STELLAR TANKING JOB, JOE!

[barfo]

Hilari0us that you have faith in this current administration to do that. I have resigned myself to the high probability that we will not contend until Jody sells the team.

It's a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

It'll probably still be a pig after you put the new owner's preferred shade of lipstick on it.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

Hilari0us that you have faith in this current administration to do that. I have resigned myself to the high probability that we will not contend until Jody sells the team.

It's a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

An ugly ass pig at that.

 

[e_blazer]

She has to sell by 2028? That's great news. Has that been confirmed?

I mistakenly posted this in the wrong thread:

dviss may be correct that it gets done by 2028, but I don't think that there's any "has to" date set in concrete. The last report I saw was this tweet (X?) from Rachel Bachman:




When Jody first addressed the subject in 2022, she said that her brother's estate was complex and that it wasn't unusual for it to take 10-20 years to wind up an estate like that. I don't think that there's any way that she sells the team before the new media deal is worked out. The current one ends after next season.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Hilari0us that you have faith in this current administration to do that. I have resigned myself to the high probability that we will not contend until Jody sells the team.

It's a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

I never said I had faith in them to do anything. Was just asking if that did happen if you would change your mind.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

She has to sell by 2028? That's great news. Has that been confirmed?

No, it's a rumored part of the trust but sounds like she can delay - possibly indefinitely.

Pretty stupid Paul Allen set it up this way.

Honestly would prefer he just gifted her the team, as then she'd have a direct incentive for revenue, running it well, and a cash windfall for selling. This odd structure where she gets 100+ million per year as trust manager might make her just hold on and fight any sale until she dies. Then who the hell knows what the next trust manager does.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I mistakenly posted this in the wrong thread:

dviss may be correct that it gets done by 2028, but I don't think that there's any "has to" date set in concrete. The last report I saw was this tweet (X?) from Rachel Bachman:




When Jody first addressed the subject in 2022, she said that her brother's estate was complex and that it wasn't unusual for it to take 10-20 years to wind up an estate like that. I don't think that there's any way that she sells the team before the new media deal is worked out. The current one ends after next season.

Why do you think Jody cares about a media deal? She doesn't get the proceeds from selling the team. She gets 100+ million from "managing" it which may be reduced or go away completely if she sells.

It's been 6 years since Allen died and we've had zero movement on her selling.

In 10-20 years she'll be saying we're still 10-20 years away from wrapping up the estate.

 

[Phatguysrule]

No, it's a rumored part of the trust but sounds like she can delay - possibly indefinitely.

Pretty stupid Paul Allen set it up this way.

Honestly would prefer he just gifted her the team, as then she'd have a direct incentive for revenue, running it well, and a cash windfall for selling. This odd structure where she gets 100+ million per year as trust manager might make her just hold on and fight any sale until she dies. Then who the hell knows what the next trust manager does.

Agreed

 

[barfo]

No, it's a rumored part of the trust but sounds like she can delay - possibly indefinitely.

Pretty stupid Paul Allen set it up this way.

Honestly would prefer he just gifted her the team, as then she'd have a direct incentive for revenue, running it well, and a cash windfall for selling. This odd structure where she gets 100+ million per year as trust manager might make her just hold on and fight any sale until she dies. Then who the hell knows what the next trust manager does.

Not sure I see the basis for any of that.

The trust has sold off lots and lots of assets already, just not this particular one. If your theory was correct that she's holding onto assets to line her bank account, why would she have sold any assets?

Also, she's a multi-billionaire already. She hardly needs whatever pay she gets for winding up the estate.

And I think the $100 million figure is speculation, not fact. And if the speculation is $100 million per year, rather than total, I strongly suspect the speculation is way off base.

Part of her job is to maximize the return on the assets, so as to increase the impact of the philanthropic giving that follows.

It seems to me that a plausible explanation is that she's trying to sell assets when the market for each appears most favorable.

Paul Allen started worrying about dying in the early 1980s. He lived another 35 years. He had access to very good legal representation the entire time. He was himself a very bright guy.

