Starters

[SharpesTriumph]

Forgot about Thybulle - another contract I hated the day we signed it.

It so freaking rare the Blazers resign one of their players to anything other than a bad contract. Dame/CJ/Hood were good - especially their first deals. Prior to that probably LMA+Batum were good. Before that maybe Steve Blake, Przybilla, Camby.... then your back to the trader Bob era.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Forgot about Thybulle - another contract I hated the day we signed it.

It so freaking rare the Blazers resign one of their players to anything other than a bad contract. Dame/CJ/Hood were good - especially their first deals. Prior to that probably LMA+Batum were good. Before that maybe Steve Blake, Przybilla, Camby.... then your back to the trader Bob era.

Eating that contract is fine to get a guy like Thybulle, IMO. Especially at the time we did it. From here on we can let the market dictate his contract. But having a guy like that is very valuable.

 

[1 Eye Jack]

The question is ambiguous. Does it mean:
"How many players, currently on the roster, would you want to see as starters going forward?"
Or:
"How many players, currently starting, would you want to see on the roster going forward?"

sorry was trying to keep it simple but didn’t do good job of explaining. What it’s meant to mean is of the guys on the roster how many are you comfortable with as our starters for the next 5 years. For me that means are they good enough to get us in the playoffs and hopefully further depending on their development

 

[Everything Beagle]

I’m good with at least 3 guys on current roster as part of our future starting 5

1.
2. Sharpe
3. Tou
4. Deni
5.

im on fence with Scoot hasn’t proven it yet but still huge upside

5. Clingan, no offense is big concern but he’s young could improve. Ayton seems to have peaked, all the tools are there just doesn’t bring effort every night and not sure that will ever change

Draft needs another forward preferably shooter. Backup guard who can shoot or distribute?

Exactly where I am. I’m also happy starting both Clingan and Scoot because it’s an honest way of figuring out where we are and working to improve. Likewise I would want strong veteran guidance off the bench for both positions. We need a couple of old fogeys who can still give us 12-24 minutes a game to help stabilize the team over a game. But otherwise, let it roll.

 

[blazerkor]

sorry was trying to keep it simple but didn’t do good job of explaining. What it’s meant to mean is of the guys on the roster how many are you comfortable with as our starters for the next 5 years. For me that means are they good enough to get us in the playoffs and hopefully further depending on their development

Oh if that's the question I have no idea besides Tou. Last year could have been a fluke from Deni on a team that couldn't win against quality opponents and something that he can't sustain on a team that needs to win, even against the best of teams. Shaedon has a ways to go on both ends of the floor. Same for Scoot. Clingan is a monster in the paint on defense but has a longer ways to go than Scoot or Shaedon on O and teams can play him off the court on D by going 5 out. Definitely none of the vets I want off the team are guys I want starting on our team when we're contending but Rob and Deandre have both proved that they can start on contenders and I believe both Jerami and Ant can too in the right roles.

Out of the guys I want on our roster only Tou is good enough today to be a 4th or 5th best starter on a contender and depending on development just isn't something any team can ever do. This doesn't mean I want to give up on Shaedon or Scoot, it doesn't mean I don't have hope that Deni's production can translate into winning. It also doesn't mean that Clingan can't be a starter with just a little improvement in a couple of areas on offense but he will need a helluva backup small ball C to make him a championship level starter.

All of this is to say, this is why I was so fucking angry that we didn't try to amass more top of the draft talent this last season... yes through tanking. I think starting next season Flagg will be a guy you could build a contender around and it won't take the amount of imagination and finger crossing that it does from us for Shaedon and/or Scoot. SMH. Still can't believe that we fucking won all of those absolutely useless games. All of you basketball/sports puritans better hope that karma is real and we get really really fucking lucky on Monday.

Talent wins in this league and we do have a lot of it but most of it is unrealized and unrealized talent in the NBA is a 50/50 proposition. We should have been doing our best to get more talent or maybe a better way of describing it is better odds of amassing enough to win a championship but we are where we are. Fingers crossed and then hoping tbat Joe and Schmitz know something everyone else doesn't.

TLDR: Toumani and a bunch of coinflips, followed by some bellyaching that is probably only the fault of Bert... fucking Bert. SMH

 

[blazerkor]

Exactly where I am. I’m also happy starting both Clingan and Scoot because it’s an honest way of figuring out where we are and working to improve. Likewise I would want strong veteran guidance off the bench for both positions. We need a couple of old fogeys who can still give us 12-24 minutes a game to help stabilize the team over a game. But otherwise, let it roll.

