Steph Is Not Untouchable

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It appears no coincidence that at the same time Knicks president Isiah Thomas said Thursday he was pursuing Phil Jackson, he let it out that Stephon Marbury could be available "in the right deal."

The untouchable status is off Marbury. It will be interesting to see if Thomas offers Marbury in a sign-and-trade deal for free-agent center Zydrunas Ilgauskas or unhappy Wally Szczerbiak. They are the kind of dominant low-post center and athletic, long wing players Thomas is craving. </div>
New York Post
Thank you Isiah. While I am a big fan of Marbury, I'm not sure the status of Marbury and the future of the Knicks. It hasn't been working out well and it's nice to see Isiah is really trying to make things better and not allow personal feelings to affect him in his job, If the Knicks can get a Marbury/Bogut deal, I'd be very happy. If they can get a Marbury 3 first round picks deal, I'd be happy. If they can get a Marbury Green deal, I'd be happy too! I don't want a Wally/Steph or Ilgauskas deal. I'd rather go younger and receive something in return for Marbury.

 

[Moo2K4]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">New York Post
Thank you Isiah. While I am a big fan of Marbury, I'm not sure the status of Marbury and the future of the Knicks. It hasn't been working out well and it's nice to see Isiah is really trying to make things better and not allow personal feelings to affect him in his job, If the Knicks can get a Marbury/Bogut deal, I'd be very happy. If they can get a Marbury 3 first round picks deal, I'd be happy. If they can get a Marbury Green deal, I'd be happy too! I don't want a Wally/Steph or Ilgauskas deal. I'd rather go younger and receive something in return for Marbury.</div>

Explain to me as to how you would manage to get Bogut? The Hawks aren't dumb enough to give up that first pick overall (assuming they get it) for someone who hasn't helped a team win much of anything his entire career in Stephon Marbury.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Explain to me as to how you would manage to get Bogut? The Hawks aren't dumb enough to give up that first pick overall (assuming they get it) for someone who hasn't helped a team win much of anything his entire career in Stephon Marbury.</div>
I think a Marbury plus our potential 8th pick maybe our other pick and someone else (say Sweetney) can help? The Hawks are in complete off the map and Marbury might help them win more than 13 games. I don't know if it can work out cap wise, but if it can, I think it is definitely something to look at for the Hawks. If anything the Knicks are giving up way too much!

 

[Got DWade?]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think a Marbury plus our potential 8th pick maybe our other pick and someone else (say Sweetney) can help? The Hawks are in complete off the map and Marbury might help them win more than 13 games. I don't know if it can work out cap wise, but if it can, I think it is definitely something to look at for the Hawks. If anything the Knicks are giving up way too much!</div>

lmfao for bogut, I highly doubt that the gm of a team like the hawks, who have no need for a player like marbury would trade bogut for starbury+the fat guy...

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">lmfao for bogut, I highly doubt that the gm of a team like the hawks, who have no need for a player like marbury would trade bogut for starbury+the fat guy...</div>
I was expecting a low-quality post sooner or later...

Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple.

 

[Moo2K4]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I think a Marbury plus our potential 8th pick maybe our other pick and someone else (say Sweetney) can help? The Hawks are in complete off the map and Marbury might help them win more than 13 games. I don't know if it can work out cap wise, but if it can, I think it is definitely something to look at for the Hawks. If anything the Knicks are giving up way too much!</div>

I still don't understand why the Hawks would want to do this. It wouldn't make sense. By bringing him in, they bring in a selfish point guard who has never won much of anything his entire career. By doing that, it can only hamper the development of Smith, Childress, and what will likely be Bogut. Beyond that, Bogut is the thing this team needs. They don't need an aging, selfish, and overpaid point guard. And by the time the 8th pick rolls around, the guys they'd likely need aside from Bogut, being Paul and Williams, will also likely be gone. To me, trading down just to get Marbury does them no good. Plus, imagine the cap problems they could have when they need to resign their young guys (assuming his contract or potential stay for Atl would last that long). It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">I still don't understand why the Hawks would want to do this. It wouldn't make sense. By bringing him in, they bring in a selfish point guard who has never won much of anything his entire career. By doing that, it can only hamper the development of Smith, Childress, and what will likely be Bogut. Beyond that, Bogut is the thing this team needs. They don't need an aging, selfish, and overpaid point guard. And by the time the 8th pick rolls around, the guys they'd likely need aside from Bogut, being Paul and Williams, will also likely be gone. To me, trading down just to get Marbury does them no good. Plus, imagine the cap problems they could have when they need to resign their young guys (assuming his contract or potential stay for Atl would last that long). It just doesn't make any sense to me.</div>
Marbury is less selfish than what people give him credit for. Him getting 8 assists per game shouldn't be taken for granted. Well some players such as KG (until recently), McGrady, Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Big Z (and the list goes on) have not won anything either. Again Marbury being selfish is overrated, and I don't really think he is really overpaid. Either way, Marbury will give the Hawks a better record. Marbury, Sweetney, the 8th, and 30th pick will not help the Hawks out? I don't understand that. They can become instant contenders with that move. Also when Smith and Childress become free agents, Marbury's contract expires.

 

[Got DWade?]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I was expecting a low-quality post sooner or later...

Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple.</div>

I am in fear of your incredibly high-quality posting and logic, typical NY fan

Bogut is a young talent, you can't teach size, and he already has exceptional skills for a center, and basketball IQ, the only real downside is his mobility, which can be ignored because of his skills. He IS exactly what the hawks need, young talent. Let's look at what is offered; Marbury, an aging, overrated, and selfish player. You say that marbury isn't as selfish as most people...but the amount of assists he gets is a testiment as to how much he has the ball...but in essence he is really a lot less selfish then most people make him out to be. However, the main downside for Marbury, IMO, is that he is way to old for the hawks, they need young guys, they're far away from the playoffs, why do they need a vet like marbury to run the team.

Now let's look at Sweetney, people have argued that bogut is a bad fit for the hawks because of his speed/mobility, well sweetney is in horrible shape, he could never keep up with an up-tempo pace, and he doesn't have the sive like bogut has. Let's go to the pick, you can't possibly compare a first pick to the 8th pick, basically something like Bogut vs. Green.

