Steph Vows Return Of 'Starbury'

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">CLEVELAND - A defiant Stephon Marbury reopened his bitter and sometimes juvenile feud with Larry Brown yesterday by saying he will do things his way next season and that if the Knicks' Hall of Fame coach doesn't like it, "I don't care."
Confident that he won't be traded and repeating his familiar mantra to play like "Starbury" - whatever that means - next season, Marbury said that his days of conforming to Brown's demands as a controlled, pass-first point guard are over. Asked if that is what Brown wants to hear, Marbury fired back: "I don't care what he wants to hear. I'm telling you what I'm going to do."

"Like I said he came here, I'm willing and able, 100% committed to do whatever he wanted me to do," Marbury added. "I did it. It didn't work. So I'm going to play like I know how to play."

Marbury's contentious relationship with Brown is as ugly as any in professional sports and Knicks president Isiah Thomas is expected to explore trading trading him. One possibility is swapping Marbury to Philadelphia for Allen Iverson, who also feuded with Brown but managed to lead his team to an NBA Finals and capture league MVP honors. Marbury, who is on his fourth team, never has advanced past the first round.

Marbury isn't worried about being traded because he doesn't believe it's going to happen. The fact that he will earn $60 million over the next three seasons probably has something to do with his sense of security.

"I'm going to be back in New York," Marbury said. "I'm not going anywhere, I don't think. As far as I know, I don't see why I would be anywhere else but New York."

It's hard to imagine both Marbury and Brown ever being able to peacefully co-exist. Before Marbury spoke yesterday, Brown said, "I don't buy into what he says," in reference to the guard struggling to adjust to his coaching.

Brown felt that Marbury was at the top of his game during a six-game winning streak that began on Jan. 2 and ended with a Jan. 15 loss to Toronto. The following day, Marbury suffered a sprained shoulder in a loss to Minnesota. Overall, the Knicks lost 16 of 17 games after starting 2006 with six straight wins.

"I hope he wants what I want," Brown said. "I hope he wants to win games, make his teammates better. That's the only thing that really matters. I heard he wants to play like Allen. I heard he wants us to play like Phoenix. I don't get caught up in that. I thought he was playing great and if he plays like he played before he got hurt we'll win games next year."

Brown, who reiterated that Marbury likely will be shifted to shooting guard, seems more concerned that he returns with a better attitude.

"I think he's got to make up his mind to continue to improve. That's what all good players do. When we go to training camp that's got to be our priority: we've got to make our teammates better."

The knock on Marbury is that unlike Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, he doesn't make his teammates better. Also, Brown needs Marbury to assume a leadership role. During Monday's loss at Indiana, Marbury was on the bench laughing throughout much of the game.

Yesterday's comments only serve to enhance the notion that Marbury is a me-first player. He seemed to be blaming his poor season on Brown, saying, "If things would have been in place the way how they were supposed to, I don't think we would have been in this situation. But that just didn't happen."

Marbury didn't feel he was an integral part of the team this season and promises that won't be the case next campaign.

"He doesn't have to worry," Marbury said. "I'm going to do everything that I did before he came here."

"I'm going to say it again. I played like Stephon Marbury this year. And next year I'm going to play like Starbury."</div>

Source

 

[playmaker15]

Isn't Starbury just Stephon Marbury dribbling like a streetball game and taking more shots? Maybe he'll get traded for improving himself so much. Not a good idea because it doesn't matter wether he's Starbury, or Marbury he still makes no one around him better.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Isn't Starbury just Stephon Marbury dribbling like a streetball game and taking more shots? Maybe he'll get traded for improving himself so much. Not a good idea because it doesn't matter wether he's Starbury, or Marbury he still makes no one around him better.</div>

Marbury does make people better around him, go watch this basketball team before you come here making bad post like that. Thats basically border line trolling.

Marbury does well off the pick and roll, give Fyre who's just a jumpshoter wide open shots. He's done this with Keith Van Horn, Kurt Thomas, Tim Thomas, Taylor, and others.

If you're going to critize Marbury, then learn how to do it.

 

[playmaker15]

If Steph makes everyone better why has he never been able to win anywhere? He is the most overated player in the league and if he makes everyone better why are the Knicks so bad? Put Steve Nash or Jason Kidd on this team instead of Stephon and they are at least a 6 seed IMO.