The idea that he was 'pretty stupid' to set his estate up this way is not very credible.

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

Why do you think Jody cares about a media deal? She doesn't get the proceeds from selling the team. She gets 100+ million from "managing" it which may be reduced or go away completely if she sells.

It's been 6 years since Allen died and we've had zero movement on her selling.

In 10-20 years she'll be saying we're still 10-20 years away from wrapping up the estate.

I think the new deal will provide more income to the league and will probably double the value of the Blazers.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not sure I see the basis for any of that.

The trust has sold off lots and lots of assets already, just not this particular one. If your theory was correct that she's holding onto assets to line her bank account, why would she have sold any assets?

Also, she's a multi-billionaire already. She hardly needs whatever pay she gets for winding up the estate.

And I think the $100 million figure is speculation, not fact. And if the speculation is $100 million per year, rather than total, I strongly suspect the speculation is way off base.

Part of her job is to maximize the return on the assets, so as to increase the impact of the philanthropic giving that follows.

It seems to me that a plausible explanation is that she's trying to sell assets when the market for each appears most favorable.

Paul Allen started worrying about dying in the early 1980s. He lived another 35 years. He had access to very good legal representation the entire time. He was himself a very bright guy.

The idea that he was 'pretty stupid' to set his estate up this way is not very credible.

barfo

Yeah, I don't think Paul Allen was stupid at all. I think it just kinda sucks for the fans.

 

[Hoopguru]

Why do you think Jody cares about a media deal? She doesn't get the proceeds from selling the team. She gets 100+ million from "managing" it which may be reduced or go away completely if she sells.

It's been 6 years since Allen died and we've had zero movement on her selling.

In 10-20 years she'll be saying we're still 10-20 years away from wrapping up the estate.

It's really a Golden Goose laying Golden eggs for Jody. I wonder if there are any constraints on who she cannot see too?

 

[Hoopguru]

At a time when the value of NFL and NBA teams continues to mushroom, there’s no reason to sell now. As to the Seahawks, the deal to build the team’s stadium contains a requirement to give 10 percent of the proceeds to the state of Washington if the team is sold before May 21, 2024.

Still, it’s unclear how long the estate will keep the Seahawks after May 21, 2024. As purchase prices go from a record high of $4.65 billion last year to $6.05 billion this year, why not wait?

 

[C_note]

Still haven't heard the "anti-Tank" brigade put together a single coherent thought that isn't wildly speculative, on what they would be doing differently with this team.

 

[wizenheimer]

Not sure I see the basis for any of that.

The trust has sold off lots and lots of assets already, just not this particular one. If your theory was correct that she's holding onto assets to line her bank account, why would she have sold any assets?

care to elaborate?

I know a super-yacht was sold; and a majority of PA's art collection (1.5B). Also, about 250-350M in real estate. If PA's estate was valued at the reported 20B, those real estate sales would amount to less than 2% of the estate. And from what I've read it may be that those holdings had the highest expenses and the most risk

https://www.businessinsider.com/paul-allen-estate-sells-real-estate-seattle-nyc-2022-7

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/arts/design/paul-allen-auction-christies.html

I saw an article in a Seattle paper a couple of months ago that said that the total liquidation value of the assets sold in the 6 years since PA died was less than 8% of the estate's value.

but mostly, the article said that publicly available information on the trust's operation only outlined vague timelines. That the proceeds from any sale of assets did not need to be converted into immediate transfers into charities, but instead could be folded back into the estate and transferred at a 'later' time. In other words, it might be that the 1.5B in proceeds from the art collection sale could have been dumped back into funds the estate manages. Same for the real estate.

I've tried to google how much the estate had donated to charity since his death, but that information seems pretty vague

Jody Allen can have two intentions that aren't really in conflict: one is that she fully intends to donate the estate to charity. The other is that she intends to slow-walk those donations for years. That's what most would do if they were earning 3% of the state's value every year as the executor.

 

[barfo]

care to elaborate?

