Stepan elects salary arbitration

[chuckd3534]

AGAIN though, you play the games. All is not lost. When you have the D we have and Hank in goal you damn sure have a shot to win a lot of games...so stop with the nonsense that anyone is saying we are done for.

But AGAIN that doesn't change the reality that we aren't as good and the Caps and BJ's are better. That's just being honest.

Now maybe Etem comes in and does better than Hags, and Miller/CK/Hayes all take huge strides forward, and Fast takes a nice jump also and we are better, certainly can happen, but that's what we need sort of an inside straight.

 

[chuckd3534]

To me I cannot be held a slave to Stepan. I would budget tops 6.3 for him, and if I cannot get it done for that I would deal him.

He is not even worth that IMO. I have always felt 6 mill +/- is fair for Step, but would go a little higher to lock him up long term. Meaning 6.2 or 6.3 per tops. If he wants a lot more, maybe I would push to 6.5 100% MAX, deal him.

That's all we can do IMO.

 

[SaveLundy]

I have to agree with Mess here chuck, you cant say on paper we are worse or better.

Personally i think Saad on columbus isnt going to be as successful as he was in chicago, he doesnt create his own offense he relied of others to open up the ice and he drove the net. Washington got oshie but hes no physical presence at all, hes all skill, had they got Lucic i'd be worried.

The moves we made arent sexy or all that great, but what it does is create is competition with having young players most on contracts they are going to be playing hard to get to a larger sum of money and term. I'd rather have guys looking to earn they next contract in their early 20's then a 33 year old williams or ward. Plus if some of the players we have arent working out we could always package them together and try to land a piece that works better for us.

The Rangers already made one major upgrade to their offense by replacing Hagelin with Etem. Hagelin has never had any finishing skills. Etem was completely used wrong by the Ducks who have been a one line team forever offensively.

I disagree with this opinion that Etem is a "Major upgrade" to Hagelin. I do believe we saw Hagelins ceiling but Etem is an unknown who only has potential at this moment in time, I do like the different set of skills and abilities he brings to the table but hes a complete unknown.

Stalberg, who i wanted them to trade for at the deadline, is a great pick up and even better having been bought out by Nashville. His size and speed are going to fit in nice, hopefully he puts in the effort hes capable of.

 

[chuckd3534]

Question for you Mess...what is your plan on D? We have 8 dmen. Klein, Diaz, McIlrath all righties. What do you do there?

Cannot send Mac down. Did we sign Diaz to a one-way deal just to have him in HRT (doubt he comes here if that was the plan).

So what is the plan on D?

 

[Messiah717]

Question for you Mess...what is your plan on D? We have 8 dmen. Klein, Diaz, McIlrath all righties. What do you do there?

Cannot send Mac down. Did we sign Diaz to a one-way deal just to have him in HRT (doubt he comes here if that was the plan).

So what is the plan on D?

Somebody will be moved once they work their contracts out. That's the only place this forward everybody wants is going to come from. Plus, if they want anyone who's really going to help the deal will need to be made sweeter with somebody else as well.

 

[chuckd3534]

Look at what you just said right there 71. You cannot say we are better or worse. BUT you can say Saad won't be as good in CBJ? The Caps get Oshie and Williams but they may not be better. But we are not better or worse...Ranger colored glasses at their finest...LOL.

No one knows what will happen on the ice, we can all 100000000000% agree on that. Drop the puck and play and we can beat or lose to any team.

But as we sit here today if we are being honest and fair hard to say the Caps and BJ's aren't improved (the BJ's will be much improved simply by not having 8778867985997857859800 injuries again) and we aren't best case the same or more likely worse.

From there drop the puck and play.

 

[chuckd3534]

And that's exactly what Prod and I have been pushing for a while now Mess. We agree there for sure.

 

[SaveLundy]

Look at what you just said right there 71. You cannot say we are better or worse. BUT you can say Saad won't be as good in CBJ? The Caps get Oshie and Williams but they may not be better. But we are not better or worse...Ranger colored glasses at their finest...LOL.

No one knows what will happen on the ice, we can all 100000000000% agree on that. Drop the puck and play and we can beat or lose to any team.