 

[Avery]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Confident that he won't be traded and <font color=""Red"">repeating his familiar mantra to play like "Starbury" - whatever that means</font> - next season, Marbury said that his days of conforming to Brown's demands as a controlled, pass-first point guard are over. Asked if that is what Brown wants to hear, Marbury fired back: "I don't care what he wants to hear. I'm telling you what I'm going to do."</div>

LMFAO! That made my day.

 

[Really Lost One]

well, steph can do whatever the hell he wants, but last i checked, "starbury" hasnt won anything with any team hes been with. i dont know, but maybe its time marbury learns that his way of doing things is not always right

 

[02civic]

Marbury's an idiot...how the hell does he say that he's not going to play the way Brown wants him to play because he tried it for a part of a year and it didnt work. When has playing like Starbury resulted in things working out?

And BTW, Marbury doenst make people around him better...he gives some big men some offensive chances through the pick and roll. But thats one move..one play. Sure some bigs score of that, but its not making them better..its not pushing them to try, to defend harder to play harder, he doenst motivate them by getting an assist to them. It's more than passing someone a ball, its more than asssits...he simply isnt concerned with how well others do and it shows in his game.

BTW how in the hell would Isiah get a Marbury for Iverson deal done? Marbury is crap compared to Iverson and yet he gets the same amount of money for the same amount of years. Plus he's a cancer to boot.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">If Steph makes everyone better why has he never been able to win anywhere? He is the most overated player in the league and if he makes everyone better why are the Knicks so bad? Put Steve Nash or Jason Kidd on this team instead of Stephon and they are at least a 6 seed IMO.</div>

How many rings do Kidd and Nash have? This winning clinche overused "logic" you're trying to pull here isn't going to help your agruement.


The fact is, and all Knick fans or people who watch Marbury for atleast over 50 games a season know he works well with big men, he create shots for them constantly. He passes more than often in the pick and roll. Unlike Steve Francis who will look for his own shot and ignore the big men who set up him for the pick and roll.

Marbury is the most overrated player in the league you want to say? Who talks about Marbury being great besides himself?

My point is, Marbury isn't the problem to this team, but he isn't the solution.

But for you to troll this forum with "Marbury sucks, he's overrated, he's a ball hog, he's a cancer" isn't smart.


Marbury for the first 30 games of the season, played pass first passive basketball. For the first 15 games, he played pretty good defense. He tried to do what Brown asked for. Marbury didn't look for his own or try to be "Starbury" in the beginning of the season.


The problem with the Knicks they lack ball movement. Eddy Curry cannot be a primary option, he's a ball stopper, turnover prone, and forces too many offensive fouls. Francis dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and turnovers. Nate Robinson is wild, and is a 5"8 Shooting guard trying to run an offense. Crawford was terrible in the first 30 games with his turnovers and assist. Recently he has done a good job. Why is Jalen Rose is on this team?

Please, I come to the Knicks forum to read updates about the Knicks or anything new, not non-logical post about "What has Marbury won, he's a ball hog, he's a cancer"

I've suffered and watch this team all season, I don't need that bullshiteo here.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">Marbury's an idiot...how the hell does he say that he's not going to play the way Brown wants him to play because he tried it for a part of a year and it didnt work. When has playing like Starbury resulted in things working out?

And BTW, Marbury doenst make people around him better...he gives some big men some offensive chances through the pick and roll. But thats one move..one play. Sure some bigs score of that, but its not making them better..its not pushing them to try, to defend harder to play harder, he doenst motivate them by getting an assist to them. It's more than passing someone a ball, its more than asssits...he simply isnt concerned with how well others do and it shows in his game.

BTW how in the hell would Isiah get a Marbury for Iverson deal done? Marbury is crap compared to Iverson and yet he gets the same amount of money for the same amount of years. Plus he's a cancer to boot.</div>

Majority of Channing Fyre's points come from the pick and roll jumpshot from 18 feet, what are you talking about? You said its one play, when its a move Knicks constantly do when Curry isn't in the game.

Marbury has sucess in the NBA, he has been to the playoff with 3 different teams, he has put up some unreal productive numbers of 20 and 8.

I've followed Marbury since he was on Phoneix, and he's far from a cancer.

You don't average 20 and 8 all your career "easily". Marbury accually passes the ball constantlyon the pick and roll. He create shots for his big men.

This is why guys with no post games like Keith Van Horn, Channing Fyre, Kurt Thomas are productive with Marbury. Marbury is one of the best in the NBA using the pick and roll with jumpshooting big men. This is where most of his assist come from.