I know a super-yacht was sold; and a majority of PA's art collection (1.5B). Also, about 250-350M in real estate. If PA's estate was valued at the reported 20B, those real estate sales would amount to less than 2% of the estate. And from what I've read it may be that those holdings had the highest expenses and the most risk

It would probably make sense to sell high expense, high risk assets.

The problem we have is that we don't have a full listing of what assets Paul owned, and what has been sold.
We know some stuff has been sold. We don't necessarily know the full list of what's been sold.
We know some stuff that hasn't been sold. We don't necessarily know the full list of what hasn't been sold, but we do know the Blazers haven't been sold.

I saw an article in a Seattle paper a couple of months ago that said that the total liquidation value of the assets sold in the 6 years since PA died was less than 8% of the estate's value.

But is that an actual fact, or is that just a result of adding up what's publicly known to have been sold?

but mostly, the article said that publicly available information on the trust's operation only outlined vague timelines. That the proceeds from any sale of assets did not need to be converted into immediate transfers into charities, but instead could be folded back into the estate and transferred at a 'later' time. In other words, it might be that the 1.5B in proceeds from the art collection sale could have been dumped back into funds the estate manages. Same for the real estate.

I've tried to google how much the estate had donated to charity since his death, but that information seems pretty vague

Yes, exactly. There is so much we don't know. It would sure be nice if the process was more transparent.

However, should we assume the worst? Because we don't know the details, should we assume Jody is greedily grabbing as much of the estate as she possibly can? Should we assume she is using that money to fund ISIS? Is she, in fact, Satan?

Of course she is! The team is not very successful, obviously it's because she's an evildoer.

Jody Allen can have two intentions that aren't really in conflict: one is that she fully intends to donate the estate to charity. The other is that she intends to slow-walk those donations for years. That's what most would do if they were earning 3% of the state's value every year as the executor.

Those are in conflict - if she's really draining the estate, then she doesn't fully intend to donate it.
But we don't even know if she gets paid at all for managing the trust, much less that it is 3% of the estate's value every year. That's just a completely made up number, isn't it?

barfo

 

[wizenheimer]

But we don't even know if she gets paid at all for managing the trust, much less that it is 3% of the estate's value every year. That's just a completely made up number, isn't it?

barfo

she's gettng paid. The link to PA's will and estate plan was posted here a while back. In the will, she is named the executor and the will explicitly says a "reasonable" management fee for the executor will be paid

as for the fee itself, the actual percentage is unknown, and again what i a "reasonable" fee is very vague. But there is this:



my half-brother (CPA) was the executor of a family estate in Colorado value around 12M. It took a little over 3 years to settle the estate and his fee (for him and his firm) was 2.75% annually.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

my half-brother (CPA) was the executor of a family estate in Colorado value around 12M. It took a little over 3 years to settle the estate and his fee (for him and his firm) was 2.75% annually.

One might argue that while 300K might be a reasonable annual estate management fee for a legitimate CPA firm, perhaps $600m/year might be considered a tad excessive for an unqualified sibling. But hey, who am I to judge?

 

[Phatguysrule]

One might argue that while 300K might be a reasonable annual estate management fee for a legitimate CPA firm, perhaps $600m/year might be considered a tad excessive for an unqualified sibling. But hey, who am I to judge?

Paul is dead. Who is there to argue?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Paul is dead. Who is there to argue?

Not quite the connotation of "argue" that I was intending. Replace that with "suggest", "venture", "opine", or "posit" if you'd prefer.

 

[wizenheimer]

One might argue that while 300K might be a reasonable annual estate management fee for a legitimate CPA firm, perhaps $600m/year might be considered a tad excessive for an unqualified sibling. But hey, who am I to judge?