So, the only thing that the Hawks get out of the deal is Marbury, but do you really see a need for marbury, they need young guys, not vetrans. Even if the deal did go down, not mention his contract which goes through 2008-09.

I forgot to add, do you care to explain the incredibly high-quality statement of:

"Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple."

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">I am in fear of your incredibly high-quality posting and logic, typical NY fan

</div>
I never mentioned anything about me being a better poster than you. You assumed I did. Moo2K4 brought some nice points, you said he won't trade for Starbury and the fat guy. I don't think there's outstanding quality in that one sentence, do you honestly think so? Canadian fan

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bogut is a young talent, you can't teach size, and he already has exceptional skills for a center, and basketball IQ, the only real downside is his mobility, which can be ignored because of his skills. He IS exactly what the hawks need, young talent. Let's look at what is offered; Marbury, an aging, overrated, and selfish player. You say that marbury isn't as selfish as most people...but the amount of assists he gets is a testiment as to how much he has the ball...but in essence he is really a lot less selfish then most people make him out to be. However, the main downside for Marbury, IMO, is that he is way to old for the hawks, they need young guys, they're far away from the playoffs, why do they need a vet like marbury to run the team.</div>
Marbury makes his teammates better too. Maybe not like John Stockton, but many of the times he does make his teammates better. This season Marbury has been distributing the ball more than ever this season. Marbury is 28, please stop acting as if he is on the verge of retiring. How ever you cut the cake, it all boils down to Marbury will give you 20 points 8 assists a night. He breaks down defense which gives everyone on the team good looks. Why do they need veterans? Every team should have a veteran.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
Now let's look at Sweetney, people have argued that bogut is a bad fit for the hawks because of his speed/mobility, well sweetney is in horrible shape, he could never keep up with an up-tempo pace, and he doesn't have the sive like bogut has. Let's go to the pick, you can't possibly compare a first pick to the 8th pick, basically something like Bogut vs. Green.
</div>
Sweetney is not in horrible shape. He can and has been running the floor for the Knicks. If he was in horrible shape, why would he even be in the NBA? The Hawks don't need a completely uptempo style. They already have 4 players who can already run the floor well for them in Smith, Childress, Harrington, and Lue. Also even if you did think Sweetney was in horrible shape, he has 6 months to get into good shape. Ever thought about that? Sweetney can serve as a very legit post up threat for them. He averages 8 and 5 in 19 minutes, and in 30 minutes, he averages 16 points and 9 rebounds. He will be a very good player in the league. And Green, he's projected to be the next Tracy McGrady! He has a bigger upside than Bogut and can help put this team on the map.
So let's think about this:
PG: Marbury
SG: Childress
SF: Smith
PF: Harrington
C: Drobnjak

Bench:
Sweetney
Green
Lue

That team is more improved in every aspect than just Bogut. Also let?s not forget a potential role player with the 30th pick in the draft. That move is not a completely horrible trade at all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So, the only thing that the Hawks get out of the deal is Marbury, but do you really see a need for marbury, they need young guys, not vetrans. Even if the deal did go down, do you really see marbury wanting to stay with a team like the hawks...</div>

Did you read my post? The only thing is Marbury? What about Sweetney, a possible Gerald Green, and the 30th pick? Did you forget about those?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I forgot to add, do you care to explain the incredibly high-quality statement of:

"Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple."</div>
Marbury, Sweetney, a potential Green, and the 30th pick in the draft will be better than Andrew Bogut.
Let's say Marbury puts up 20 points 8 assists
Sweetney puts up 8 points 5 rebounds
Green puts up 6 points 3 rebounds
the 30th pick puts up 4 points and 1 rebound.
Overall you have at least 38 points 9 rebounds and 8 assists. Let's say Bogut puts up 17/8/3. Who gets the better deal? Even if Marbury declines, you still have the potential McGrady, Sweetney a work horse and the 30th pick. When it's all said and done, all three of them combined will be better than just one Andrew Bogut.

 

[Beat]

I think we should keep Marbury. Maybe not build around him but he should be a core player. Really what we need is a center who can rebound and play good D' and a sg who can shoot. If green turns out to be at least a Joe Johnson type player and we get a good center I think we could be title contenders easily.

 

[Got DWade?]

*sigh* Here we go. Silly <u>New York</u> fan

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was expecting a low-quality post sooner or later... Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple. </div>

K, with my "the fat guy" quote, it was a joke, because he is overweight, and not in a good way like shaq was/is. I did not assume anything, you clearly implied that I just made a low-quality post, which I disagree with, but hell who cares. I did not assume that you said you were a better poster then me, you said I made a low-quality post, which I responded to by saying your post was well...also suspect/low-quality.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury makes his teammates better too. Maybe not like John Stockton, but many of the times he does make his teammates better. This season Marbury has been distributing the ball more than ever this season. Marbury is 28, please stop acting as if he is on the verge of retiring. How ever you cut the cake, it all boils down to Marbury will give you 20 points 8 assists a night. He breaks down defense which gives everyone on the team good looks. Why do they need veterans? Every team should have a veteran.</div>

You're right, he does make his team better with his assists, but not nearly on an exceptional high level like some PG's (*cough* kidd). He's 28, he's past his prime, he's not going to get any better..whilst compared to bogut where the sky is the limit. And do they really need a very pricey vet like starbury... hell if you want a vet resign Kevin Willis. The hawks are a long away from the playoffs, plus his contract still has 4 or 3 years (I think), even with your roster of:

PG: Marbury
SG: Childress
SF: Smith
PF: Harrington
C: Drobnjak

Sure, it's a better roster then they would have if they drafted Bogut, but in the long run, would you rather have a deteriorating PG in marbury, the incredibly raw green who will take a long while to really contribute to any team, and the overweight and under sized sweetney, or the rising star, and potential of Bogut. Like I said, you can't teach size, and bogut already combines that with a high basketball IQ (which is really rare in 7 footers) and already has the skill to contribute, simply he has an amazing overall game and is still very young.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney is not in horrible shape. He can and has been running the floor for the Knicks. If he was in horrible shape, why would he even be in the NBA? The Hawks don't need a completely uptempo style. They already have 4 players who can already run the floor well for them in Smith, Childress, Harrington, and Lue. Also even if you did think Sweetney was in horrible shape, he has 6 months to get into good shape. Ever thought about that? Sweetney can serve as a very legit post up threat for them. He averages 8 and 5 in 19 minutes, and in 30 minutes, he averages 16 points and 9 rebounds. He will be a very good player in the league. And Green, he's projected to be the next Tracy McGrady! He has a bigger upside than Bogut and can help put this team on the map. </div>

All I have to say to this...is everything I said above...sweetney is overweight and IS in bad shape comparing to basically any other PF in the leage you cannot deny that, although he will be given the oppurtunity during the off season to change, green is incredibly raw, out of highschool, he'll take a long while to turn into anything like T-Mac, also he needs to work on his upperbody, he just doesn't have a NBA body right now, he will turn into a great NBA all-star...but it will take a lot of development for that to happen.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you read my post? The only thing is Marbury? What about Sweetney, a possible Gerald Green, and the 30th pick? Did you forget about those?</div>

What I meant by that is the only real servicable thing the hawks would bet is marbury, I don't think they need a fat power-forward in sweetney, a raw gerald green, and the LAST thing they need is ANOTHER role player via the 30th pick.

Meh, typical NY fans.

 

[bbwAce]

It doesnt matter, yall wouldnt get much for Marbury in return...hes a nice talent, but hes not a winner or leader...You might get two decent players for him, but who would actually want him, except for maybe a lower-tier team such as Atlanta or New orleans...hes never won in any of his stops (Minny, NJ, Phoenix or NY) and his career has been pretty much about numbers...yes, averages of 21 and 8 are nice, but if that doesnt produce into victories, then it doesnt matter...bottom line, trading marbury wont necessarily solve the Knicks' problems...the Knicks' problem is that they have way too many undersized posts and too many guards who are only really skilled in one area, which is scoring (Marbury, Crawford and Houston)...frankly, they're a mess, but I believe that Sweetney, Ariza, Marbury and Crawford MAY be a nice core to atleast start with...Thomas, Mo Taylor, Malik Rose should all be packaged one way or another for a suitable big man...

 

[crazyrussianz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">lmfao for bogut, I highly doubt that the gm of a team like the hawks, who have no need for a player like marbury would trade bogut for starbury+the fat guy...</div>

Do you have something against fat people, no.1 he can defend alot of centers or PFs and hes a great low post player, so please b4 u judge him by his looks look how he plays, ok!

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">K, with my "the fat guy" quote, it was a joke, because he is overweight, and not in a good way like shaq was/is. I did not assume anything, you clearly implied that I just made a low-quality post, which I disagree with, but hell who cares. I did not assume that you said you were a better poster then me, you said I made a low-quality post, which I responded to by saying your post was well...also suspect/low-quality.
</div>
Well I added facts and substance instead of saying "the fat guy." There's a big difference.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
You're right, he does make his team better with his assists, but not nearly on an exceptional high level like some PG's (*cough* kidd). He's 28, he's past his prime, he's not going to get any better..whilst compared to bogut where the sky is the limit. And do they really need a very pricey vet like starbury... hell if you want a vet resign Kevin Willis. The hawks are a long away from the playoffs, plus his contract still has 4 or 3 years (I think), even with your roster of:</div>
So? Kidd is considered one of the best PG's in history. What matters is Marbury can make his teammates better and will do it in Atlanta. He's in his prime not past it. Willis is pretty much ineffective, Marbury will give you 20/8 a night. When his contract expires, Childress and Smith expire too so it works out well.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">PG: Marbury
SG: Childress
SF: Smith
PF: Harrington
C: Drobnjak

Sure, it's a better roster then they would have if they drafted Bogut, but in the long run, would you rather have a deteriorating PG in marbury, the incredibly raw green who will take a long while to really contribute to any team, and the overweight and under sized sweetney, or the rising star, and potential of Bogut. Like I said, you can't teach size, and bogut already combines that with a high basketball IQ (which is really rare in 7 footers) and already has the skill to contribute, simply he has an amazing overall game and is still very young.</div>
But Marbury will help right away and by the time he starts deteriorating, Green would start flourishing along with Sweetney. Bogut is the most NBA ready in the draft but he doesn't have the biggest potential.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">All I have to say to this...is everything I said above...sweetney is overweight and IS in bad shape comparing to basically any other PF in the leage you cannot deny that, although he will be given the oppurtunity during the off season to change, green is incredibly raw, out of highschool, he'll take a long while to turn into anything like T-Mac, also he needs to work on his upperbody, he just doesn't have a NBA body right now, he will turn into a great NBA all-star...but it will take a lot of development for that to happen.</div>
Sweetney is not overweight. He uses his body in the post to score. If that?s the case than Elton Brand is overweight too. If you watch Sweetney on a consistent basis you would know. Green is raw, but once Marbury starts breaking down, he?ll start making a big impact. Mac broke out in his 3rd year. Kobe broke out his 2nd year.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">What I meant by that is the only real servicable thing the hawks would bet is marbury, I don't think they need a fat power-forward in sweetney, a raw gerald green, and the LAST thing they need is ANOTHER role player via the 30th pick.

Meh, typical NY fan.

</div>
Do you watch NBA basketball? You?re really sounding?uninformed to put it nicely. Even if you thought Sweetney was fat, he is still effective. Green would make an impact when Marbury starts breaking down, and how many low picks have turned out well? Ginobili, Parker, Rashard Lewis, Ariza, Duhon and the list goes on. How would a solid role player be the last thing they need?