But as we sit here today if we are being honest and fair hard to say the Caps and BJ's aren't improved (the BJ's will be much improved simply by not having 8778867985997857859800 injuries again) and we aren't best case the same or more likely worse.

From there drop the puck and play.

I said it not 71.

The reason i said you " cant say we are better or worse on paper" is cause games arent played on paper.

And just cause a team traded for a Kessel or an Oshie and williams or a Saad. DOESNT MAKE THEM BETTER. You want to believe they are better but you never know whats going to happen with locker room chemistry, injuries etc. 1 player or 2 players doenst mean anything teams get "better talents" and do worse and vice versa.

 

[theProdigy223]

Well Messiah, since you asked...

Really not sure how this became so exaggerated and over the top. To me, this offseason didnt need to be complicated or significant. Even with Hayes, Kreider, Miller and Fast all improving, which I think and expect will happen, I think we could also use a right-shot forward who has experience playing in the top 6, is a shoot-first player and can help on the powerplay. Most of our forwards right now are pass-first players. Hagelin, of all players, was second last year to Nash in shots/60. We need to improve in that area.

The way this team is constructed we have the most expensive goalie in the league and now with Staal's extension and Yandle's full 2.6m hit on the books (he was pro-rated last year), we also have the most expensive d-core. Our third d-pair is Yandle-Klein. That is just too expensive and one should move. Yandle brings an elite skillset that this team hasnt had in a long time. Klein, although extremely solid, is easier to replace. In fact, the organization has said that we have a player in Hartford who is ready and that plays the right side. We also signed Diaz, who plays the right side.

With Klein (and Glass) traded for cap space we could have afforded Justin Williams on the contract he got (which was a great deal). Now that he's gone, a player like Alex Semin on a one year deal would be amazing. Ive said I'm not crazy about him, but we all rave about the leadership on this team and I dont see them letting him dog it. We also havent had a guy with his shot on this team since Gaborik. Hes a snipe artist with one of the best shots in the game whenn he's on. We currently have nobody with the exception of Nash who can beat a goalie from the circle with any sort of consistency. In fact, we were 4th out of 4 on goals scored from outside the circle in the playoffs, out of the 4 teams in the conference finals. All this talk about *going to the net* wasnt exactly the problem when you look at where our goals came from. A large part of the struggle was that this team does not have many good shooters. Get a good shooter on the ice and more space opens up. Brad Boyes is another right handed shooter who is still available for cheap. Guys are available to fill this role.

Klein and Glass out. Never would have signed Stalberg. Lindberg up, McIlrath and Diaz fight for 6th D with loser as 7th. If it doesnt work, find a guy at the trade deadline to play 6th D.

Nash-Brassard-Zucc
Kreider-Stepan-Semin (ideally Williams, maybe Boyes)
Miller-Hayes-Etem
Lindberg-Moore-Fast

McD-Girardi
Staal-Boyle
Yandle-McIlrath/Diaz/Deadline pickup

I think that is a very reasonable and very attainable way to improve the team while also counting on the young guys to improve. Not saying "blow it up", not saying "this team is terrible", not saying "our young guys wont improve." But that team is better than the team we currently have, so why not go out and make it happen?

 

[Messiah717]

Well Messiah, since you asked...

Really not sure how this became so exaggerated and over the top. To me, this offseason didnt need to be complicated or significant. Even with Hayes, Kreider, Miller and Fast all improving, which I think and expect will happen, I think we could also use a right-shot forward who has experience playing in the top 6, is a shoot-first player and can help on the powerplay. Most of our forwards right now are pass-first players. Hagelin, of all players, was second last year to Nash in shots/60. We need to improve in that area.

The way this team is constructed we have the most expensive goalie in the league and now with Staal's extension and Yandle's full 2.6m hit on the books (he was pro-rated last year), we also have the most expensive d-core. Our third d-pair is Yandle-Klein. That is just too expensive and one should move. Yandle brings an elite skillset that this team hasnt had in a long time. Klein, although extremely solid, is easier to replace. In fact, the organization has said that we have a player in Hartford who is ready and that plays the right side. We also signed Diaz, who plays the right side.

