State of Greg Oden

[Da_O]

Didn't see it posted yet.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-124/The-State-of-Greg-Oden.html

Just saw some video of Greg Oden playing against Brook Lopez and Kevin Love in the USA Basketball Showcase.

Look at him out there! Seven feet tall. Strong as an ox, even though he's just barely legal drinking age. Making rebounds that would be difficult for anyone else look easy. If he were still at Ohio State, anyone would consider drafting him at the top of the lottery, even with his injury history.

And this particular performance has been noted as somewhat encouraging.

I loved a lot of what I saw, particularly his conditioning, and commitment to containing smaller quicker ballhandlers.

But for whatever reason, watching this video was the moment that I lost a chunk of hope. In short: He has clearly been working out, working on his game and getting healthy. And as I have written a zillion times, he's an elite NBA rebounder right now, which is more than reason enough to keep him him on the court.

Nevertheless, you watch this and wonder if he'll ever be Greg Oden, as in the franchise-changing player who is a key part of big runs that win important playoff games. The Oden we have right now has some real and troubling obstacles.

* Even though he has been in the NBA mix for more than two years now, he still looks surprised by a lot of what happens on the court.
* He falls down a lot. Enough that it matters in and of itself. (If every player fell as much as he does, "wipeouts" would be a column in the boxscore.) Even more importantly, that many miscalculations and collisions, it's hard on a body, and he's been the king of injuries. The final reason I bring how often he hits the deck: It's a measure of the degree to which he is not anywhere near "in the zone" out there. When players are just rolling, they say everything seems to go really slow for them. To Oden, things seem to be going really fast.
* If you make ten perfect passes to him at game speed, he might make five decent catches.

He may well get there. He's a really nice seeming guy (to the extend I've met him) and I'm pulling for him. But if he does become a superstar, we should honor his hard work, and also remember to look around for some coaches and trainers to thank for their hard work -- because we've seen enough to know he's not a natural.

 

[hasoos]

I completely disagree with the catching passes part. That dude is fargin high. Oden has good hands, and if anything, the problem was last year nobody threw the ball to Oden when he was wide open. Game after game, guys would look right at him open by the hoop and not throw him the ball.

 

[PapaG]

If you make ten perfect passes to him at game speed, he might make five decent catches.

This is my concern because we've all noticed it. Hopefully as he becomes more comfortable, he'll be able to catch passes on a regular basis. The guy has great hands rebounding, so it's not like he's a total clod with his hands.

 

[PapaG]

I completely disagree with the catching passes part. That dude is fargin high. Oden has good hands, and if anything, the problem was last year nobody threw the ball to Oden when he was wide open. Game after game, guys would look right at him open by the hoop and not throw him the ball.

We don't see the practices, and we don't know how he was catching those passes in practice. You have to earn your teammates trust; if you don't do it in practice, don't expect it in the game.

 

[ODENISGOD]

Please stop talking about GOD. Let him be and don't worry about it. Start talking about hm opening night. You have been warned

 

[mgb]

I recall only seeing him go down once in the last video I watch and that was going for the ball.

And the part about when people fall it goes slow for them but fast for Oden is obvious pure speculation. This smacks of how just seeing him and Durant watlk statement a writer wrote in the past.

 

[mgb]

This is my concern because we've all noticed it. Hopefully as he becomes more comfortable, he'll be able to catch passes on a regular basis. The guy has great hands rebounding, so it's not like he's a total clod with his hands.

I didn't notice that. What I notice was him keeping the ball low and it being stripped which is easy to remedy.

 

[Minstrel]

Seemed a bit reactionary to me, but that's often part of being a fan and Henry Abbott is a fan. The video neither thrilled me nor depressed me. Oden is in the process of getting into the shape he wants to be and this coming season will be his first at full strength. If he hasn't made major strides by the end of the season, I'll be worried.

 

[PapaG]

I didn't notice that. What I notice was him keeping the ball low and it being stripped which is easy to remedy.

That too, but I recall him fumbling the ball out of bounds a few times. Hopefully it was just a matter of him being not fully healthy and unable to move as fast as the game.

 

[PapaG]

Seemed a bit reactionary to me, but that's often part of being a fan and Henry Abbott is a fan. The video neither thrilled me nor depressed me. He's in the process of getting into the shape he wants to be and this coming season will be his first at full strength. If he hasn't made major strides by the end of the season, I'll be worried.

The videos showed me that Durant is ready to become a superstar. I say that as a staunch Oden supporter before the draft and today. I hope he turns it on this year.

 

[BrianFromWA]

We don't see the practices, and we don't know how he was catching those passes in practice. You have to earn your teammates trust; if you don't do it in practice, don't expect it in the game.

