Stats thus far this season

[TorturedBlazerFan]

There are differing degrees of suckage. Turner PER = 11.6 = deserving of rotation minutes. Curry PER = 4.5 = doesn't belong in the NBA (according to Hollinger).

Obviously, Curry is having a down year (WAY the fuck down). Whatever the reason, is that any reason to let him continue to drag the team down with him? Time to lose the dead weight. Give his minutes to Layman.

Again, I ask - How is a second unit of:

Turner
Stauskas
Layman
Collins
Leonard

worse in any way than:

Turner
Curry
Stauskas
Collins
Meyers

I can't think of any. It removes the unproductive, undersized SG, lets Stauskas play his best, most natural position and gives more minutes to a guy who us actually producing.

BNM

It's not worse, but they both suck. I am pretty much of the opinion the bench will suck as long as ET is part of it. Sure his PER is ok, but they force the ball into his hands ALL the time. It's like how WB inflates his stats, except Turner's not even in the same realm of athlete as westbrook is.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I've asked this question several times and you keep avoiding answering it:

How is a second unit of:

Turner
Stauskas
Layman
Collins
Leonard

worse in any way than:

Turner
Curry
Stauskas
Collins
Meyers

Please answer the question, or at least come up with a viable alternative to our current second unit that has been awful lately.

BNM

I did. I said. Curry, Nik, Layman, Collins and Leonard. Or Curry, Nik, Harkless, Collins and Leonard. a while ago.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Because the team with Jake has 4 white guys, FOUR !!

The Hootie and the Blowfish line up. Earlier this week they announced a new tour and will be releasing a new album. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what it. The time is right:

Make it happen, Terry.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

The Hootie and the Blowfish line up. Earlier this week they announced a new tour and will be releasing a new album. If that isn't a sign, I don't know what it. The time is right:

Make it happen, Terry.

BNM

I don't know a single person who bought one of their albums. I do know guys who got their ass kicked when they put that shit on at a party. My guess is that country fans who usually hate rock n' roll bought that because it vaguely reminded them of the 90's Garth Brook/Brooks & Dunn songwriting that was popular in Nashville at the time.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I did. I said. Curry, Nik, Layman, Collins and Leonard. Or Curry, Nik, Harkless, Collins and Leonard. a while ago.

Not seeing how either of those are better, either offensively, or defensively, than Turner, Stauskas, Layman, Collins and Leonard. Turner has a career AST% of 19.5 with a career best 30.0 (currently 22.7). He's also 5" taller than Curry. The only thing he does worse that Curry is shoot the 3. Fine, the goal was to surround Turner with shooters. Stauskas, Layman, Collins and Leonard accomplishes that goal.

You seem to hate Turner so much that you are overlooking Curry's deficiencies. Would you feel the same way if Turner was making $2.8 million and Curry was the guy making $17.8 in his 3rd season here? Regardless of what they are being paid, Turner, for all his faults just flat out out produces Curry.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I don't know a single person who bought one of their albums. I do know guys who got their ass kicked when they put that shit on at a party. My guess is that country fans who usually hate rock n' roll bought that because it vaguely reminded them of the 90's Garth Brook/Brooks & Dunn songwriting that was popular in Nashville at the time.

My ex-wife bought Cracked Rear Window. So did 21 million others in the US alone. It was the best selling album of 1995 and is the 19th best selling album (US sales) of all time. So yeah, you probably do know someone who bought it. They just don't want to admit it.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

My ex-wide bought Cracked Rear Window. So did 21 million others in the US alone. It was the best selling album of 1995 and is the 19th best selling album (US sales) of all time. So yeah, you probably do know someone who bought it. They just don't want to admit it.

BNM

Yeah. I know how much it sold. Been trying to convince myself all these years it didn't. No, I am sure I had some passing acquaintances in college who bought it. But it your willing to play that shit out in the open, you're probably proud you own it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't know a single person who bought one of their albums. I do know guys who got their ass kicked when they put that shit on at a party. My guess is that country fans who usually hate rock n' roll bought that because it vaguely reminded them of the 90's Garth Brook/Brooks & Dunn songwriting that was popular in Nashville at the time.