Oh yeah, if the question is who I'm cool with starting next season it's Scoot, Shaedon, Tou, Deni and Clingan. I'll be excited if they're our starters day one. It would be nice if we drafted someone that pushed one of them to a sixth man role or someone who took a role playing starters minutes off the bench too.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Eating that contract is fine to get a guy like Thybulle, IMO. Especially at the time we did it. From here on we can let the market dictate his contract. But having a guy like that is very valuable.

Ummm... what was the point of eating that contract? He was a free agent. We could have just let him walk off to Dallas and been done with it. Wouldn't have had to give up value in the later Washington trade to cut salary either.

I don't see how he has been "very valuable"... first year of his deal we were tanking and had no use for him. This last season he played 15 games.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Oh if that's the question I have no idea besides Tou. Last year could have been a fluke from Deni on a team that couldn't win against quality opponents

The team may not have won, but Deni played well against quality opponents.

33 against NY
28 Lakers
30 Bucks
28 OKC
36 Denver
31 Memphis
34 GS
30 Cleveland

 

[STOMP]

Starting is largely an ego thing for veterans. Earning over 30+ MPG and being a regular part of the finishing lineup are much more important honors

STOMP

 

[blazerkor]

The team may not have won, but Deni played well against quality opponents.

33 against NY
28 Lakers
30 Bucks
28 OKC
36 Denver
31 Memphis
34 GS
30 Cleveland

The entire point was if that production could translate into wins against the best teams in the league. We all saw him put those numbers up in wins against bad teams and losses against good teams but the only way they really hold water IMO is if those numbers are put up in wins against the best teams consistently. I'm not saying that's not going to happen, I'm just saying it's a question that I feel still needs to be answered.

What Tou has been bringing however will, again IMO, translate against the best teams in wins and that's why he's the only guy I think that we have that I feel like I know could hold down a starting spot on a contending team. I think Deni is a maybe. I think that Clingan, Sharpe and Henderson have a lot of developing to do before I could say that about them but those are the guys on our roster right now that I do hope are starting next season barring trades or hitting big time with our draft pick... however that looks (moving up or getting a guy that other teams missed on).

 

[Phatguysrule]

Ummm... what was the point of eating that contract? He was a free agent. We could have just let him walk off to Dallas and been done with it. Wouldn't have had to give up value in the later Washington trade to cut salary either.

I don't see how he has been "very valuable"... first year of his deal we were tanking and had no use for him. This last season he played 15 games.

He's a great defender and a better locker room guy. He's the kind of pro we want our young guys learning from.

Plus, he'll be valuable if/when we're in the playoffs. Especially if he can get his 3 going.

 

[Natebishop3]

Man I just want to see one full year of Scoot/Sharpe/Tou/Deni/Ayton or Clingan.

 

[Pinwheel1]

The entire point was if that production could translate into wins against the best teams in the league. We all saw him put those numbers up in wins against bad teams and losses against good teams but the only way they really hold water IMO is if those numbers are put up in wins against the best teams consistently. I'm not saying that's not going to happen, I'm just saying it's a question that I feel still needs to be answered.

What Tou has been bringing however will, again IMO, translate against the best teams in wins and that's why he's the only guy I think that we have that I feel like I know could hold down a starting spot on a contending team. I think Deni is a maybe. I think that Clingan, Sharpe and Henderson have a lot of developing to do before I could say that about them but those are the guys on our roster right now that I do hope are starting next season barring trades or hitting big time with our draft pick... however that looks (moving up or getting a guy that other teams missed on).

Tou surprised me with his offense. The way he can finish with either hand is impressive. Solid 3pt shooter and is the best defender on the team. Having said that, Deni is the best overall player we have. A better scorer, rebounder, and passer. What he offers is absolutely what every team needs. I don't want him to be our leading scorer, though. Hopefully, that will be Shae

 

[1 Eye Jack]

Man I just want to see one full year of Scoot/Sharpe/Tou/Deni/Ayton or Clingan.

yeah I had hoped we’d see that last year. Only problem is when we get Flag who sits? Oh never mind Billups will sit him for a couple of years

 

[wizenheimer]

Ummm... what was the point of eating that contract? He was a free agent. We could have just let him walk off to Dallas and been done with it. Wouldn't have had to give up value in the later Washington trade to cut salary either.