 

[Mr. J]

It's not a dumb idea. It is very interesting at the least is the point im tryng to get across.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

First off the Atlanta Hawks first priority is to get people to buy their tickets and go to their games. That's their first order of business. Marbury can do that if nothing else. Second, Bogut as it's already been said is not a good fit for the up tempo game the Hawks want to run whereas Marbury is a great fit. Finally Marbury just might make Atlanta a place where basketball players want to go again if they can start winning again. No free agent will sign with the Hawks no matter how much money is thrown at them. Even if Marbury doesnt have alot of good years left if he can get them to start winning, there's a chance that free agents will sign with the Hawks. So getting Marbury has alot more benefits then 20 points and 8 assists a night. If we throw in a player like Mo Taylor who is a legitimate threat in the low post I'm sure that the Hawks or Hornets would give up draft picks(especially since there are no Duncans in the draft)to bring back some life to their respective clubs.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">K, with my "the fat guy" quote, it was a joke, because he is overweight, and not in a good way like shaq was/is.</div>

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post"> All I have to say to this...is everything I said above...sweetney is overweight and IS in bad shape comparing to basically any other PF in the leage you cannot deny that, although he will be given the oppurtunity during the off season to change...</div>

Now tell me how is Sweetney "overweight" if it doesnt affect his game? Sweetney may be 270 lbs but he doesnt move like it. He's pretty quick and agile. You mention the shape of all the other powerforwards in league but you dont mention he's stronger than almost all of them in the low post. You can probably count on one hand all the powerforwards in the league that can stop him in the low post. Compared to Sweetney most of the other powerforwards in the league are just oversized small forwards. Sweetney is usually stronger than the guy guarding him and if he's not stronger he's almost certainly quicker.

On a side note Bogut is starting to get overrated. Noone mentioned Bogut's suspect on ball defense. He certainly will not be a good shot blocker and he probably wont be an outstanding rebounder considering his mobility issues. Not saying he shouldnt be the top pick(and he almost certainly wont!) or that he wont be a good player but he isnt alot better than some of the other guys in this draft. I personally wouldnt pack up Sweetney and my lottery pick for him.

 

[Beat]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post"> I personally wouldnt pack up Sweetney and my lottery pick for him.</div>

It seems as if Got D Wade is now just posting to start trouble.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BobbyEscobar:</div><div class="quote_post">

It seems as if Got D Wade is now just posting to start trouble.</div>
Word, that NY thing was out of line imo.

 

[YSM5]

thats true

 

[Got DWade?]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I added facts and substance instead of saying "the fat guy." There's a big difference.</div> Do I have to define the word joke to you

Joke:

1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.

2. A mischievous trick; a prank.

3.An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.

4.Informal.

(a) Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.

(

An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.

And... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple</div> facts and substance....right.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So? Kidd is considered one of the best PG's in history. What matters is Marbury can make his teammates better and will do it in Atlanta. He's in his prime not past it. Willis is pretty much ineffective, Marbury will give you 20/8 a night. When his contract expires, Childress and Smith expire too so it works out well.</div>

You claim that marbury isn't selfish, it's going to turn out something like with LBJ except on a larger scale. He dishes, and his teammates can't convert. Then he's just going to go back to being selfish. I used Willis as an example, he's much to old, but still provides leadership and direction for the young guys (*cough* Bogut) so basically it was just to prove your logic of..."every team needs a vetran" wrong, when if you want a vetran you could simply sign the lower-class guys for a lot less money. Whatever, I believe that he's starting to get worse just like GP did, except faster, but thats a matter of oppinion and has no way of being proven except by waiting.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But Marbury will help right away and by the time he starts deteriorating, Green would start flourishing along with Sweetney. Bogut is the most NBA ready in the draft but he doesn't have the biggest potential. </div>

That is debatable; we have no idea whether or not green will even be good, he only has a lot of potention, they said the same thing about dorrel wright...he does have a lot of potential but we have no idea how long will it take for him to use it. I don't believe sweetney will ever flourish, he's under-sized, I don't see the comparison to him and brand, and the only people he can beat up on is PF's like haslem...bosh destroyed him, even the stringbean he is. All guards start deteriorating at the age of 30 or around that age, that's only 2 years away for marbury, will green possibly bulk up and "flourish" as you say by then...debatable. My point is marbury will only get worse.

Also, bogut has alot more potential then you give him credit for, he's still really young, I think 20 or 21, and already is the most NBA ready for the draft...but isn't that kind of weird because usually guards are the most ready for the nba...if you look at the past drafts, I guess you don't watch enough basketball

.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney is not overweight. He uses his body in the post to score. If that?s the case than Elton Brand is overweight too. If you watch Sweetney on a consistent basis you would know. Green is raw, but once Marbury starts breaking down, he?ll start making a big impact. Mac broke out in his 3rd year. Kobe broke out his 2nd year. </div>

Sweetney, IMO is exactly like zbo, he uses his weight to push people around, but like H20 said the hawks play an up-tempo game, but the only thing is Bogut isn't fat, sweetney is. And he only averages 5 rpg and 8 ppg in 19 minutes....a monster...and if you compare Zbo to sweetney, i'd take zach, i'd take brand, i'd even take bosh to bang with him, he isn't as strong as you make him out to be, I've watched a lot more bball then you guys think.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney is not overweight.</div>

And, I just had to laugh at that quote again, because it's the funniest thing I have ever heard. I really hope I don't have to explain that to you...

And You never know when players will break out of their shell, if ever. Some people are late, some guys are early, some never do anything. For example I see dorrel wright taking 4 years to really break out of his shell, but that's all debatable.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you watch NBA basketball? You?re really sounding?uninformed to put it nicely. Even if you thought Sweetney was fat, he is still effective. Green would make an impact when Marbury starts breaking down, and how many low picks have turned out well? Ginobili, Parker, Rashard Lewis, Ariza, Duhon and the list goes on. How would a solid role player be the last thing they need?</div>

I can say the same thing about you...

Sweetney is very effective, 5 rpg and 8 ppg in 19 minutes..it's not very incredible. It's pretty reasonable for a sophmore but it's nothing special.

Also, those were all good picks...out of how many ineffective role players that were taken in the draft, there are only a few that turn out to be like shard or manu, etc. So, the 30th pick in the draft isn't all that great if you can't use it.

The NY thing was a joke, may I reffer you to the top of my post.

I do not come in here to flame you guys, I just want to have an intelligible discussion, and I don't come here to start trouble, im doing exactly what mrj18 does in the raptor forums.