Did you know that Boston had the best selling debut albulm of all time until Hootie released thier first?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Not seeing how either of those are better, either offensively, or defensively, than Turner, Stauskas, Layman, Collins and Leonard. Turner has a career AST% of 19.5 with a career best 30.0 (currently 22.7). He's also 5" taller than Curry. The only thing he does worse that Curry is shoot the 3. Fine, the goal was to surround Turner with shooters. Stauskas, Layman, Collins and Leonard accomplishes that goal.

You seem to hate Turner so much that you are overlooking Curry's deficiencies. Would you feel the same way if Turner was making $2.8 million and Curry was the guy making $17.8 in his 3rd season here? Regardless of what they are being paid, Turner, for all his faults just flat out out produces Curry.

BNM

Yes I don't really care how much they get paid it's not my money. I don't hate ET. I just think his skillset is a huge detriment to the way Stott's offense runs. All those shooters Especially the guards who have other guards following them have a tougher job to get open just because ET being on the court means that the defense can squeeze passing lanes, and can play them different than they would if someone was running point who could actually shoot even a little bit... ET is also turn over prone his ast rate is 22.7 but his to rate is 19.7. Curry's actually pretty bad at that too his to percentage is like 16% (I might be wrong on that). I just think ET just kills the flow of the 2nd unit. Almost all the time the 2nd unit has done well it's been when 3 point shooters have had spacing to get off 3 pointers. He's kind of counter productive in that regard.

I'm not claiming at all that Curry is really good. I'm saying I think he should get a chance to run the show for a while without ET and see if that changes things. I am not a fan of ET if you couldn't tell. I'm not claiming that will fix it, I just think they should TRY it. The ET experiment to me just needs to end. Also yes they need to play Layman more.


Edit: I should rephrase part of this. I don't care how they get paid in this conversation. Of course when talking salary stuff, or NO's or whatever I recognize that's important. I look at this more for these are the guys on the roster.

 

[ripcityboy]

Did you know that Boston had the best selling debut albulm of all time until Hootie released thier first?

Of course, Tom Scholtz is a genius! Guy graduated MIT before HAND CRAFTING his own studio to make that album and even invented an entire new gadget to listen to guitar called The Rockman (which is still used today.) That album is a sonic masterpiece, not just chocked full of great songs.

(sings) I see my Mary Anne walking awaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy!

 

[Orion Bailey]

Of course, Tom Scholtz is a genius! Guy graduated MIT before HAND CRAFTING his own studio to make that album and even invented an entire new gadget to listen to guitar called The Rockman (which is still used today.) That album is a sonic masterpiece, not just chocked full of great songs.

(sings) I see my Mary Anne walking awaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy!

Yep. right there with rush 2112 for me

 

[ripcityboy]

Yep. right there with rush 2112 for me

Too bad about Brad Delp. He never got any credit for having such an amazing voice.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Too bad about Brad Delp. He never got any credit for having such an amazing voice.

None of them do really in my opinion. When do you hear of a Boston singer in the discussion of one of the greats? But he was.

Same with billy joel. His piano took the fore front but his voice is one of my favs of all time.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yes I don't really care how much they get paid it's not my money. I don't hate ET. I just think his skillset is a huge detriment to the way Stott's offense runs. All those shooters Especially the guards who have other guards following them have a tougher job to get open just because ET being on the court means that the defense can squeeze passing lanes, and can play them different than they would if someone was running point who could actually shoot even a little bit... ET is also turn over prone his ast rate is 22.7 but his to rate is 19.7. Curry's actually pretty bad at that too his to percentage is like 16% (I might be wrong on that). I just think ET just kills the flow of the 2nd unit. Almost all the time the 2nd unit has done well it's been when 3 point shooters have had spacing to get off 3 pointers. He's kind of counter productive in that regard.

I'm not claiming at all that Curry is really good. I'm saying I think he should get a chance to run the show for a while without ET and see if that changes things. I am not a fan of ET if you couldn't tell. I'm not claiming that will fix it, I just think they should TRY it. The ET experiment to me just needs to end. Also yes they need to play Layman more.


