points.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Boom - hit the nail on the head! Agreed on all points.

I really gotta hand it to Stotts and the front office: they're investing in Leonard without throwing him to the wolves. They're playing a center they have on a one-year contract less than 30 minutes a game, and playing Leonard 16-18 minutes a game, which is way more than I expected for some reason. They pull Leonard when he fucks up totally, but Stotts talks with Leonard for entire plays after pulling him, telling him what he wants Leonard to be doing out there. Every game Leonard plays is one where he shows us something new.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I really gotta hand it to Stotts and the front office: they're investing in Leonard without throwing him to the wolves. They're playing a center they have on a one-year contract less than 30 minutes a game, and playing Leonard 16-18 minutes a game, which is way more than I expected for some reason. They pull Leonard when he fucks up totally, but Stotts talks with Leonard for entire plays after pulling him, telling him what he wants Leonard to be doing out there. Every game Leonard plays is one where he shows us something new.

Boom - hit the nail on the head! Agreed on all points.

I think Leonard is going to slowly improve (as has been mentioned here), but we're going to be able to see it. Then, I could see him being one of those guys who just puts it all together one day, finds his confidence, and just runs with it.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

leonard isnt fouling TOO much really, 4.8 per36, about the same as hibbert or javale

but he could cut down for sure

 

[BlazerCaravan]

leonard isnt fouling TOO much really, 4.8 per36, about the same as hibbert or javale

but he could cut down for sure

Most of it is because he doesn't back down or flop (or get into good position). I generally am fine with the fouls he gets because it's usually from tangling with some guy trying to school the rookie. Leonard has no fear.