Marbury's problem is he's never had a chance to build a relationship with his coach.

11 different coaches in 9 years isn't easy. These coaches may ask Marbury to do alot of different things. This has become a yearly major change for Stephon. Its as difficult as being traded, because you're the point guard, you have to set it up and read plays from the coach.

Problem with Stephon is he's not ready to take that leadership role. He's not built inside for that.

and the Ego thing is overblowned and oversaid, BE CREATIVE.

Everyone in the NBA has that mentality "I'm the best PG, I'm the best C" If you don't have that mentality, then you'll have low standards and will have low achievements. Marbury just said it to the media, thats too bad. He is right? No. But its reality, everyone is like that.

 

[Beat]

I can't wait for the team to improve under the leadership of "Starbury"!

 

[Char]

Is Stephon Marbury in love with Starbury?
Stephon needs to take a hard look at the facts and stats and how much more credibilty Larry Brown has over both Stephon Marbury and Starbury.
I think Stephon just needs to keep his head and grab the opportunity to play under a Hall of Fame coach like Larry Brown. Iverson wept when asked about Larry Brown on Stephen A. Smith's ESPN show. That alone shows respect for Larry Brown and I am amazed at how Stephon is not recognizing or respecting that.

 

[Tha CTown Knick]

Well if you dont care Marbury, then have fun not caring on another team. We dont want you anymore.

 

[Laker_fan]

Haha he's too funny. He should be player-coach. Starbury is his alter-ego that's going to be unleashed. If both he and Brown stay, it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Miami Flash City]

I understand Marbury is one probably the most hated basketball player on the planet....but hey Im looking forward to the coming of "Starbury" even if it fails its entertainment I like that.

 

[playmaker15]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting j0se:</div><div class="quote_post">How many rings do Kidd and Nash have? This winning clinche overused "logic" you're trying to pull here isn't going to help your agruement.


The fact is, and all Knick fans or people who watch Marbury for atleast over 50 games a season know he works well with big men, he create shots for them constantly. He passes more than often in the pick and roll. Unlike Steve Francis who will look for his own shot and ignore the big men who set up him for the pick and roll.

Marbury is the most overrated player in the league you want to say? Who talks about Marbury being great besides himself?

My point is, Marbury isn't the problem to this team, but he isn't the solution.

But for you to troll this forum with "Marbury sucks, he's overrated, he's a ball hog, he's a cancer" isn't smart.


Marbury for the first 30 games of the season, played pass first passive basketball. For the first 15 games, he played pretty good defense. He tried to do what Brown asked for. Marbury didn't look for his own or try to be "Starbury" in the beginning of the season.


The problem with the Knicks they lack ball movement. Eddy Curry cannot be a primary option, he's a ball stopper, turnover prone, and forces too many offensive fouls. Francis dribbles, dribbles, dribbles and turnovers. Nate Robinson is wild, and is a 5"8 Shooting guard trying to run an offense. Crawford was terrible in the first 30 games with his turnovers and assist. Recently he has done a good job. Why is Jalen Rose is on this team?

Please, I come to the Knicks forum to read updates about the Knicks or anything new, not non-logical post about "What has Marbury won, he's a ball hog, he's a cancer"

I've suffered and watch this team all season, I don't need that bullshiteo here.</div>

Nash won MVP last year and Kidd led New jersey to 2 straight NBA Finals. While they may have lost they were Eastern Conference Champions and that's more than anything Marbury's ever done and that's why both are HOF candidates when they retire. From what I've read in this thread you're the only Knick fan I've seen defending him.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting playmaker15:</div><div class="quote_post">Nash won MVP last year and Kidd led New jersey to 2 straight NBA Finals. While they may have lost they were Eastern Conference Champions and that's more than anything Marbury's ever done and that's why both are HOF candidates when they retire. From what I've read in this thread you're the only Knick fan I've seen defending him.</div>

What was the post meant? Cause I never said or will believe Marbury is a better player or PG than Kidd or Nash at this point. Nash and Kidd never won the FINALS either.

Nash isn't a HOF candidate, he has to do what he's doing now for atleast 2-3 years. Kidd is a no brainer.

I'm defending Marbury from the troll-like rediculous statements that has been posted, cause I'm tired of people coming here and hating on the Knicks for no reason.