Edit: I should rephrase part of this. I don't care how they get paid in this conversation. Of course when talking salary stuff, or NO's or whatever I recognize that's important. I look at this more for these are the guys on the roster.

I think the theory with Turner is if you put the ball in his hands, you force the other team to guard him. If not, he'll just drive into the paint and score - which he is actually pretty good at:

From 0 - 3 feet:
Turner = .667 FG%
Dame = .556 FG%
C.J. = .538 FG%

From 3 - 10 feet:
Turner = .393 FG%
Dame = .351 FG%
C.J. = .412 FG%

Since he can't shoot from 3, you need to surround him with guys who can space the floor. In theory, Curry could be one of those guys. In practice he isn't. This worked in BOS, because they surrounded him with good perimeter defenders that could shoot from down town. Curry is just an undersized version of Allen Crabbe. He's a 1-dimensional 3-point shooter who cannot create for himself, or others. He has been assisted on a very Crabbe-like .947 of his made 3-pointers. He is basically only effective as a stand still catch-and-shoot 3-point specialist. Basically, Crabbe minus $17 million in salary and 5" in height.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

None of them do really in my opinion. When do you hear of a Boston singer in the discussion of one of the greats? But he was.

Same with billy joel. His piano took the fore front but his voice is one of my favs of all time.

Well Delp you probably have a genuine argument there. Joel probably doesn't because he's a moody drunk who pisses off even his old band mates. Hard to find people to champion your cause when you're a dick.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think the theory with Turner is if you put the ball in his hands, you force the other team to guard him. If not, he'll just drive into the paint and score - which he is actually pretty good at:

From 0 - 3 feet:
Turner = .667 FG%
Dame = .556 FG%
C.J. = .538 FG%

From 3 - 10 feet:
Turner = .393 FG%
Dame = .351 FG%
C.J. = .412 FG%

Since he can't shoot from 3, you need to surround him with guys who can space the floor. In theory, Curry could be one of those guys. In practice he isn't. This worked in BOS, because they surrounded him with good perimeter defenders that could shoot from down town. Curry is just an undersized version of Allen Crabbe. He's a 1-dimensional 3-point shooter who cannot create for himself, or others. He has been assisted on a very Crabbe-like .947 of his made 3-pointers. He is basically only effective as a stand still catch-and-shoot 3-point specialist. Basically, Crabbe minus $17 million in salary and 5" in height.

BNM

Sure. I mean why not throw someone else in there with Turner. It might work, I dont really think it will as I think the problem is Turner. Im not talking about his contract I just dont think he fits the system. Layman has definitely out performed Curry not questioning that, so go ahead and put him out there.

I just dont think they’ll have a succesful bench (long term) as long as they try to run the offense through him, could be wrong maybe they put layman out there and they get way better.

Maybe they bench both of them. Nik, Trent Jr, Layman, Zach and Meyers. No true PG, but theres a lot of shooting out there.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Of course, Tom Scholtz is a genius! Guy graduated MIT before HAND CRAFTING his own studio to make that album and even invented an entire new gadget to listen to guitar called The Rockman (which is still used today.) That album is a sonic masterpiece, not just chocked full of great songs.

(sings) I see my Mary Anne walking awaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy!

Look for one with Wally in the deadwax. I have a non-Wally and the Wally definitely sounds a lot better. You just inspired me to give it a spin now.

Avoid the picture disk. Like most picture disks, it looks cool, but sounds like shit:

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Sure. I mean why not throw someone else in there with Turner. It might work, I dont really think it will as I think the problem is Turner. Im not talking about his contract I just dont think he fits the system. Layman has definitely out performed Curry not questioning that, so go ahead and put him out there.

I just dont think they’ll have a succesful bench (long term) as long as they try to run the offense through him, could be wrong maybe they put layman out there and they get way better.

Maybe they bench both of them. Nik, Trent Jr, Layman, Zach and Meyers. No true PG, but theres a lot of shooting out there.