With Klein (and Glass) traded for cap space we could have afforded Justin Williams on the contract he got (which was a great deal). Now that he's gone, a player like Alex Semin on a one year deal would be amazing. Ive said I'm not crazy about him, but we all rave about the leadership on this team and I dont see them letting him dog it. We also havent had a guy with his shot on this team since Gaborik. Hes a snipe artist with one of the best shots in the game whenn he's on. We currently have nobody with the exception of Nash who can beat a goalie from the circle with any sort of consistency. In fact, we were 4th out of 4 on goals scored from outside the circle in the playoffs, out of the 4 teams in the conference finals. All this talk about *going to the net* wasnt exactly the problem when you look at where our goals came from. A large part of the struggle was that this team does not have many good shooters. Get a good shooter on the ice and more space opens up. Brad Boyes is another right handed shooter who is still available for cheap. Guys are available to fill this role.

Klein and Glass out. Never would have signed Stalberg. Lindberg up, McIlrath and Diaz fight for 6th D with loser as 7th. If it doesnt work, find a guy at the trade deadline to play 6th D.

Nash-Brassard-Zucc
Kreider-Stepan-Semin (ideally Williams, maybe Boyes)
Miller-Hayes-Etem
Lindberg-Moore-Fast

McD-Girardi
Staal-Boyle
Yandle-McIlrath/Diaz/Deadline pickup

I think that is a very reasonable and very attainable way to improve the team while also counting on the young guys to improve. Not saying "blow it up", not saying "this team is terrible", not saying "our young guys wont improve." But that team is better than the team we currently have, so why not go out and make it happen?

This would be a reasonable plan.

 

[chuckd3534]

I said it not 71.

The reason i said you " cant say we are better or worse on paper" is cause games arent played on paper.

And just cause a team traded for a Kessel or an Oshie and williams or a Saad. DOESNT MAKE THEM BETTER. You want to believe they are better but you never know whats going to happen with locker room chemistry, injuries etc. 1 player or 2 players doenst mean anything teams get "better talents" and do worse and vice versa.

And that's where we 100% disagree Lundy. Agree to disagree on that one. I can say a team is better or worse. That is what this whole offseason is about. Go look at what the reporters do, that is their job in the offseason. And they all say they are both better and we are worse.

So 100% you can say it.

Now what you should be saying is yeah the BJ's and the Caps look better, but we need to play the games to see how it actually goes down. And there we 10000000000% agree. You don't play games on paper, you play them on the ice. So we agree it still needs to be proven for sure on the ice.

But the reality is the Caps and BJ's have gotten better this summer. We have gotten worse this summer. That's the way it is today. When they start playing games we'll see if it holds true on the ice.

It is also funny to see you say you cannot say if we are better or worse, then go on to say I don't think Saad will do well in CBJ. I do think Oshie makes the Caps better (I guess Williams doesn't count). I 100% respect your Ranger colored glasses on that opinion, but 99% of objective people who cover the sport believe those teams are better and we are worse. Maybe that won't prove to be true on the ice, but based on the moves this summer that is a logical statement to make today IMO.

 

[chuckd3534]

Well said Prod. For a month now I have been saying we need a top 6 R shot. That isn't over the top or saying we are F'd. I think we are all on the same page now Mess....

 

[theProdigy223]

This would be a reasonable plan.

Thanks, and that's why I get frustrated when they dont address what to me, and many others, is a weakness right now. It doesnt have to be what I proposed, but something along those lines is what they should be doing. Perhaps my frustration comes across as doom and gloom, and if that's the case I apologize. But when there's a reasonable way to improve the team and the front office sits on their hands and says "na we're good the way we are", it gets me fired up.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't like him, but at this point Semin is a guy I would take a look at for cheap. He does have a lot of what we need, and for 1.5 mill or so, why not take the chance. That is why I think the Ducks getting Stewart for 1.7 is a steal. I would have done that in a second...he would have been a good add at that #.

 

[Ranger71]

Nobody's mentioning my Tlusty as a winger plan. I agree Semin might be worth a year as a reclamation project if it's less than 3m.