And, to H20, the only reason why atlanta doesn't sell tickets is because they lose. The slam dunk champion can sell tickets better then marbury, but if they don't do good no one will come. If they draft Bogut, it will give the atlanta fans something to look forward to. And every good guard wants a dominant big man (why did t-mac come to houston...because it's alot easier to win with Yao) Bogut, is very special, because he's a really good passer, and what kind of guard wouldn't want a guy like bogut in the post to give him the ball when he cuts or is open.

In conclusion, Bogut will make people want to come, and I think Smith with his dunks can sell tickets to...all the team has to do is win.

Bogut isn't really ovverated, his defense isn't that bad, and plus you can teach better defence, he's still really young and is supposed to reach his prime at 26, so he has a long way to go.

And some people are insecure, I'm not making fun of anyone (NY or fat people, shaq was fat, but he dominated, and I don't see that in sweetney), lighten up.

 

[Moo2K4]

Ok, there is a lot in here that I'm going to comment on, so I'm not going to bother quoting. You all know what you posted so I don't find the relevance in it at this point.

First and foremost, Andrew Bogut is NOT overrated. Take a look at this:

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">20.4 ppg
12.2 rpg
2.3 apg
1.0 spg
1.9 bpg
62% FGs (281/453)
69.2% FTs (144/208)
36% 3PTs (9/25)</div>

Now please, show me the overrated in that. He gets all this hype because his numbers back it all up. He is going to be good. There is no question about that in my opinion. He has the capability to make more of an impact on a game for Atlanta then Steph ever could. You want to know why? Because he is big and he's a good low post scorer and those are coveted in this league. Plus, he's what, 20 yrs old? He'd be the future of that franchise to go along with Smith and Childress. To me, the Hawks are stupid to trade what would essentially be Bogut for Marbury, the 8th pick, and someoen who won't even be half as good as Bogut in Sweetney. Bogut will give them more years and will make more of an impact in about a year or so then Marbury.

Next thing up is Gerald Green. I don't see why you people are all over him. The only thing he has is potential. He's undersized and will likely take a couple years to develop. And if you couple him with Marbury, Smith, and Childress on the same team, there won't be any room for him to develop. It'd make no sense for the Hawks to trade off a sure thing in Bogut for someone who could be a huge bust in this league. It's stupid.

Next thing is something I think I already touched on and that'd be Marbury. He's not going to be good for that team. He's selfish. He's a career loser that hasn't taken a team to the playoffs in 2 years now. The only reason he got to the playoffs when he did is because he had great supporting casts everywhere he went. When he was in NJ and didn't have what he thought was a very good one, he went nowhere. Than look what happens. They keep the same team, add Jefferson, and trade Marbury for Kidd and now look, they're flourishing. Then look at the Knicks now. No more then a couple years ago they were in the playoffs, now they're at the bottom of the barrel. Granted Marbury helped them make a push last year, he did nothing this year. He had a good supporting cast and was in the East, a weaker conference, and couldn't do jack. He's not a team player and by bringing him to Atlanta, it'd end up hurting the development of Smith, Childress, and whoever they'd end up taking at the 8th spot.

Next thing, Sweetney is overweight. 6'8", 270 lbs, is overweight. Randolph, on the other hand, is not. 6'9", 253 lbs is good imo. 17 lbs less and an inch taller there. For you guys' sake, you better hope that Sweetney isn't the second coming of Oliver Miller.

And Tribute, you're right. They're first priority is to sell tickets. And bringing in exciting young talent such as Smith, Childress, and potentially Bogut, will do that. And another thing, the Hawks would never take Mo Taylor. He's overpaid and isn't going to revert back to his '98-'99 form when he got 17 ppg. Plus, he's an absolutely horrendus rebounder, only getting 4.8 per game in his career. And as I said, he's overpaid, and the Hawks aren't going to want to take him and his crap contract. And you're wrong again on something else. Bogut WILL be the first pick. He's ready for the NBA more than anyone else in the draft. He will also be a good rebounder. He's 7'0, 250 lbs, which is decent size and he's only bound to bulk up over the summer and in training camps. He will be good. His defense, I don't see how it is suspect. 2 bpg and 1 spg as a SOPHMMORE in college. A mere 20 years old. Granted it is only college, but that's still good for someone so young. He's going to be good. And personally, I don't see who is more worthy of being picked first then him. MABYE Chris Paul, but that's about it. I can tell you one thing, it sure ain't Gerald Green. This forum has him overrated. And on that note, I think I will end my rant.

 

[Voodoo Child]

I hate to post such a short, choppy post in the middle of all these monster ones, but the Knicks fans are being

.

What have we learned today, Knicks fans?

- At 20, Andrew Bogut is a potential future NBA First Teamer and perennial All-Star, while 28-year old Marbury has five good years left in him, tops.

- Michael Sweetney is not our Lord and Savior, he is just simply a guy who ate too many Ho-Ho's as a kid and blimped up to 6-8, 400 lbs. Comparisons to Zach Randolph are silly. Yes, Sweetney only gets around 20 mpg, but when Randolph was a 2nd year player he only got around 16 mpg and was still able to have 30/20 games. Mike Sweetney will be lucky to be... as stated earlier... Oliver Miller.

- Gerald Green is not Tracy McGrady. In fact, he's not even the best High School player, and maybe even not one of the top two High School players. The only reasons people are talking so highly of him is because of a combination of a great McDonald's game and this "potential" lable that all High School players get. His upside <u>is not</u> as good as Andrew Bogut's. Right now he reminds me more of DeShawn Stevenson than Tracy McGrady anyway. That's what he'll develop into.... DeShawn Stevenson.

- The Knicks are not the center of the universe. Everyone is not dying to trade away their future just to have a little piece of New York Knick action.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I was expecting a low-quality post sooner or later...

Anyway, no matter how you look at it, Marbury + Sweetney + the 8th pick in the draft > will be better than Bogut. Plain and simple.</div>
Why would the Hawks cripple their cap space on a non-franchise player? The Hawks are not building their team around Marbury. I don't see any team in the league taking a risk on Marbury. Until Marbury changes his approach to how he plays basketball and actually takes the Knicks into the post-season and does some damage in there, the Knicks will be stuck with him.