They had a successful bench in BOS with Turner as the main ball handler. So, historically, it was proven to work. Terry just needs to find it out and surround him with the right players.

Curry's one successful season was in DAL where he started at SG for a 33-win team that was dead last in the league in scoring. I just don't see how giving him more minutes and an expanded role will help.

BNM

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

They had a successful bench in BOS with Turner as the main ball handler. So, historically, it was proven to work. Terry just needs to find it out and surround him with the right players.

Curry's one successful season was in DAL where he started at SG for a 33-win team that was dead last in the league in scoring. I just don't see how giving him more minutes and an expanded role will help.

BNM

Fair enough. I think Turners had one good year. On a more talented Bench than Portlands. We could go round and round all day lol.

Anyways I get it, if they benched Curry and put Layman out there I wouldnt be upset. They gotta do something. I know they just crushed Phoenix and hopefully that gets them going again. I just feel like the bench needs work, which I believe you agree with me at least that much. So try some new stuff. Also play Play Layman... Seriously why did they bench him, and why did I get the feeling if CJ’s back Layman will be back on the bench...

 

[Boob-No-More]

Fair enough. I think Turners had one good year. On a more talented Bench than Portlands. We could go round and round all day lol.

Anyways I get it, if they benched Curry and put Layman out there I wouldnt be upset. They gotta do something. I know they just crushed Phoenix and hopefully that gets them going again. I just feel like the bench needs work, which I believe you agree with me at least that much. So try some new stuff. Also play Play Layman... Seriously why did they bench him, and why did I get the feeling if CJ’s back Layman will be back on the bench...

I like Layman with the second unit. He's actually playing better (significantly better) than Harkless, but he'll get more touches with the second unit than being the 5th option with the starters. Let Harkless get the Vonleh start, with more minutes and more shots for Layman.

BNM

 

[jlprk]

Curry is not, and never has been, a natural PG. He's an undersized SG in a PG's body...Like C.J. his natural tendency is to look for his own shot, not his open teammates.

You expected anything else from Olshey?

You have to ask yourself, if he's a natural PG, why hasn't he ever been allowed to play the position?

His career was 50% at PG until this season. It's still 47%, career.

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/fOupy

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Give the minutes to someone who deserves them.

BNM

Bullshit. Give the minutes to the lineup that plays best as a group. If one of that group seems to be miraculously a part of successful groups despite his anemic contribution, so fucking what? Your job is success not meritocracy.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Again, I ask - How is a second unit of:

Turner
Stauskas
Layman
Collins
Leonard

worse in any way than:

Turner
Curry
Stauskas
Collins
Meyers

I can't think of any.

Their ability cannot be determined a priori. They're better if they do better and not otherwise.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Bullshit. Give the minutes to the lineup that plays best as a group. If one of that group seems to be miraculously a part of successful groups despite his anemic contribution, so fucking what? Your job is success not meritocracy.

I agree. The best unit should get the minutes. I never said otherwise. However, if one player is dragging the rest down due to lack of production, it's time to look at a change.

Remember back in early November when the Blazers had the second highest coring bench in the league? Well, they have now dropped to 20th in bench scoring. The bench has been abysmal lately, and Curry is the least productive player on the second unit. So, it's time for a change, and the change that makes the most sense is to try replacing the individual that is contributing the least.

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I agree. The best unit should get the minutes. I never said otherwise. However, if one player is dragging the rest down

How do you measure "dragging the rest down"? Again, if AS A UNIT they are doing better THAN THE OPPONENT by the largest margin when he plays, how is that dragging anybody down?

 

[Boob-No-More]

How do you measure "dragging the rest down"? Again, if AS A UNIT they are doing better THAN THE OPPONENT by the largest margin when he plays, how is that dragging anybody down?

Please provide stats and a source that shows recent 2nd unit performance with and without Curry. His play fails the eye test (to me, at least) and his individual contributions are almost non-existent.

How do you know replacing him with a more productive player like Layman won't improve our second unit performance? I haven't looked it up, but until very recently Layman was getting the "Vonleh start" and playing very little with the second unit. If you have stats that show otherwise, please share them.

BNM