I don't see how he has been "very valuable"... first year of his deal we were tanking and had no use for him. This last season he played 15 games.

also, after matching the Thybulle offer sheet, Portland has 'allowed' THREE 8-9M TPE's expire because of barely dodging the tax line. They might not have been able to leverage those TPE's into a prospect or draft capital, but they were options discarded because of bad cap management

 

[HansenYang]

also, after matching the Thybulle offer sheet, Portland has 'allowed' THREE 8-9M TPE's expire because of barely dodging the tax line. They might not have been able to leverage those TPE's into a prospect or draft capital, but they were options discarded because of bad cap management

Oh no... Not 3 expired TPE's.... What the hell is Cronin doing?

Sarcasm aside, the vast majority of TPE's expire un-used round the league. Yes, they CAN be a nice tool. But they are worth far less than a player who is actually producing on a fair contract. (Injury season aside, I'd call Thybulle as a fair contract).

 

[Hoopguru]

Shae has to improve his 3. Props to Hen for improving his, hope it carries over. If we have a starting back court that shoot's low 30's and below we are toast.

 

[inconceivable]

Shae has to improve his 3. Props to Hen for improving his, hope it carries over. If we have a starting back court that shoot's low 30's and below we are toast.

and dribbling skills

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh no... Not 3 expired TPE's.... What the hell is Cronin doing?

Sarcasm aside, the vast majority of TPE's expire un-used round the league. Yes, they CAN be a nice tool. But they are worth far less than a player who is actually producing on a fair contract. (Injury season aside, I'd call Thybulle as a fair contract).

I understand that. However, at trade deadlines, many times relatively useless players have been moved into space and TPE's to get teams below the tax or under an apron. The currency has usually been draft assets. Having options is better than not having options, even minor ones. And I'm not talking about a single TPE in the 8-9M range; I'm talking about 3. There was also a TPE of around 6M that expired

Thybulle a fair contract? maybe; in theory. He was a waste last year on a tanking team barely under the tax line. And you can's really set aside an injury for a player who has averaged less than 60 games a year. He has played only 80 of 164 games for Portland; less than half. So far, it hasn't been a very 'fair' exchange. Maybe that will change next season; maybe not

 

[HansenYang]

I understand that. However, at trade deadlines, many times relatively useless players have been moved into space and TPE's to get teams below the tax or under an apron. The currency has usually been draft assets. Having options is better than not having options, even minor ones. And I'm not talking about a single TPE in the 8-9M range; I'm talking about 3. There was also a TPE of around 6M that expired

Thybulle a fair contract? maybe; in theory. He was a waste last year on a tanking team barely under the tax line. And you can's really set aside an injury for a player who has averaged less than 60 games a year. He has played only 80 of 164 games for Portland; less than half. So far, it hasn't been a very 'fair' exchange. Maybe that will change next season; maybe not

Can you give me a single example of a move Portland 'missed out' on where decent value was exchanged?
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/transactions/trade/_/start/2024-10-01/end/2025-06-01

Best one that I can find is:
2/6/25 -> Philly gives Detroit 2-seconds to dump Kenyon Martin Jr

Most of the others aren't even that good. Regardless, it's definitely not worth the time & effort to continue to beat a dead horse about how 'stupid and incomponent' Portland's front office is....

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I understand that. However, at trade deadlines, many times relatively useless players have been moved into space and TPE's to get teams below the tax or under an apron. The currency has usually been draft assets. Having options is better than not having options, even minor ones. And I'm not talking about a single TPE in the 8-9M range; I'm talking about 3. There was also a TPE of around 6M that expired

Thybulle a fair contract? maybe; in theory. He was a waste last year on a tanking team barely under the tax line. And you can's really set aside an injury for a player who has averaged less than 60 games a year. He has played only 80 of 164 games for Portland; less than half. So far, it hasn't been a very 'fair' exchange. Maybe that will change next season; maybe not

There is value to the team and then value within the league.
If the league views Thybulle’s contract as fair and we can move that contract for fair vLue back, doesn't that make it a fair contract he has, regardless of how many games he played?

