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Fine people on both sides. Surely 7 in 10 Americans are not violent right wing nazi types.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/16/why-is-the-us-still-fighting-the-civil-war

Lowndes says: “They are presented as being part of a continuous heritage, but the idea that these symbols have anything to do with anything but racial reaction is wrong.”

Not everyone agrees with this assessment – in particular, contemporary white Americans. According to the American Values Survey by not-for-profit polling organisation PRRI, around seven in 10 working-class whites believe that the flag is a symbol of “southern pride” rather than “racism”. Sixty percent of whites of all classes feel this way, and so do 51% of Americans as a whole – whereas 80% of black Americans say it is a racist symbol, and it is African Americans fighting for racial justice who have been the foremost critics of confederate symbols since they were erected.
 
The news today on CNN is 24/7 "the wall" and "government shutdown looming."
 
Denny Crane said:
Trump turned that around with his speech in Phoenix.
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I heard the speech, he turned nothing around, same old schpiel.....evil media....crooked blah, blah, blah...toxic governor....lies about crowd size...next up...his speech in Mexico......he's not funding his wall and to prove his point, he'll probably let govt shut down.....soldiers will not get checks, not their families if that happens...he's lied about defeating ISIS in 90 days after the election....they are now in Afghanistan regrouping...Trump has no healthcare support, no infrastructure funding, no wall funding, no friends in Congress, the Senate or the world....how you see his stump speech as turning it around is sort of baffling....same old script.
 
If I think someone or organization is lying 24/7 personally, I tune them out if they're media....when it's the president, I pay attention.
 
I find the buffoonery by the CNN anchors and talking heads as they destroy their own integrity to be fascinating.
 
Denny Crane said:
Fine people on both sides. Surely 7 in 10 Americans are not violent right wing nazi types.
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See if 7 in 10 working class white Americans would march with neo Nazis, as the people on the neo Nazi side that Trump praised as "fine people" did.
 
Minstrel said:
See if 7 in 10 working class white Americans would march with neo Nazis, as the people on the neo Nazi side that Trump praised as "fine people" did.
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6 in 10 do not want the statues removed.

Fine people on both sides.

Or is it you who wants to equate those 6 in 10 with nazis?
 
Denny Crane said:
6 in 10 do not want the statues removed.
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How many of them would march with neo Nazis? Fine people can not want the statues removed, but fine people don't march with neo Nazis.
 
Minstrel said:
How many of them would march with neo Nazis? Fine people can not want the statues removed, but fine people don't march with neo Nazis.
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We don't know because the media is selectively showing only Nazis and other bigots, and only the same couple dozen at that.
 
Denny Crane said:
We don't know because the media is selectively showing only Nazis and other bigots, and only the same couple dozen at that.
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I'm talking about the people in the polls you're citing. We know that all the people in that march were willing to march with neo Nazis, because they did.

As I said, you can be a fine person and respond to a poll that you don't want the statues taken down. You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged.
 
Minstrel said:
I'm talking about the people in the polls you're citing. We know that all the people in that march were willing to march with neo Nazis, because they did.

As I said, you can be a fine person and respond to a poll that you don't want the statues taken down. You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged.
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You are equating the fine people who don't want statues taken down with Nazis.

Figures.

Kinda two-faced.

Well, not kinda.
 
Whatever you say, pal. In fact, this is what you said:

"You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged."

It's just wrong. And you are equating fine people with neo Nazis.
 
Denny Crane said:
"You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged."

It's just wrong.
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If you want to throw in with people who associate with neo Nazis, that's your prerogative.

You can be a reasonable and decent person and believe that the statues don't need to come down. I'd disagree with that position, but I don't think that viewpoint makes one a bad person. Once you decide to associate yourself with neo Nazis by marching with them, you cease your claim to being a fine and decent person. Just common sense unless you don't have a problem with neo Nazis.
 
