Starters opening night?

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STOMP said:
Unless there is an injury, it's going to be B. Travis is the best SF on the club and Nate will give him the honor because he's the vet... count on it.

STOMP
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Travis has never done well deferring to Aldridge and Roy. Like you said, his main asset is being able to create his shot and score. Which is precisely why he should come off the bench.
 
Hi everyone.

I'm new to the site, but it's possible that some of you recognize me from another site.

It seems that the majority of the discussion about Outlaw being a good fit is revolving in his offensive role. While that is an important issue, I think the bigger issue with Travis is that we still don't know if he can defend starting NBA SF's. We don't want teams attacking GO and getting him in foul trouble early, and I'm worried Travis will have a hard time keeping most slashing SF's in front of him.
 
Welcome to S2 Tince and I agree about Outlaw's defense. I think Batum looks like a good choice to be our SF of the future and he is developing faster then I though. He might even be ready later this year but probably not until next year. Hopefully Webster gets back soon and has a good year. If not I can see a trade at the trade deadline for a SF.
 
I'd go "A" unless Batum continues to impress.

If we did do "A", Brandon would be guarding the SFs but would continue to be our playmaker and really play the SG position on offense while Rudy plays the SF position on offense.

I would really like to see this line-up play together in the pre-season. I think Rudy and Brandon can play together very well, and I always thought that Rudy would be a great SF in our offense (probably the perfect SF outside some size and D).
 
My belief is that Batum will start. His defense is already so much better than Travis' that it isn't even funny.

Now they may very well give Travis the start at LA because of Odom's size but Travis will get blown by more times than not.

Travis can play some help D, hence the block shots, but he just cannot play good man on man D, IMO. Odom has so much size (weight) on Nic that it isn't good either though.

??????????? Anybody's guess but expect to see a substitution early for either player.

g
 
andalusian said:
You know - I kind of disagree there. Travis is a slow learner. But he assists more than Martell per minute (or did last year) and rebounds better than Webster per minute. If Travis is a below-average rebounder - Webster is atrocious. (6.2 vs 5 per 36 minutes). Both are bad at assists (Travis dished 1.7 per 36 minutes, Webster only 1.5).

The arguments that Travis is bad at creating for others/rebounding may be right - but he is still (shock) better than Webster. When you consider that Webster played most of the time with the 1st unit and had more capable people to pass to - it is astounding that Travis assists at a higher rate than him...

Travis's problem is that he has to adjust to playing a different game and understanding how he can be effective in it. Once he figures it out (and it will take some time, I love Travis for his gifts and attitude - but he is not a natural when it comes to understanding and having a feel for the game) - I suspect he will be effective in this role.

I doubt he will be ready to contribute in this manner at the start of the year - but if the coaching staff thinks he can grow into this role and get it eventually - I would not be surprised if they let him start this way and take the lumps with it until he gets it (or they think he is never going to get it).
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Ahhhh, we aleady had this conversation a while back. I produced numbers and everything. I don't want to do that again.

But to summarize: Travis' stats maybe aren't what they seem when compared to Martell. You MUST take into consideration:

Starter vs. Bench
SF vs. PF
3rd option vs. 1st option

PFs who take their shots closer to the hoop than a 3pt specialist SHOULD be much better rebounders. Was Travis?

Being the 1st option of the bench (and against other bench players) should boost your scoring numbers and having the ball so much should boost your assists.

When you look at this it detracts from Travis' positive comparisons to Webster. I wasn't trying to argue that Webster was all that last season. Only that Travis was fool's gold, and not likely a more important contributor to wins.

By watching the game with my eyes, I will tell you flat out:

Webster is a better all-around player than Travis. Webster is a better fit at the Small Forward position with the starters.

This is what we all know:

Webster can play the 3 with the starters and be modestly successful and part of a team that exceeded expectations.

Travis can be a gunner off the bench who can create his own shot against (mostly) bench power forwards.

We do not know: Can Travis play the Small Forward position full time? Can Travis play with the starters?

I just don't see how using apples to oranges stats comparisons are supposed to answer those questions.
 
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Masbee said:
I just don't see how using apples to oranges stats comparisons are supposed to answer those questions.
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.. and I agree. I just do not know why it is so clear that Webster can play with the 1st team and Travis not...

The numbers could be in Travis's favor because of where he played - or they can be in Webster's.

That's why I am not ready to declare Travis unfit for the 1st team because he was succesful doing what the coach asked him to do on the 2nd team...
 
I would go with A, but I would like to see the following lineup once in the Preseason:

Blake
Roy
Frye
Aldridge
Oden

If Frye can hit 3's like he seems to think he can, then he is a decent fit. The big issue is guarding 3's, but we are going to have that issue no matter who starts. Our starting line-up in this case is HUGE, as oppose to small. Aldridge is quick enough to guard some 3's straight up. But let's face it, the Blazer's are going to go zone alot this year just like last year. Our main goal defensively has always been to get other teams to take 15 to 22 foot jumpshots instead of getting to the rim. I think this line-up could be used against some teams, while line-up could be used against others. I know Batum has been impressive in 3 pre-season games, but I am still not sold on him over either Rudy or Frye at this time. If he continues to play well during our punishing first 10 games, then he should start.
 
I'd like to see Bayless and Outlaw on the 2nd unit with Sergio distributing them the ball
 
andalusian said:
.. and I agree. I just do not know why it is so clear that Webster can play with the 1st team and Travis not...