im pretty sure gms dont place value of a contract based mainly on how many games the player played. We tanked. Other teams/gms know this and will gauge his contract accordingly.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I understand that. However, at trade deadlines, many times relatively useless players have been moved into space and TPE's to get teams below the tax or under an apron. The currency has usually been draft assets. Having options is better than not having options, even minor ones. And I'm not talking about a single TPE in the 8-9M range; I'm talking about 3. There was also a TPE of around 6M that expired

Thybulle a fair contract? maybe; in theory. He was a waste last year on a tanking team barely under the tax line. And you can's really set aside an injury for a player who has averaged less than 60 games a year. He has played only 80 of 164 games for Portland; less than half. So far, it hasn't been a very 'fair' exchange. Maybe that will change next season; maybe not

He's a very capable player and a fantastic teammate and ambassador for the team.

I'm happy to have him.

 

[andalusian]

He's a very capable player and a fantastic teammate and ambassador for the team.

I'm happy to have him.

I have to say that he is fun to watch

 

[wizenheimer]

Can you give me a single example of a move Portland 'missed out' on where decent value was exchanged?
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/transactions/trade/_/start/2024-10-01/end/2025-06-01

Best one that I can find is:
2/6/25 -> Philly gives Detroit 2-seconds to dump Kenyon Martin Jr

Most of the others aren't even that good. Regardless, it's definitely not worth the time & effort to continue to beat a dead horse about how 'stupid and incomponent' Portland's front office is....

I didn't say one fucking thing in my post about FO incompetence. I simply said, or at least implied, that matching Thybulle's offer sheet eliminated any differential under the tax line that might have allowed an option for using any of the TPE's.

 

[wizenheimer]

He's a very capable player and a fantastic teammate and ambassador for the team.

I'm happy to have him.

I've said before that I was more ok with him being a Blazer than any of the 5 vets Portland carried on the payroll. I still wouldn't have matched the offer sheet but I imagine Cronin/Kolde view Thybulle as an important cog in their playoff chase next season, providing he picks up his option

 

[Phatguysrule]

I've said before that I was more ok with him being a Blazer than any of the 5 vets Portland carried on the payroll. I still wouldn't have matched the offer sheet but I imagine Cronin/Kolde view Thybulle as an important cog in their playoff chase next season, providing he picks up his option

Yeah, not so much disagreeing with you as I'm just voicing my support for Thybulle.

 

[HansenYang]

I didn't say one fucking thing in my post about FO incompetence. I simply said, or at least implied, that matching Thybulle's offer sheet eliminated any differential under the tax line that might have allowed an option for using any of the TPE's.

Maybe not in these most recent 2 posts...

But it's been a consistent theme from you for as long as I have been on this board. It bleeds through almost every interaction with some sort of criticism and/or derogatory statement.

also, after matching the Thybulle offer sheet, Portland has 'allowed' THREE 8-9M TPE's expire because of barely dodging the tax line. They might not have been able to leverage those TPE's into a prospect or draft capital, but they were options discarded because of bad cap management

Stealing from other threads:

I agree that a player available for the MLE won't alter Portland's fortunes any. Another role player won't help

remember, the MLE can be used as a TPE/Cap-space in trades now. So perhaps the best use of Portland's MLE would be taking on salary from a team needing tax/apron relief and willing to send a draft pick for that relief. But before the Blazers can use that option they'd have to dump some salary. They are scheduled for 171M in guarantees and dead salary, and that's before accounting for their 1st (10th pick would be a little over 6M). The tax line will likely be around 187M

life would have been much easier fro Cronin if he hadn't foolishly matched the Thybulle contract

who did you hear it from? I'm kind of skeptical about agenda with that rumor

"Kolde kept me from doing it" is great CYA for Cronin doing nothing

I get it... You're a pessimist. I can be too.

 

[Foxx]

Man I just want to see one full year of Scoot/Sharpe/Tou/Deni/Ayton or Clingan.

Thanks for including DA in this. Sometimes I feel like the only one who sees how he’s the one vet actually worth fitting into the core.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Thanks for including DA in this. Sometimes I feel like the only one who sees how he’s the one vet actually worth fitting into the core.

Yeah, the hate on this guy is a bit over the top. Unless he is replaced with a front-court player who can score, he fills a need.

 

[KingSpeed]

Man I just want to see one full year of Scoot/Sharpe/Tou/Deni/Ayton or Clingan.

With Flagg off the bench?