I think the Knicks should figure out a way to sign Antonio Daniels or Joe Johnson. They need a player who's able to play PG, defend the perimeter, but big enough to guard shooting guards. This allows Marbury to move to shooting guard on offense, and then have Jamal Crawford come off the bench. Antonio Daniels manhandled Mike Bibby & Bobby Jackson last night, just keep watching him in the playoffs.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">Bogut isn't fat, sweetney is. And he only averages 5 rpg and 8 ppg in 19 minutes....a monster...and if you compare Zbo to sweetney, i'd take zach, i'd take brand, i'd even take bosh to bang with him, he isn't as strong as you make him out to be...</div>

I'm sorry...I dont mean to be rude but that had to be the stupidest thing said in this thread yet. I mean really...Bosh has a hard time holding his own against regular powerforwards. Let alone powerforwards who can post up centers. I know you're a Raptors fan and you have to support your players but let's be reasonable. Teams dont even treat Sweetney like a powerforward, they treat him like a center. If Sweetney was allowed to play his natural position at the big forward spot he'll be able score almost at will. Randolph and Brand I dont think are strong enough to match him in the low post. Brand is especially not a good match against Sweetney considering he's undersized as well(although he'll probably be able to retaliate against him at the other end of the court).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Got DWade?:</div><div class="quote_post">I've watched a lot more bball then you guys think.</div>

Obviously not enough if you truly believe Bosh can bang with Sweetney.

Now on to Moo2k4...those numbers sure do look impressive but will he be able to do that at the next level? There have been plenty of guys who have been monsters at the college level but have had less than stellar careers in the NBA. Probably the most famous example is Christian Laettner. Some people even say he's the best college basketball player of all time(dont really pay attention to college ball so I dont know) and while he's had a solid NBA career he certainly did not live up to expectations.

Here's an interesting fact...muscle weighs more than fat. That's why he's 270 lbs. I wouldnt be surprised if he came back next year weighing in at 280lbs. I think if Sweetney really wants to be a great player he could be. You can hardly find a match for him among powerforwards. All he has to do is work on getting better at finishing around the basket area since he can pretty much go wherever he wants. He's developing a turnaround jumper as well although chances are he wont need it too often. If he puts the work into it, and we all know Georgetown big men are hardworkers, he could be a player who dominates the paint.

The Hawks have been getting high picks in the lottery for a few years now and things didnt havent gotten any better. I doubt alot of Hawks fans believe this year will be any different. I honestly think Hawks management would consider taking a risk to bring Marbury to Atlanta. Bogut may or may not sell tickets but Marbury definetely will and he fits into their scheme of things whereas Bogut does not. Besides the Hawks wont draft Bogut because he cant play their kind of game. They'll probably draft Marvin Williams. The Bobcats will probably draft Chris Paul. The Hornets will probably pick Bogut up though. Andrea Bargnani is probably more deserving of the number one pick and Martynas has more potential than Bogut. You ask how his defense is suspect and point out his blocks and steals per game. I said his on ball defense is suspect plus he seems to have trouble defending the pick and roll. Bogut at the moment isnt 250. I think right now he weighs in at 240 lbs not a good weight at the center position, average for a powerforward. Bogut will not get much stronger than he already is. He has mobility issues already, adding more weight would make them too big of a problem to deal with. It's quite possible that he's wont get much better than he already is. He could very well be the second coming of Christian Laettner.

 

[Moo2K4]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">
The Hawks have been getting high picks in the lottery for a few years now and things didnt havent gotten any better. I doubt alot of Hawks fans believe this year will be any different. I honestly think Hawks management would consider taking a risk to bring Marbury to Atlanta. Bogut may or may not sell tickets but Marbury definetely will and he fits into their scheme of things whereas Bogut does not. Besides the Hawks wont draft Bogut because he cant play their kind of game. They'll probably draft Marvin Williams. The Bobcats will probably draft Chris Paul. The Hornets will probably pick Bogut up though. Andrea Bargnani is probably more deserving of the number one pick and Martynas has more potential than Bogut. You ask how his defense is suspect and point out his blocks and steals per game. I said his on ball defense is suspect plus he seems to have trouble defending the pick and roll. Bogut at the moment isnt 250. I think right now he weighs in at 240 lbs not a good weight at the center position, average for a powerforward. Bogut will not get much stronger than he already is. He has mobility issues already, adding more weight would make them too big of a problem to deal with. It's quite possible that he's wont get much better than he already is. He could very well be the second coming of Christian Laettner.</div>

Quick thought on the weight thing. Zach Randolph only weighs in at 250 and look what he can do. And another thing about it, Okafor only weighs in at 250 as well, and look what he did this year. Weight doesn't mean nearly as much as you think.

Shaq has had problems defending the pick and roll his entire career. I remember the Spurs series last year, the first two games, the Spurs ran that pick and roll like no other. But, that doesn't make Shaq a bad defender. Just because one aspect of your defense is missing, doesn't mean you can't fix it or simply work without it.

Also, why do the draft Marvin Williams? So he can rot on the bench behind Harrington, Smith, and Childress? He'd have no place on this team. They don't need another SF/SG kind of guy. They need a center. Ebkezie isn't what I would call good and Bogut will be worlds better then him.

 

[Chutney]

This thread has strayed from its original topic, which was about trading Marbury. The Knicks could trade Marbury, but I think they're better off with him. They won't get equal value, cause Steph got a pretty bad reputation as a team player right now. IT could turn into a VC trade situation, if the Knicks are bent on trading him. Isiah's priority right now should be replacing the undersized PFs with solid bigmen and swingmen. With Marbury, no move is a good move.
I don't think Atlanta would trade for Marbury. If they wanted a PG that badly, they could just select Chris Paul and avoid taking up the extra cap.
I think Marbury could be traded for a few teams: New Orleans being the most likely (replacing Baron). The major problem with trading Marbury is that he doesn't play to the level of his salary, and he's got a few years still left on his contract.

btw, Sweetney definitely won't be another Oliver Miller, but he won't be an Elton Brand. Depending on his work ethic (even if the extra pounds make him stronger now, his game would benefit if he was faster and had more stamina) he could be an All-Star or a 6th man.