 

[chuckd3534]

I also agree with you Mess that Step's situation is holding us hostage at the moment. I get it, but I stand by what I said no way I give him more than 6.5 tops, and it would have to be a 5 or 6 year deal at that #.

If he wants more I respect his right to ask for it, but I would deal him. He is not a 7 mill player. Here are the forwards who make 6.8 or more per season:

Perry, Getzlaf, Krejci, Bergeron (6.875), ROR starting next season (joke), Staal, Kane, Toews, Spezza, Datsyuk, Kopitar (6.8), Parise, Nash, Ryan, Giroux, Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, Tarasenko, Stastny, Stamkos, Sedin's, Ovie.

So 24 forwards with a cap hit of 6.8 or more. On this list who is Stepan better than?

ROR for sure. Maybe Stastny, but Stas has 78, 71, and 79 point seasons AND has scored 20 goals 6 times. Step has 21 goals once and never scored even 58 points in a season. Senko just had 37 goals and 73 points. Spezza has 62 and 66 points the past two seasons, Step never more than 57 in a season. Maybe Ryan, although he is a 4 time 30 goal scorer.

So ROR, which we all know was a crazy contract and Ryan. Spezza looking forward I rather have Step, but Spezza has had seasons the past two years Step never has.

Now I know this isn't 100% apples to apples due to timing and UFA status, but the point is to me Step is not a 7 mill player. 6.5 is pushing it, but I would bite that bullet on a 5 or 6 year deal. Anything more than that I would deal him.

 

[chuckd3534]

I wouldn't go more than 1.5 +/- on Semin...3 mill is way too much. Stewart just signed for 1.7 mill, why would I need to give Semin more. 1.5 take it or leave it is what I would offer him.

 

[theProdigy223]

Nobody's mentioning my Tlusty as a winger plan. I agree Semin might be worth a year as a reclamation project if it's less than 3m.

Tlusty wouldnt be bad, but hes another left shot who (i dont believe) has much experience playing his off wing. Id really like to get a righty in here, Fast is the only right handed winger we have. Boyes and Semin are the two guys left I'd look at after Stewart and Williams signed

 

[Messiah717]

They need to make a fair offer and try to get this thing done already. Dragging it out helps nobody. Offer six years at $36 million, have them counter at $42 million and compromise at $39 million.

 

[chuckd3534]

Boyes had 14 goals this past season, not terrible. I think I would actually rather have Semin because I think you are looking for upside and lightning in a bottle at this point, and I believe Semin has more upside than Boyes to maybe score 20 + if he is mentally right. Plus he is a PP shooter, which we need badly.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree Mess...that is how I would play it also. If it came down to it settle at 6/39 which is a 6.5 AAV.

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Semin has size, he's 6'2 210 but of course he doesn't use it (see the Staal fight). I'm warming up to the use is signing him because he was once a consistent 30+ goal scorer. However, he was horrible last season

 

[Pastafazul]

don't let the door hit you in the Azz on your way out, this kid has an extrememly high opinion of himself, guess it works for some

maybe if you played the game consistently you mite be worth it, key word is consistent!

 

[kreidertime]

Semin is a piece of crap. Want nothing to do with him. He's a lazy dog and his teammates hate him. You don't bring a disease like that on your team.

 

[theProdigy223]

Semin is a piece of crap. Want nothing to do with him. He's a lazy dog and his teammates hate him. You don't bring a disease like that on your team.

Id like to see him play on a team that doesnt have a lazy, immature Russian as a captain before passing final judgment. Ovechkin in those days was a complete enabler to his behavior, and we could do a lot worse for 1 year, 1.5m.

 

[vroppelt]

Id like to see him play on a team that doesnt have a lazy, immature Russian as a captain before passing final judgment. Ovechkin in those days was a complete enabler to his behavior, and we could do a lot worse for 1 year, 1.5m.

I agree, maybe on a two way contract so we can dump him if he doesn't work out. Guy could put up 30 if he has something to prove....

I'm surprised that there isn't more talk abut him going to the KHL though...

 

[strudwickisthebest]

He's in his 30's now. Has a ton of NHL experience, played well at times in the playoffs. If he can't buck up and act like a professional then no team should sign him... He's a goal scorer so he wouldn't be a risk at a 1-year deal