Denny Crane said:
We don't know because the media is selectively showing only Nazis and other bigots, and only the same couple dozen at that.
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That's what happens when you only watch the TV spin on events.....social media has photos not under CNN's umbrella for example...the folks at that protest have many photos....broaden your research...there are lots of photos not scripted by journalists and I don't really believe all these journalist conspiracy theories either....I'm sure there are a few bad ones and a lot of good ones....but you only point out those bad ones.....double standard?
 
Minstrel said:
If you want to throw in with people who associate with neo Nazis, that's your prerogative.

You can be a reasonable and decent person and believe that the statues don't need to come down. I'd disagree with that position, but I don't think that viewpoint makes one a bad person. Once you decide to associate yourself with neo Nazis by marching with them, you cease your claim to being a fine and decent person. Just common sense unless you don't have a problem with neo Nazis.
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You did.

"You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged."
 
riverman said:
That's what happens when you only watch the TV spin on events.....social media has photos not under CNN's umbrella for example...the folks at that protest have many photos....broaden your research...there are lots of photos not scripted by journalists and I don't really believe all these journalist conspiracy theories either....I'm sure there are a few bad ones and a lot of good ones....but you only point out those bad ones.....double standard?
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I have broadened my research.

I've written that I don't know which people Trump was talking about. There may have been people who want the statue to remain who participated, who weren't of the racist kind.
 
Denny Crane said:
"You can't be a fine person if you march with neo Nazis, as Trump alleged."
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Yes. That's a statement that I think most Americans would agree with. I doubt most people would answer a poll question like, "Do you believe that good people march with neo Nazis?" with a yes.
 
Minstrel said:
Yes. That's a statement that I think most Americans would agree with. I doubt most people would answer a poll question like, "Do you believe that good people march with neo Nazis?" with a yes.
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I think the two aren't linked at all.

Nazis don't like taxes, you don't like taxes. Therefore you are a Nazi.

It's more of your shitty logic.
 
I think the two aren't linked at all.

Nazis don't like taxes, you don't like taxes. Therefore you are a Nazi.

It's more of your shitty logic.

All it means is you don't like taxes.
 
Denny Crane said:
I think the two aren't linked at all.

Nazis don't like taxes, you don't like taxes. Therefore you are a Nazi.

It's more of your shitty logic.

All it means is you don't like taxes.
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If North Korea invades Arkansas I wouldn't march with no gosh darned neo Nazis. Nope, if they're against North Korea I'm fer em.
 
Slavery and The Confederacy may be a part of our history but it's not something we should be proud of and those statues belong in museums not in front of government buildings or in public parks. They are a symbol of oppression to many Americans and I think it's safe to say many white people (the 6 in 10 who want to keep the statues up) don't have a clue what it's like to deal with that oppression on a daily/hourly/constant basis.

And that doesn't even address the "culture" Trump says we're losing by removing the statues... WTF is that supposed to mean? The culture of systemic racism? The culture of putting memorials in place to intimidate people of color after Jim Crow? What important culture are we trying to preserve?!?
 
The mayor of New Orleans made a good point when he noted that New Orleans has about 300 years of history and the Confederacy is a tiny, tiny part of that history (about 4 years). Yet, somehow, it's become the entirety of "Southern heritage" or "Southern culture" for some. There's far more history to celebrate, so why put the focus on a tiny sliver that also happens to be the most divisive sliver? New Orleans can celebrate and memorialize plenty of New Orelans and Southern history without the need for statues of Confederate icons.
 
Minstrel said:
The mayor of New Orleans made a good point when he noted that New Orleans has about 300 years of history and the Confederacy is a tiny, tiny part of that history (about 4 years). Yet, somehow, it's become the entirety of "Southern heritage" or "Southern culture" for some. There's far more history to celebrate, so why put the focus on a tiny sliver that also happens to be the most divisive sliver? New Orleans can celebrate and memorialize plenty of New Orelans and Southern history without the need for statues of Confederate icons.
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I look forward to seeing the statues of Bourbon Street drunks (maybe they'll choose me as the model!).

barfo
 
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