by the way, my brother was appointed executor by the Will and, IIRC, the fee was set by the probate court

as for Jody Allen, I would be pretty certain there is a large staff of people as part of her management organization. And whether it's Charles Schwab or Fidelity, if an elite brokerage is managing the portfolio of a millionaire/billionaire the fee will be in the 1-2% range. And that is just money management (and the brokerage will have all sorts of clever ways to leverage more fees). An executor, like JA, would have the responsibility of managing money, real estate including commercial property, yachts, various business corporations and partnerships, professional sports teams, airplanes, art, collectibles, etc. A 20 billion estate like PA's is going to be pretty complicated

by the way, in 2019, Vulcan Management had 700 employees. They were in the process of downsizing and converting into the Vale Group. That company currently has 337 employees

https://www.linkedin.com/company/vale-group-llc

what percentage of their business is part of the estate I don't know. I'd imagine quite a bit of it

obviously, I could be off in my guesses, but I think people might be underestimating the complexity of managing the estate and the scope of the fees. If it's a 300-600M fee, 30-50M of that, at minimum, would be consumed by employees and infrastructure involved in the management.

 

[RR7]

she's gettng paid. The link to PA's will and estate plan was posted here a while back. In the will, she is named the executor and the will explicitly says a "reasonable" management fee for the executor will be paid

as for the fee itself, the actual percentage is unknown, and again what i a "reasonable" fee is very vague. But there is this:

View attachment 64495

my half-brother (CPA) was the executor of a family estate in Colorado value around 12M. It took a little over 3 years to settle the estate and his fee (for him and his firm) was 2.75% annually.

If I'm reading it correctly, from your link, that 2.5-3% is not an annual fee. It is the total compensation for the executor. Which makes far more sense. And would give her little to no reason to hold on to the Blazers just to pocket all that executor money.

When Do Executors Get Paid?
The process of settling an estate can be lengthy, and executors may wonder when they will receive compensation for their work. In Washington, executors are typically paid before beneficiaries receive their inheritances, but the timing can vary.

Generally, executors receive their fees once they have completed most of their duties, which often includes tasks like settling debts, paying taxes, maintaining properties, and distributing assets to beneficiaries.

However, before the executor's fee is paid, it must be approved by the probate court. This involves the executor submitting a detailed account of their time and expenses, which the court reviews to determine if the requested fee is 'reasonable.' Once the court approves the fee, the executor can then pay themselves from the estate's assets.

Remember, the probate process can take several months to over a year, depending on the complexity of the estate. Therefore, executors should be prepared for the possibility that their compensation may not be immediate. Consulting with an estate planning attorney can help you understand the specific timeline and processes involved in your situation.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Not quite the connotation of "argue" that I was intending. Replace that with "suggest", "venture", "opine", or "posit" if you'd prefer.

And I get that, but my point is that nobody is probably going to push back as long as she doesn't charge over the 5% that Washington says is reasonable and typical... It doesn't matter to anybody as far as I can tell.

 

[wizenheimer]

If I'm reading it correctly, from your link, that 2.5-3% is not an annual fee. It is the total compensation for the executor. Which makes far more sense. And would give her little to no reason to hold on to the Blazers just to pocket all that executor money.

that may be correct

but there are also provisions for expenses accrued by management. If the estate takes 15-20 years to settle in full, all those employees of JA's management firm (which is apparently now the Vale Group) haven't been working on spec, and I'd be pretty sure JA isn't paying them out of pocket

I'd guess if the Vale Group is submitting expense claims to the probate court, and the claims approved, JA is getting her share since she is a co-founder and chairman

it could be that the fee is 2-5% of 20B, plus annual expenses until the estate is fully converted

 

[kjironman1]

She has to sell by 2028? That's great news. Has that been confirmed?

No it has not but It's a great theory.

 

[HailBlazers]

One might argue that while 300K might be a reasonable annual estate management fee for a legitimate CPA firm, perhaps $600m/year might be considered a tad excessive for an unqualified sibling. But hey, who am I to judge?

Not a family man apparently. PA already gives more than anyone to charity.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Not a family man apparently. PA already gives more than anyone to charity.

PA hasn't given anything to anyone for about 5 1/2 years now...

 

[RR7]

that may be correct

but there are also provisions for expenses accrued by management. If the estate takes 15-20 years to settle in full, all those employees of JA's management firm (which is apparently now the Vale Group) haven't been working on spec, and I'd be pretty sure JA isn't paying them out of pocket

I'd guess if the Vale Group is submitting expense claims to the probate court, and the claims approved, JA is getting her share since she is a co-founder and chairman

it could be that the fee is 2-5% of 20B, plus annual expenses until the estate is fully converted

Sure, so she's paying people to manage his estate, covered by the estate. Which makes sense.
But this talk that she's getting 2-3% PER YEAR has always seemed a little ridiculous to me.