 

[Moo2K4]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting R_ChutneY:</div><div class="quote_post">This thread has strayed from its original topic, which was about trading Marbury. The Knicks could trade Marbury, but I think they're better off with him. They won't get equal value, cause Steph got a pretty bad reputation as a team player right now. IT could turn into a VC trade situation, if the Knicks are bent on trading him. Isiah's priority right now should be replacing the undersized PFs with solid bigmen and swingmen. With Marbury, no move is a good move.
I don't think Atlanta would trade for Marbury. If they wanted a PG that badly, they could just select Chris Paul and avoid taking up the extra cap.
I think Marbury could be traded for a few teams: New Orleans being the most likely (replacing Baron). The major problem with trading Marbury is that he doesn't play to the level of his salary, and he's got a few years still left on his contract.
</div>

New Orleans won't take him. He wouldn't be a good fit for them. They'll likely take someone from the draft to fill that void anyways. Plus, it could hamper the development of JR Smith, something that they don't need to do.

 

[Mr. J]

[quote name='Got DWade?']Do I have to define the word joke to you

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Joke:

1. Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.

2. A mischievous trick; a prank.

3.An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.

4.Informal.

(a) Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.

(

An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.</div>
It wasn?t funny so I had a little trouble telling whether it was a joke.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And... facts and substance....right.</div>
Yeah, it is at the very least more than what you said.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You claim that marbury isn't selfish, it's going to turn out something like with LBJ except on a larger scale. He dishes, and his teammates can't convert. Then he's just going to go back to being selfish. I used Willis as an example, he's much to old, but still provides leadership and direction for the young guys (*cough* Bogut) so basically it was just to prove your logic of..."every team needs a vetran" wrong, when if you want a vetran you could simply sign the lower-class guys for a lot less money. Whatever, I believe that he's starting to get worse just like GP did, except faster, but thats a matter of oppinion and has no way of being proven except by waiting.</div>
Marbury makes his teammates better that was the point. Ever saw Marbury feed Kurt Thomas for all of those open jumpers? Scouts have said Marbury has been looking for his teammates more than ever. Marbury is not way past his prime in his 40's. He?s a 28 years old vet who?s bet around the league for 9 years. GP was well into his 30's when he started to decline. The fact of the matter is Marbury has given us no reason to suggest he?s declining. He?s consistently putting up 20/8.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That is debatable; we have no idea whether or not green will even be good, he only has a lot of potention, they said the same thing about dorrel wright...he does have a lot of potential but we have no idea how long will it take for him to use it. I don't believe sweetney will ever flourish, he's under-sized, I don't see the comparison to him and brand, and the only people he can beat up on is PF's like haslem...bosh destroyed him, even the stringbean he is. All guards start deteriorating at the age of 30 or around that age, that's only 2 years away for marbury, will green possibly bulk up and "flourish" as you say by then...debatable. My point is marbury will only get worse.</div>
We have no idea whether Bogut will be good either. Dorrell Wright wasn?t projected to be a lottery pick which is a big difference between him and Green. Well again, Knick fans who watch him on a consistent basis know what he will turn into. Even if you did think they deteriorate as soon as they hit 30, what matters is them being effective. Kidd is good and he?s past 30. Brevin Knight is good and he?s past 30 too. So let?s say Marbury declines in 2 years and he puts up 17/7, would that be horrible? Well anything is debatable when dealing with the draft. Most likely every player will improve in 2 years.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, bogut has alot more potential then you give him credit for, he's still really young, I think 20 or 21, and already is the most NBA ready for the draft...but isn't that kind of weird because usually guards are the most ready for the nba...if you look at the past drafts, I guess you don't watch enough basketball

.</div>
He does have potential, but the potential you make him out to be as if he?s a lock for the hall of fame. Bogut is putting up good numbers in a very weak conference.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney, IMO is exactly like zbo, he uses his weight to push people around, but like H20 said the hawks play an up-tempo game, but the only thing is Bogut isn't fat, sweetney is. And he only averages 5 rpg and 8 ppg in 19 minutes....a monster...and if you compare Zbo to sweetney, i'd take zach, i'd take brand, i'd even take bosh to bang with him, he isn't as strong as you make him out to be, I've watched a lot more bball then you guys think.</div>
So every single player on the Hawks has to run? What will happen if a good defensive team stops their fast break? Sweetney is a good player. I didn?t say he was a monster. I used those stats to indicate how efficient he is in the little minutes he receives. How could Bosh bang with Sweetney? What is he like 210 pounds? That?s pretty funny. Was this another on of your jokes?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And, I just had to laugh at that quote again, because it's the funniest thing I have ever heard. I really hope I don't have to explain that to you...</div>
You know what. I think Sweetney should lose like 30 pounds. Sweetney operates by using his weight. And is effectvie. Even if you thought he was far, he is putting up great numbers and has the best FG% out of any sophomore in the league.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And You never know when players will break out of their shell, if ever. Some people are late, some guys are early, some never do anything. For example I see dorrel wright taking 4 years to really break out of his shell, but that's all debatable.</div>
Green is better than Dorrell. Green is pretty much a lock for the lottery...Dorrell wasn?t. Wright is playing with the Heat so his development will get hindered to a certain degree. Also The Smith?s were high schoolers thought to be 4 years from contributing, and they contributed already!





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sweetney is very effective, 5 rpg and 8 ppg in 19 minutes..it's not very incredible. It's pretty reasonable for a sophmore but it's nothing special.</div>
Those are solid numbers. You?re acting as if he?s a bum. When given 25-30 minutes, he put up better numbers than Bosh

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also, those were all good picks...out of how many ineffective role players that were taken in the draft, there are only a few that turn out to be like shard or manu, etc. So, the 30th pick in the draft isn't all that great if you can't use it.</div>
Actually there?s at least one of those every year. Let?s take a look these past few years:
2004 NBA Draft:
Chirs Duhon
Trevor Ariza
Anderson Varejao

2003 in the second round:
Willie Green
Kyle Korver
Your man Matt Bonner
Maurice Williams

2002 in the second round:
Dan Gadzuric
Carlos Boozer
Ronald Murray
Darius Songaila
Rasual Butler

2001 in the second round:
Gilbert Arenas
Trenton Hassell
Mehmet Okur
Earl Watson
Bobby Simmons

2000 in the second round:
Marko Jaric
Michael Redd
Brain Cardinal
Eduardo Najara
(You don?t have to include them just two valuable role players.)