The numbers could be in Travis's favor because of where he played - or they can be in Webster's.

That's why I am not ready to declare Travis unfit for the 1st team because he was succesful doing what the coach asked him to do on the 2nd team...
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Because of these reasons:

Travis had his breakout season playing mostly the 4. That spot is NOT available in the starting unit.

On paper, Travis looks to be a poor fit with the starters. His only real proven NBA skill - getting his own shot - has limited use in the starting unit. His passing, dribbling, defense, rebounding and IQ are all below average, making him look to be a poor fit as a 4th option glue player.

Because, Travis has sucked in the pre-season as a starter, confirming - so far - the above.

Can he change? Can he become something he has never displayed in the NBA? Sure. I wouldn't consider it likely though.

Team might play him there anyway, as the options of Roy at the 3 and Batum are not great either.
 
batum is this years udoka....except with upside.

anyway...book it


blake
roy
outlaw
aldridge
oden

for about 3 games till nate realizes outlaw couldnt start in the d-league. then.....id say


blake
roy
rudy
aldridge
oden (who might be hurt by then) so im gonna say pryz
 
MIXUM said:
batum is this years udoka....except with upside.

anyway...book it


blake
roy
outlaw
aldridge
oden

for about 3 games till nate realizes outlaw couldnt start in the d-league. then.....id say


blake
roy
rudy
aldridge
oden (who might be hurt by then) so im gonna say pryz
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Come on I know it is not in your make up to be optimistic but let's at least try until the first game. j/k:devilwink:
 
Masbee said:
Because of these reasons:

Travis had his breakout season playing mostly the 4. That spot is NOT available in the starting unit.

On paper, Travis looks to be a poor fit with the starters. His only real proven NBA skill - getting his own shot - has limited use in the starting unit. His passing, dribbling, defense, rebounding and IQ are all below average, making him look to be a poor fit as a 4th option glue player.

Because, Travis has sucked in the pre-season as a starter, confirming - so far - the above.

Can he change? Can he become something he has never displayed in the NBA? Sure. I wouldn't consider it likely though.

Team might play him there anyway, as the options of Roy at the 3 and Batum are not great either.
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TO's passing, dribbling, defense, rebounding and IQ sure don't trail Martell and several aspects of his game are notably better. He had several very good games as a starter last year, some of them at SF, so how you come to the definitive statement that he can't excell as a starter seems baseless. Travis sucked in last years preseason as well... probably related to his asthma that is especially accute in the fall before the rains start. Heres guessing when he can breath well again, which will be shortly, we'll see the same guy who was better then Martell last year.

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
TO's passing, dribbling, defense, rebounding and IQ sure don't trail Martell and several aspects of his game are notably better. He had several very good games as a starter last year, some of them at SF, so how you come to the definitive statement that he can't excell as a starter seems baseless. Travis sucked in last years preseason as well... probably related to his asthma that is especially accute in the fall before the rains start. Heres guessing when he can breath well again, which will be shortly, we'll see the same guy who was better then Martell last year.

STOMP
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You like Travis a lot better as a Small Forward talent than I do. That has been the case for some time. I see that you haven't changed your mind.

Travis playing with the starters while Webster is out should let us both know what's what.
 
MIXUM said:
batum is this years udoka....except with upside.
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That's the best description of Batum I've seen so far. Nice. I'm a little surprised you don't think he's the starter for that very reason.

Udoka isn't a world-beater athlete. He was just this guy who knew his role, and his role was to not make mistakes and work hard on defense.

That's really what we need most our of our starting SF this year too.

Quick seems to think that Batum is at least a contender for the starting job. I'm starting to see why. Whether you realize it or not, you've made a pretty good argument in favor of it.
 
Masbee said:
You like Travis a lot better as a Small Forward talent than I do. That has been the case for some time. I see that you haven't changed your mind.

Travis playing with the starters while Webster is out should let us both know what's what.
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yup, though a better description of my position is that I'd like an upgrade at SF. I think TO is almost OK but I think even less of Martell's game and potential. It would be fine by me if either improved enough to become a decent starter but I think Martell's issues with the yips/confidence are especially hard to overcome.

This offseason I was one of the few posters who put needs at SF above PG and openly pined for Randolph or Batum in the draft. Everyone seems to have jumped on board Nico's bandwagon of late after being down on him for not showing well in summer league. Now as then, I feel he'll turn out to be the best of the three SFs on the roster.

STOMP
 
I'm going to agree w/ Brandon Roy himself on this one. If Batum plays well with the black unit against the other teams starters in these final preseason games, I dont see how Batum shouldnt start. He gives them a strong wing defender, which will help Greg stay out of foul trouble early in games. Travis' style has, and will always clash with the first unit.
 
Starters
Sergio
Roy
Rudy
Oden
Aldridge

White Unit
Blake
Bayless
Batum
Outlaw
Pryzbilla

3rd Unit
Lafrentz
Diogu
Frye
Webster
 
HurraKane212 said:
Except Batum is a world beater athlete. Dude has hops.
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true. He also has both a lankier bodytype and more size (height/length) then Ime, thats part of the upside. Ime is a bit undersized at the 3 while Batum appears to have near prototypical SF size and build. I think the point is they do play the same sort of game. Batum's ceiling is higher (dude's a rook not 30+) but I think it's a good comparison in style of play

STOMP
 
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