Happy to say I was wrong if it is ever shown to be the case.

But saying it could take 10-20 years, the thought that out of a 20 billion dollar estate, in 2o years of "closing it", she'd pocket 12 billion of that is a little ridiculous to me.

And if it is just a flat percentage, and then management fees, there's not this 90-150 million dollar PER YEAR reason for Jody to not sell that Canzano claimed.

 

[wizenheimer]

Sure, so she's paying people to manage his estate, covered by the estate. Which makes sense.
But this talk that she's getting 2-3% PER YEAR has always seemed a little ridiculous to me.

Happy to say I was wrong if it is ever shown to be the case.

But saying it could take 10-20 years, the thought that out of a 20 billion dollar estate, in 2o years of "closing it", she'd pocket 12 billion of that is a little ridiculous to me.

And if it is just a flat percentage, and then management fees, there's not this 90-150 million dollar PER YEAR reason for Jody to not sell that Canzano claimed.

yeah, that's fair and a 12B fee is ridiculous

but that doesn't mean JA has no reasons to slow-walk the process

here's a for instance: PA's art collection was sold for 1.5B. The article I read said that the sale price(s) really surprised a lot of people. That leads into estate valuation. The articles I read generally seemed to indicate that the executor had to supply an estimated appraisal of the estate value in a reasonable amount of time...like 3 to 6 months. OK. If that appraisal pegged the value of the collection at 700M in 2018. And 4 years later that collection sold for 1.5B, what is JA's fee based upon? the 700M or the 1.5B? My expectation would be the higher amount.

if a commercial property is appraised at 1M and it sells for 2M, then the market value of the property is set 2M and that's the basis for tax and depreciation. Which illustrates that maybe JA was playing the game to her advantage by waiting 4 years for the sale of the art

which leads into the Blazers. When PA died in 2018 the value of the Blazers was 1.3B

https://www.forbes.com/pictures/5a73949c31358e4955ac5752/16-portland-trail-blazers/?sh=30ceef5d3d13

the value of the Blazers last October was 3.08B. It may be over that currently, I don't know. But that points to a 1.8B gulf between when PA died and now. If JA's fee is 4% (most complicated trust in Washington history), then her fee at 1.3B would be 52M and her fee for 3.1B would be 124M. If that's how the fee is calculated, that kind of asset appreciation is plenty of incentive to slow the liquidation

 

[Duckhook]

by the way, my brother was appointed executor by the Will and, IIRC, the fee was set by the probate court

as for Jody Allen, I would be pretty certain there is a large staff of people as part of her management organization. And whether it's Charles Schwab or Fidelity, if an elite brokerage is managing the portfolio of a millionaire/billionaire the fee will be in the 1-2% range. And that is just money management (and the brokerage will have all sorts of clever ways to leverage more fees). An executor, like JA, would have the responsibility of managing money, real estate including commercial property, yachts, various business corporations and partnerships, professional sports teams, airplanes, art, collectibles, etc. A 20 billion estate like PA's is going to be pretty complicated

by the way, in 2019, Vulcan Management had 700 employees. They were in the process of downsizing and converting into the Vale Group. That company currently has 337 employees

https://www.linkedin.com/company/vale-group-llc

what percentage of their business is part of the estate I don't know. I'd imagine quite a bit of it

obviously, I could be off in my guesses, but I think people might be underestimating the complexity of managing the estate and the scope of the fees. If it's a 300-600M fee, 30-50M of that, at minimum, would be consumed by employees and infrastructure involved in the management.

I wonder how much Jody's handlers are getting paid to make sure she keeps her hands off male employees?

 

[barfo]

PA hasn't given anything to anyone for about 5 1/2 years now...

"Worms are people, my friend"

-Mitt Romney