This is the only part that makes it a question for me. For all the times I'd scream at Blake to throw him the ball, you could tell that it wasn't even on his radar to do so. Good point to bring up that maybe it WAS b/c of things that went on in practice. But I submit that the few times plays were drawn up for him (Rudy's bullet pass from the corner; LMA's high-low) it worked out pretty well, especially later in the season. I'm willing to give the B.o.D. to the Blazer guards if that was the case, though I don't remember seeing as much "butterfingers" as "ball getting stripped as he was hacked mercilessly and no foul called" turnovers.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I was a little depressed watching the video BUT:
1. It was the culmination of the "International Week of Oden" and was a bit of a damp squib.
2. A lot of very solid players (e.g., Millsap) also looked very ordinary, while a lot of players who are volume scorers on crappy teams looked good (Rudy Gay). That sounds like All-Star-Itis to me. (How many All Star MVPs has player-of-the-decade Tim Duncan won?)
Think about it: this game was very close to OKC (Durant, Green, Westbrook) vs. Memphis (Gay, Mayo). Not a marquee attraction!
3. It sounds like Oden's +/- would've been off the charts, and the converse of super-flashy JaVale McGee's.
4. I imagine Patrick Ewing in that setting. It would not have looked any different, except he wouldn't have made it past half court on most trips.

 

[Minstrel]

The videos showed me that Durant is ready to become a superstar.

Last season showed me that.

I say that as a staunch Oden supporter before the draft and today.

What does being an "Oden supporter" have to do with evaluating Durant's talent? I'm clearly a big Oden supporter and I always expected Durant to become a star or superstar. I considered both Oden and Durant to be special talents. Oden was set back by his injury, but I expect him to make big jumps over this season and next.

Whether or not that happens, Durant is clearly a fantastic player. I think Oden was the right selection on draft day, and I'd still rather have Oden, but it was always possible that Durant would end up the better player.

 

[PapaG]

Last season showed me that.



What does being an "Oden supporter" have to do with evaluating Durant's talent? I'm clearly a big Oden supporter and I always expected Durant to become a star or superstar. I considered both Oden and Durant to be special talents. Oden was set back by his injury, but I expect him to make big jumps over this season and next.

Whether or not that happens, Durant is clearly a fantastic player. I think Oden was the right selection on draft day, and I'd still rather have Oden, but it was always possible that Durant would end up the better player.

It was more of disclaimer than anything else. I never said that being an Oden supporter clouded my objectivity in evaluating Durant. My stating that the video showed me that Durant is ready to become a superstar could be viewed as a slam on Oden; hence my disclaimer. I didn't want 3 pages of "you think Oden suxxx??" or "Durant doesn't make his teammates better!!!" this afternoon.

 

[Da_O]

Seemed a bit reactionary to me, but that's often part of being a fan and Henry Abbott is a fan. The video neither thrilled me nor depressed me. Oden is in the process of getting into the shape he wants to be and this coming season will be his first at full strength. If he hasn't made major strides by the end of the season, I'll be worried.

You're too objective, Oden is terrible and I'd like you to acknowledge it. I keed.

 

[LittleAlex]

Seemed a bit reactionary to me, but that's often part of being a fan and Henry Abbott is a fan. The video neither thrilled me nor depressed me. Oden is in the process of getting into the shape he wants to be and this coming season will be his first at full strength. If he hasn't made major strides by the end of the season, I'll be worried.

Henry Abbott once called Oden the most awkward professional athlete of all time.

So take anything the man says about Oden with a giant grain of salt.

Will provide the link when I get home from work. Don't have time to look for it now.

 

[Ed O]

Henry Abbott once called Oden the most awkward professional athlete of all time.

So take anything the man says about Oden with a giant grain of salt.

Will provide the link when I get home from work. Don't have time to look for it now.

Are you sure it was Abbott and not Bill Simmons?

Ed O.

 

[LittleAlex]

Are you sure it was Abbott and not Bill Simmons?

Ed O.

The actual quote is here.

Of course, my memory played tricks on me.

He did say the following

At this early stage of his career, he might move more awkwardly than any professional athlete I have ever seen. I don't expect that to last. [\QUOTE]

This was after the Golden State game where he played pretty well. Still, Henry must have never seen Manute Bol, Mark Eaton, or Jack Halley "play" basketball.

 

[PapaG]

The actual quote is here.

Of course, my memory played tricks on me.

He did say the following

At this early stage of his career, he might move more awkwardly than any professional athlete I have ever seen. I don't expect that to last.

This was after the Golden State game where he played pretty well. Still, Henry must have never seen Manute Bol, Mark Eaton, or Jack Halley "play" basketball.