1999 in the second Round:
Manu Ginobili
Rodney Buford
Lee Nailon
Now those are just a few names I threw out who turned out to be good role players and even a few stars.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The NY thing was a joke, may I reffer you to the top of my post.

I do not come in here to flame you guys, I just want to have an intelligible discussion, and I don't come here to start trouble, im doing exactly what mrj18 does in the raptor forums.</div>
What do I do in the Raptors forum? I haven?t posted there in a while.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And, to H20, the only reason why atlanta doesn't sell tickets is because they lose. The slam dunk champion can sell tickets better then marbury, but if they don't do good no one will come. If they draft Bogut, it will give the atlanta fans something to look forward to. And every good guard wants a dominant big man (why did t-mac come to houston...because it's alot easier to win with Yao) Bogut, is very special, because he's a really good passer, and what kind of guard wouldn't want a guy like bogut in the post to give him the ball when he cuts or is open.</div>
And the slam dunk champ and Marbury on the same team can sell a whole bunch of tickets. McGrady came to Houston because he wanted to get out of Orlando the team with the worst record last year.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In conclusion, Bogut will make people want to come, and I think Smith with his dunks can sell tickets to...all the team has to do is win.</div>
Marbury will make people want to come. Green would make people want to come also.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bogut isn't really ovverated, his defense isn't that bad, and plus you can teach better defence, he's still really young and is supposed to reach his prime at 26, so he has a long way to go.</div>
I think Tribute mean that some people are overrating him. I mean some act as if he is a lock for hall of fame. He is a good player, but he still has not dominated in a higher level.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And some people are insecure, I'm not making fun of anyone (NY or fat people, shaq was fat, but he dominated, and I don't see that in sweetney), lighten up.

</div>
I don?t think Sweetney can be dominate like Shaq either, but he is a good player and is capable of helping out teams. He is an excellent rebounder (especially considering his size), he has good post moves, he gets to the line, and is a hard worker. Even if you think Sweetney will never be anything more than a simple role player in the league, if he puts up 10/7 for a team, it can certainly help, no?

Everyone else, expect a reply tommorow. I get home late on Sundays and I don't feel like answering everyone elses replies tonight.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

Moo2K4, about the weight thing you're right. I only mentioned Bogut's weight because you had the wrong weight and said he could bulk up in the offseason. I was just correcting the weight and saying that he wont be able to handle the extra weight so he wont be very effective at the center position.

It's not just the pick and roll Bogut has trouble defending. It's his overall man to man defense is the problem. It's not good on the NCAA level. Needless to say he's going to have serious issues defending the low post in the NBA. He especially has trouble defending athletic players like Okafor and a few other people in this draft like Petro and Splitter.

I dont think the Hawks will draft Bogut simply because he doesnt fit in with what they want to do. They want to run, run, and run some more. Bogut cant do that. Marvin Williams I believe will be able to play powerforward as well so he wont take up Harrington's or Smith's minutes. Marvin Williams is young guy with lots of potential who fits in perfectly with the Hawks system. That's my take on it.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting R_ChutneY:</div><div class="quote_post">This thread has strayed from its original topic, which was about trading Marbury. The Knicks could trade Marbury, but I think they're better off with him. They won't get equal value, cause Steph got a pretty bad reputation as a team player right now. IT could turn into a VC trade situation, if the Knicks are bent on trading him. Isiah's priority right now should be replacing the undersized PFs with solid bigmen and swingmen. With Marbury, no move is a good move.
I don't think Atlanta would trade for Marbury. If they wanted a PG that badly, they could just select Chris Paul and avoid taking up the extra cap.
I think Marbury could be traded for a few teams: New Orleans being the most likely (replacing Baron). The major problem with trading Marbury is that he doesn't play to the level of his salary, and he's got a few years still left on his contract.

btw, Sweetney definitely won't be another Oliver Miller, but he won't be an Elton Brand. Depending on his work ethic (even if the extra pounds make him stronger now, his game would benefit if he was faster and had more stamina) he could be an All-Star or a 6th man.</div>

You're right about the direction the thread has gone. You're wrong about keeping Marbury though. It wont turn into a Carter situation because Carter was making alot of noise about leaving and simply not playing at a high level. Marbury is still putting up nice numbers and hasnt whined about leaving. The Knicks would be better off trading him. History says the Knicks will get better soon after they do trade him. Trade him! If not for draft picks then try trading him to Cleveland for the Big Z and someone else(McGinnis perhaps?, I'm open to suggestions). Lebron needs some help over there, management doesnt look like they want to resign the Big Z and we need someone to man the center position. With Marbury gone we should have Crawford man the point considering his inconsistency when it comes to shooting the ball. Find a way to bring Wally World back to New York(using expiring contracts or Kurt Thomas)and pray that Houston is healthy.
PG-Crawford
SG-Houston
SF-Wally
PF-Sweetney
C-Big Z
A strange looking starting lineup I know but I think it can work.

The Hawks wouldnt want Marbury because they need a point guard. They would trade for Marbury simply to bring some excitement and optimism back to Atlanta. Sell some more tickets and possibly even lure a free agent in the off season. The Hawks trading for Marbury would be an extremely marketing move.

Sweetney doesnt have any extra pounds. He's already pretty well built, he does run the floor and on the rare occasion he cant post up his man he'll be able to face them up and use his quickness. I dont know why people think he's overweight. He doesnt have a huge gut. He's just a wide guy is all. If his size doesnt affect his game in a negative way than he's just fine. As far as his potential goes if he works hard...sky's the limit...as far as the paint area is concerned.

 

[Got DWade?]

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I look forward to continuing this pointless debate tommorow...