I know this TEAM is bad, and if you've been here for a while, you can ask any Knick fan in here, and they will tell you I was the first to say this team would be a diaster to with Brown, and all these players who play indivual non defensive basketball.

Its simple, get off of Marbury's meat. The media LOVES to ride Marbury, and the public lets the media think for them and select their opinion.

Francis, Curry, Rose, Taylor, Rose, Robinson, James all have been negative for this team.

and Isiah gets no attention now cause of statements like this by Marbury.

I think Marbury make these statements so non opinionated people like YOU guys and the media can ride them, so Marbury can save Isiah's ass.

Anyway, this is played out. Look how Laker_fan accually deeply falls for this.


I don't mind if Marbury gets traded at all, but get the facts straight, he doesn't hurt this team. Marbury shouldn't have been traded here in the first place. Phoneix was looking for cap space for Amare and to rebuild, and Isiah Thomas was the only guy to take the deal for Phoneix.


Every Isiah deal has to do with the other team not wanting a player or trying to get under the cap. Look at the Magic, the Bulls, the Raptors, Phoneix. These teams are on the rise, while Knicks are on the decline.

 

[phunDamentalz]

I will say one thing positive, Starbury even when he plays like Starbury does not dominate the ball more than he should. The solution to me seems pretty easy, have him start at the 2 EVERY GAME, have him be one of your two or three offensive threats, get a pass-first point guard, doesn't have to be Nash or Kidd, just someone decent, and figure out who the 2nd scoring option will be, someone in the post whether it be Frye or Curry. Then build the rest of the guys around that....none of this EVERYBODY rebound, everybody defend, give guys a specialty. at least that's what i would do. Bottom line they need a consistent line-up night in and night out so they can get a rhythm. Guys want to know their role. A lot of times the players on this Knick team look unsure of their role - that leads to turnovers or missed baskets. They have too many 2 guard type players right now - Jamal, Nate,Stephon and Francis are all leaning towards the 2 spot than a true point guard. As a team they need to SIMPLIFY. they are a mess roster-wise. all the successful teams, the guys know their roles

 

[nkwu]

Despite Isaiah being the root cause of this problem(I whole heartedly agree with that fact), Marbury's attitude doesn't help this team's situation at all. If hew ants to win he has to mature this way and squash whatever's between him and Brown,

 

[Tha CTown Knick]

Nash has to do more than he has so far to be in the HOF. Kidd has a much better chance.

 

[j0se]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting phunDamentalz:</div><div class="quote_post">I will say one thing positive, Starbury even when he plays like Starbury does not dominate the ball more than he should. The solution to me seems pretty easy, have him start at the 2 EVERY GAME, have him be one of your two or three offensive threats, get a pass-first point guard, doesn't have to be Nash or Kidd, just someone decent, and figure out who the 2nd scoring option will be, someone in the post whether it be Frye or Curry. Then build the rest of the guys around that....none of this EVERYBODY rebound, everybody defend, give guys a specialty. at least that's what i would do. Bottom line they need a consistent line-up night in and night out so they can get a rhythm. Guys want to know their role. A lot of times the players on this Knick team look unsure of their role - that leads to turnovers or missed baskets. They have too many 2 guard type players right now - Jamal, Nate,Stephon and Francis are all leaning towards the 2 spot than a true point guard. As a team they need to SIMPLIFY. they are a mess roster-wise. all the successful teams, the guys know their roles</div>

Marbury is too passive to play SG, and too short to defend shooting guards.

Trade everyone from this team...

 

[Mr.Wade]

Trade Larry Brown for a box of Lucky Charms, I think the 4 leaf clovers found in the box will result in more wins than he can generate.

I don't see how people can agree with Larry's coaching. What is calling your players out in public going to do to your team other than hurt the chemistry and make them not want to listen to you even more. I have lost all the respect I've ever had for L.B during his tenure in NYK.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Trade Larry Brown for a box of Lucky Charms, I think the 4 leaf clovers found in the box will result in more wins than he can generate.

I don't see how people can agree with Larry's coaching. What is calling your players out in public going to do to your team other than hurt the chemistry and make them not want to listen to you even more. I have lost all the respect I've ever had for L.B during his tenure in NYK.</div>

1. Criticizing players publicly is something Brown has always done with great success. Ask Billups and Iverson since they both went though the same thing.

2. A bunch of other very solid coaches do the exact same thing: Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles and Phil Jackson.