To be fair, Abbot did say "might", although I'd just as soon forget about the comparitives you used because they don't exactly reflect well on Oden.

"Oh well, at least he's not Jack Haley"!

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Sometimes I wonder if Henry doesn't just use Greg's struggles to try to prove to the espn readers that he isn't a homer like he's often accused of being in the comments.

 

[PapaG]

Sometimes I wonder if Henry doesn't just use Greg's struggles to try to prove to the espn readers that he isn't a homer like he's often accused of being in the comments.

Seems to me he was pretty fair in the article posted at the beginning of the thread. Oden was just another player at the camp. It's not like he dominated his counterparts in the post.

 

[Minstrel]

Sometimes I wonder if Henry doesn't just use Greg's struggles to try to prove to the espn readers that he isn't a homer like he's often accused of being in the comments.

I think he was never sold on Oden. I remember between the draft lottery and the draft, he began speculating that perhaps Durant should be the Blazers' choice.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Seems to me he was pretty fair in the article posted at the beginning of the thread. Oden was just another player at the camp. It's not like he dominated his counterparts in the post.

Not offensively, but he's received only glowing comments about his defense and his rebounding. It was more I think that Henry has a tendency to exaggerate the awkwardness of Greg to try to suggest impartial observation. For instance he suggests in the video that Greg falls down a lot, whereas he only 'fell' down once. He did throw himself to the floor several times to get a rebound which I would classify from differently than falling down.

Then the two years comments which he makes totally out of context. Greg has played about 67 nba games at an average of 22ish minutes a game, that's not anywhere near two years and he's obviously still adjusting. This should be expected, and he doesn't look surprised at a lot of things that happen. He looks surprised at a few things, yes, but not a lot.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

I think he was never sold on Oden. I remember between the draft lottery and the draft, he began speculating that perhaps Durant should be the Blazers' choice.

This is also true as I do remember that, but I maintain that I believe he uses these types of columns at times in an attempt to prove his objectivity.

 

[PapaG]

Not offensively, but he's received only glowing comments about his defense and his rebounding. It was more I think that Henry has a tendency to exaggerate the awkwardness of Greg to try to suggest impartial observation. For instance he suggests in the video that Greg falls down a lot, whereas he only 'fell' down once. He did throw himself to the floor several times to get a rebound which I would classify from differently than falling down.

Then the two years comments which he makes totally out of context. Greg has played about 67 nba games at an average of 22ish minutes a game, that's not anywhere near two years and he's obviously still adjusting. This should be expected, and he doesn't look surprised at a lot of things that happen. He looks surprised at a few things, yes, but not a lot.

I'm pulling for Greg, and the team needs Greg badly to be on the court, but I'm not going to bash Abbott for accurately (albeit subjectively) describing the less-than-stellar aspects of Oden's game. I don't read it as being unfair; I read it as another perspective on how Oden looks outside of the glowing reports. I mean, we had two days of people trying to trade Przy because of Casey Holdahl's Tweets on how superawesome Oden looked. I don't mind reading another angle from another set of eyes.

 

[PapaG]

This is also true as I do remember that, but I maintain that I believe he uses these types of columns at times in an attempt to prove his objectivity.

Perhaps, or maybe he is actually objective.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

Perhaps, or maybe he is actually objective.

I don't think you really understand what I am trying to convey, so let me be a bit more clear.

I think Henry is pretty objective for being a fan, but because he is a well known Blazer fan his readers often get on his case about being a Blazer homer as an employee of ESPN.

I don't think Henry is being unfair in his general assessment of Greg, but I do think he exaggerates some of his points in an attempt to seem more objective to the aforementioned reader base.

Edit: Quick edit, I realize my opening statement in this post comes off as being an asshole and that was not intended. It was more of a: I don't think you understand what I am trying to convey because I am doing a muddled job of conveying it, so let me try to clear my presentation up.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Are you sure it was Abbott and not Bill Simmons?

Ed O.

Actually I was wondering if it was Kevin Arnovitz who co-writes for Truehoop ... if this was Simmons do you really think he would have had anything to except what a bust he is?

 

[Ed O]

Actually I was wondering if it was Kevin Arnovitz who co-writes for Truehoop ... if this was Simmons do you really think he would have had anything to except what a bust he is?

I meant the quote about him being the most awkward ever. I don't think that BS writes for Truehoop.

Ed O.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Perhaps, or maybe he is actually objective.

It's kind of funny that non-Blazer fans accuse him of being a homer, while some Portland fans accuse him of being a hater.

When you annoy everybody, you must be getting pretty close to the truth!