3. If players dont listen to the coach they should be moved. There is absolutely no excuse for a player not doing what his coach tells him. NONE!

4. Name a coach that you think can do better.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">1. Criticizing players publicly is something Brown has always done with great success. Ask Billups and Iverson since they both went though the same thing.</div>
It hasn't worked in New York so far. We'll have to see next season, I guess.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2. A bunch of other very solid coaches do the exact same thing: Jeff Van Gundy, Scott Skiles and Phil Jackson.</div>
Brown has really taking the criticizing to another level. I've heard coaches saying things like "he's playing soft" or something of that nature. Never have I heard a coach call a player delusional, especially to a 20-year-old second year player. Since then, you can tell Ariza was never the same. He just lost too much confidence.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">3. If players dont listen to the coach they should be moved. There is absolutely no excuse for a player not doing what his coach tells him. NONE!</div>
Well, Larry has a lot of the players under his nose. We were terrible on defense, but he kept our best defender inactive for a long time. David Lee is JUST getting minutes and should be getting Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor's minutes. Last month Crawford wasn’t getting his due minutes, either.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Name a coach that you think can do better.</div>
Herb Williams.

 

[el_guasibiri]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">4. Name a coach that you think can do better.

Herb Williams.</div>

AMEEEEN to that.
I do really think that Herb Williams would do a better job. Because he doesn't talk trash about the players in the media.He find's a way to get them to improve by talking to them and believe in them. That's why He has so much respect and confidence around the Knicks team.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">It hasn't worked in New York so far. We'll have to see next season, I guess.</div>

Obviously it hasnt worked so far and it wont work next season until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Brown has really taking the criticizing to another level. I've heard coaches saying things like "he's playing soft" or something of that nature. Never have I heard a coach call a player delusional, especially to a 20-year-old second year player. Since then, you can tell Ariza was never the same. He just lost too much confidence.</div>

The criticism would not have gone to another level if the players would respond and they wont respond until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry. He can take the criticism to any level he deems necessary. Afterall he's the one with the history of winning so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. As for Ariza... please Ariza was the same old player before and after the comments. High energy, solid defense and absolutely no jumpshot and little ball handling skills to speak of. I told you he was the second coming of Shandon Anderson but you didnt want to hear it. And if you havent heard of a sports coach at any level making those sort of comments than I dont know what so say. Alot worse is probably said at the high school level in all sports.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, Larry has a lot of the players under his nose. We were terrible on defense, but he kept our best defender inactive for a long time. David Lee is JUST getting minutes and should be getting Malik Rose and Maurice Taylor's minutes. Last month Crawford wasn?t getting his due minutes, either.</div>

You're second guessing the man you called the greatest coach in the business? While a solid defender, Ariza's defense wasnt good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. And Lee doesnt bring what Rose and Taylor bring to the table which is why Lee didnt get as many minutes as he should have. People were talking about trading Jamal Crawford last month so it's pretty obvious why he wasnt getting minutes.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Herb Williams.</div>

Funny. We tried that last season and we were just as bad as we were with Lenny Wilkens. Herb Williams also had a better team than the one we have now in a weaker conference.

I always get a laugh when I hear people blame Larry Brown.. Isiah Thomas built a team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted and now the team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted are losing and people are blaming the person, who before the season began, they considered the best coach in the NBA. I guess Trevor Ariza and Eddy Curry arent the only confused ones. I mean it's pretty simple math to me: Team of Overpaid Unwanted Losers= Loser Team. But I suppose it's easier to blame the coach than to accept the fact that the team is the problem. I hope it helps you guys sleep at night.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Obviously it hasnt worked so far and it wont work next season until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry.</div>
Sixer and Pistons and fans called Iverson and Billups bums too. And Brown is on record saying Curry is ?key to the team? and ?better than anyone in the 2006 draft.?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The criticism would not have gone to another level if the players would respond and they wont respond until we lose bums like Marbury, Francis, Rose and Curry. He can take the criticism to any level he deems necessary. Afterall he's the one with the history of winning so I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. As for Ariza... please Ariza was the same old player before and after the comments. High energy, solid defense and absolutely no jumpshot and little ball handling skills to speak of. I told you he was the second coming of Shandon Anderson but you didnt want to hear it. And if you havent heard of a sports coach at any level making those sort of comments than I dont know what so say. Alot worse is probably said at the high school level in all sports.</div>
Marbury actually responded well. He did his best to do everything that Brown said. That?s why this whole Starbury thing came. He wants to play his way instead of Brown?s. Ariza had no handle or a jumper, but Brown played him at point guard for some reason when Marbury was injured in January. He was terrible on offense. So? The Knicks are terrible on defense. And I have heard worst? trust me. However, that stuff is said behind closed doors, while Brown is spilling it out to the media. Two very different cases.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're second guessing the man you called the greatest coach in the business? While a solid defender, Ariza's defense wasnt good enough to make up for his other deficiencies. And Lee doesnt bring what Rose and Taylor bring to the table which is why Lee didnt get as many minutes as he should have. People were talking about trading Jamal Crawford last month so it's pretty obvious why he wasnt getting minutes.</div>
I had no idea Brown would coach this terrible. There?s no denying that. He said it himself and basically said he doesn?t deserve the money he?s getting. We have a different starting lineup every other game and you expect there to be chemistry? Rose and Taylor bring other things to the table? Like what? Selfishness? Turnovers? Maurice Taylor is a bum. Plain and simple. He?s selfish, a somewhat decent scorer, but that?s about it. By the way, did you see what he did tonight against the Bobcats? That ugly, fast break scoop shot instead of feeding an open Jamal Crawford? We?re more effective without him. While I like Malik Rose?s heart and locker room presence, he is terrible. He?s absolutely terrible on offense. Did you know he shoots 37% from the field? And his defense is overrated. He?s just about average at best. Last month was March meaning Crawford couldn?t have been discussed in trades.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Funny. We tried that last season and we were just as bad as we were with Lenny Wilkens. Herb Williams also had a better team than the one we have now in a weaker conference.

I always get a laugh when I hear people blame Larry Brown.. Isiah Thomas built a team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted and now the team of overpaid losers that nobody wanted are losing and people are blaming the person, who before the season began, they considered the best coach in the NBA. I guess Trevor Ariza and Eddy Curry arent the only confused ones. I mean it's pretty simple math to me: Team of Overpaid Unwanted Losers= Loser Team. But I suppose it's easier to blame the coach than to accept the fact that the team is the problem. I hope it helps you guys sleep at night.</div>
I actually think the loss of Allan Houston was bigger than most people think. Of our 49 losses, 30 were by 6 points or less?a clear indication we couldn?t close out games properly.

Regardless of how the team was built, it was not built to be the worst team in the NBA (we might be slightly better than Portland though). Even if we didn?t make the playoffs, we should not be this bad. The man said it: ?I need to do a better job coaching.? That should explain it. And every time he says it (about every game before he got his life threatening tummy ache

) I just get flashbacks to team USA. By the way, it reminds me: wasn?t he not playing LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Amare Stoudemire, and a bunch of other guys who should have been playing?


Anyway, I think Larry Brown should be fired.

 

[Chutney]

Attacking Brown's coaching, or saying that another coach could do better, really assumes that this team had a chance of contention or even playing well in the first place. There was none. Coming into this season there was some optimism among Knicks fans, because of the considerable talent and big names that Isiah had acquired. But, in hindsight, the team was doomed to fail from the start. A lack of chemistry, teamwork, selflessness or motivation has plagued most of the players for their careers. Now say Herb Williams, or whatever coach suits your preference, coached them this year. You get a consistent starting lineup and minutes and less public criticism. How much better would the team be? Maybe 4 or 5 games, maximum, because too many of the players need the ball, there wouldn't be enough minutes to hand around and countless other problems that follow players with bad attitudes. Not enough to warrant the amount of Anti-Larry Brown threads I've seen. Get rid of Brown this season, and in a best-case scenario, the Knicks would be out of the playoffs and I'm sure people would find some other issue to shift their blame from the ever-present problem of crappy management.

People looking at the Brown signing over the offseason seemed to think that it would push the Knicks at least to the 8th spot. But this team is full of players that are the exact opposite of what he needs. And how often has he immediately created a contending team? Outside of Detroit, Brown's first year is usually spent weeding out what he doesn't want and turning around the direction. The 2nd season is usually where the team sees a dramatic increase in wins. And I'm even doubting that the Knicks will see that, because Isiah has only compounded the problem this season. Really, blaming anybody but Isiah Thomas for what has happened the last few seasons, and what will happen next few, is pointless. You can't really point out any of the players on this team as worth building around, and the franchise is a mess financially. Brown never stood a chance.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Attacking Brown's coaching, or saying that another coach could do better, really assumes that this team had a chance of contention or even playing well in the first place. There was none. Coming into this season there was some optimism among Knicks fans, because of the considerable talent and big names that Isiah had acquired. But, in hindsight, the team was doomed to fail from the start. A lack of chemistry, teamwork, selflessness or motivation has plagued most of the players for their careers. Now say Herb Williams, or whatever coach suits your preference, coached them this year. You get a consistent starting lineup and minutes and less public criticism. How much better would the team be? Maybe 4 or 5 games, maximum, because too many of the players need the ball, there wouldn't be enough minutes to hand around and countless other problems that follow players with bad attitudes. Not enough to warrant the amount of Anti-Larry Brown threads I've seen. Get rid of Brown this season, and in a best-case scenario, the Knicks would be out of the playoffs and I'm sure people would find some other issue to shift their blame from the ever-present problem of crappy management.</div>
I wholeheartedly disagree. I don?t remember us getting any considerable big names in the offseason. We traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson and Nate Robinson, and Mike Sweetney and Tim Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis. You say a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued the team, so how do you expect the Knicks to gain chemistry when setting an NBA record for different starting lineups in a season? How can they gain chemistry when one player plays 30 minutes one night and 0 the next? How can they gain chemistry when everyone fears what Brown is going to say about them next morning in the paper? That really brings the team apart if anything. The players have said numerous times they are confused by the ever-changing starting lineups and their inconsistent minutes. What makes it even worse is how he won?t play someone who actually produced the previous night. That?s mind-boggling to me. Trust me, I know this roster has its share of flaws, but there should be no way we?re in last place in the league. Ask yourself this: if Sam Mitchell coached the season like Larry Brown, would you want him fired? Larry Brown, by his own admission, has done a crappy job with this team. You can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah, but you can?t hide the facts because Brown is a ?Hall of Fame coach?.


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People looking at the Brown signing over the offseason seemed to think that it would push the Knicks at least to the 8th spot. But this team is full of players that are the exact opposite of what he needs. And how often has he immediately created a contending team? Outside of Detroit, Brown's first year is usually spent weeding out what he doesn't want and turning around the direction. The 2nd season is usually where the team sees a dramatic increase in wins. And I'm even doubting that the Knicks will see that, because Isiah has only compounded the problem this season. Really, blaming anybody but Isiah Thomas for what has happened the last few seasons, and what will happen next few, is pointless. You can't really point out any of the players on this team as worth building around, and the franchise is a mess financially. Brown never stood a chance.</div>
Well, some of the ?non-Larry? players were actually players he wanted. Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were actually players Larry Brown actually wanted, contrary to what most people believe. So, if you think about it, this is a mess Larry Brown helped to create. Big changes will likely be made, so it?s hard for any of us to tell exactly how the Knicks will fair next year, but I can tell you if Brown continues to coach this way, we won?t be any better.

 

[Chutney]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">I wholeheartedly disagree. I don’t remember us getting any considerable big names in the offseason. We traded Kurt Thomas for Quentin Richardson and Nate Robinson, and Mike Sweetney and Tim Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis. You say a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued the team, so how do you expect the Knicks to gain chemistry when setting an NBA record for different starting lineups in a season? How can they gain chemistry when one player plays 30 minutes one night and 0 the next? How can they gain chemistry when everyone fears what Brown is going to say about them next morning in the paper? That really brings the team apart if anything. The players have said numerous times they are confused by the ever-changing starting lineups and their inconsistent minutes. What makes it even worse is how he won’t play someone who actually produced the previous night. That’s mind-boggling to me. Trust me, I know this roster has its share of flaws, but there should be no way we’re in last place in the league. Ask yourself this: if Sam Mitchell coached the season like Larry Brown, would you want him fired? Larry Brown, by his own admission, has done a crappy job with this team. You can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah, but you can’t hide the facts because Brown is a “Hall of Fame coach”.</div>
Your still missing the point.

I'll address the small details first though. By big names I meant to emphasize the amount of movement the Knicks did during the offseason. And there's no denying the amount of optimism that was among Knicks fans about the new additions prior to the season. Looking back, I can safely say that most of that optimism and hype was misplaced. I said a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued these players throughout their careers, not this team.

The real point that you should have addressed was that even if you brought in a coach that addressed all of the problems you had with Brown this year (inconsistent lineups, minutes and public criticism), this collection of talent would still have problems with distributing touches and minutes, as well as managing egos. Thats because all of these players have been unable to shake these problems wherever they've been. You say that you can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah? Not some, but the majority of the blame should be with Thomas. You're understandably angry that Brown has allowed this team to be possibly the worst in the league. But I can't understand why more Knicks fans aren't angry that this team, with its huge payroll and amount of hype, has a ceiling of about 4 or 5 games better than it has been so far.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, some of the “non-Larry” players were actually players he wanted. Jalen Rose and Steve Francis were actually players Larry Brown actually wanted, contrary to what most people believe. So, if you think about it, this is a mess Larry Brown helped to create. Big changes will likely be made, so it’s hard for any of us to tell exactly how the Knicks will fair next year, but I can tell you if Brown continues to coach this way, we won’t be any better</div>
I don't buy into Brown actually wanting Marbury and Francis at the same time. And I don't believe that he would have wanted Isiah to trade the Hardaway and Davis contracts, which would have given him him the oppurtunity to bring his own type of players. He may have communicated a "wishlist," but if Isiah were a competent GM he would have had a limit to how much he was willing to give up for those players. I'm sure Brown would have understood. Unfortunately Isiah has never shown patience (something necessary for a rebuilding team), and if its true, like you say, that the team will make moves this year, than I have a hard time blaming Brown for anything that happens the next few seasons.

 

[Mr. J]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I'll address the small details first though. By big names I meant to emphasize the amount of movement the Knicks did during the offseason. And there's no denying the amount of optimism that was among Knicks fans about the new additions prior to the season. Looking back, I can safely say that most of that optimism and hype was misplaced. I said a lack of chemistry and teamwork has plagued these players throughout their careers, not this team.</div>
I think Knick fans had a right to be excited. They had a great draft followed by the signing of a great coach. Little did they know he would coach this badly. Why should it matter what they did throughout their careers if they haven?t done it in New York? There only a select few selfish players on the Knicks: Mo? Taylor, and Steve Francis. I wouldn?t call Rose selfish, in fact I think he should actually be less passive.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The real point that you should have addressed was that even if you brought in a coach that addressed all of the problems you had with Brown this year (inconsistent lineups, minutes and public criticism), this collection of talent would still have problems with distributing touches and minutes, as well as managing egos. Thats because all of these players have been unable to shake these problems wherever they've been. You say that you can and should blame some of the problem on Isiah? Not some, but the majority of the blame should be with Thomas. You're understandably angry that Brown has allowed this team to be possibly the worst in the league. But I can't understand why more Knicks fans aren't angry that this team, with its huge payroll and amount of hype, has a ceiling of about 4 or 5 games better than it has been so far.</div>
It?s really not as hard as it seems distributing touches and minutes. Brown never plays the people that actually produce. The only ego the Knicks had to deal with was Stephon Marbury and that was because Brown, on countless occasions, trashed Marbury in the media. I honestly think the Knicks would be good for 30+ wins had they been coached properly.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't buy into Brown actually wanting Marbury and Francis at the same time. And I don't believe that he would have wanted Isiah to trade the Hardaway and Davis contracts, which would have given him him the oppurtunity to bring his own type of players. He may have communicated a "wishlist," but if Isiah were a competent GM he would have had a limit to how much he was willing to give up for those players. I'm sure Brown would have understood. Unfortunately Isiah has never shown patience (something necessary for a rebuilding team), and if its true, like you say, that the team will make moves this year, than I have a hard time blaming Brown for anything that happens the next few seasons.</div>
Well, who really knows? Brown said it himself so I think it?s pretty valid. I doubt it was just lip service, because Brown has never had a problem addressing the media about ANYTHING. There were some talks for Ratliff and Patterson, two Brown players, but the Blazers wanted expiring contracts, draft picks, and David Lee. Obviously the Knicks should have pulled out. The other Larry Brown player was Earl Watson, but he went to Seattle. The other player on the Knicks radar was Francis, not a first choice of Brown, but he did want Steve. He actually said he was a big fan of Steve. It depends what type of moves the Knicks make. If they make a blockbuster and acquire some of the rumored players (ex: Garnett, O?Neal) there future might not be as bad as it seems right now. Either way, I, and the rest of the Knick fans are prepared for whatever after experiencing this season.