Steve Duin Calls Out GO: Bust

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Maybe he's trying to light a fire under Greg.. It doesn't hurt to try.
 
I think they are soft because frankly they don't know how else to be with the bad luck we've had recently with injuries. Everyone is afraid the bigs are going to crumple the next time they step on the floor, that we are not going to let them out there. In some ways... we may be creating more of a problem by being that way. I have a 2 year old and after numerous boo boo kisses she started pointing to things that were obviously not in pain (a freckle) in obvious distress. By being too responsive to owies... I help create ones that don't exist.

What worries me about Oden... is that he has really never been on his feet and legs long enough to get them to adjust to the NBA. You can't do that in a month... you can't do it in two... it takes a good half year of being on the floor to get everything to in tune... and thereafter if you take breaks it comes back pretty fast... but I am not sure Oden has ever been in the kind so shape he needs to be because of all his numerous injuries. So I guess in that respect... I can understand why they are being careful with him. Joel? He has already proven his body can take a beating.
 
What ever happened to calling a spade a spade?

According to dictionary.com a "bust" is something that "declines in value...is not worth what it was once was...to collapse from the strain of....a failure..."

So, my question would be, knowing what we know now, compared to draft night, does Greg have less value than the #1 pick?

I think "bust" fits perfectly.
 
Targus said:
So, my question would be, knowing what we know now, compared to draft night, does Greg have less value than the #1 pick?

I think "bust" fits perfectly.
Click to expand...

Using the "declining in value" definition is pretty simplistic. Roy has declined in value somewhat over the past couple of seasons due to his injuries. Therefore, he fits the definition of bust. Tim Duncan has declined in value a lot over the past 5 years. Textbook bust.

The common sports concept of a bust is a player who underperforms his perceived potential by a wide margin in his career. Oden has and hasn't through his first couple of seasons...when on the court, he's been great. His injuries have prevented him from meeting the season-wide impact that was expected. The second one is what will matter when it comes to his career. But a few seasons into his career, when he's all of 22, is a fairly silly point to determine whether he constitutes a bust.
 
What if we're only referring to his "so far" NBA career?


I'm not saying he isn't dominate when he's playing. I am saying that so far, yes, I would say he's a bust.
 
Targus said:
What if we're only referring to his "so far" NBA career?
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This is, of course, entirely the province of opinion but this is mine: considering it's so early in his career AND considering he's played up to expectations when healthy, I would say that he can't be classified as a bust even so far. I would only classify someone as a bust, at any point in their career, when it seemed clear that they are highly unlikely to meet their perceived potential anytime soon.

An example andalusian has used is Kwame Brown...his career is not over, but we can definitely label him a bust. We could do that years ago. But it was clear years ago that he simply was not going to pan out.

I don't think Oden is in that situation at this point in time. If he were a poor player even when healthy, the combination of poor play and poor health would lead me to classify him as a likely bust. In fact, even if he played well but had suffered injuries that were expected to wreck his athleticism, I'd be willing to entertain that he was a busted pick. But when he's played very well and the injuries he suffered are not expected to recur or change his ability, and he's still only 22...I don't think it's at all clear that his potential will forever lie unrealized.

If he suffers yet another major injury this coming season, I'll be willing to believe that he just doesn't have the ability to stay healthy. Which would make him a bust...in the end, you have to play to produce.
 
After four years, Jermaine O'Neal was considered a bust (Sabas reportedly saying, "There's something wrong with his brain") and was traded for a sure thing. Ayone want a do-over on that move?
 
After four years, Jermaine O'Neal was considered a bust (Sabas reportedly saying, "There's something wrong with his brain") and was traded for a sure thing. Ayone want a do-over on that move?
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Me Me Me, there where soo many people ready to say Jermaine was a bust with all of his sprained ankles and relatively poor play and what happens when he got to start and was injury free? He became Six-time NBA All-Star Jermaine O'Neal...STFU and let Greg become an All-Star. Even if he has 3-4 more seasons plagued by injuries he is still not a bust if he gives us 1 Bill Walton type season with a Championship thrown in.. Is Bill Walton a bust or the best center the Blazers ever had?
 
If Portland had drafted Durant, and the Sonics received Oden, and both had the same career thus far in terms of games played, team record, etc., would there be any posters on this board irate that the Blazers didn't draft Oden, and that he is still the right choice?
 
mercykersey said:
Is Bill Walton a bust or the best center the Blazers ever had?
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Darn good question!

BGrantFan said:
If Portland had drafted Durant, and the Sonics received Oden, and both had the same career thus far in terms of games played, team record, etc., would there be any posters on this board irate that the Blazers didn't draft Oden, and that he is still the right choice?
Click to expand...

Yes because Roy or KD would have to be traded due to lack of chemistry and Nate not being able to figure out the offense. And G.O. would be tearing it up, and down backboards because he would have never had gone through MF surgery setting him back :)

Seriously though, can we just look forward to the great season upon us!
 
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if i had a dollar for every unique oden excuse....

and um... what are we looking forward to? odens not close to being ready, camby will get hurt and joel is a question mark. we can look forward to pendergraph setting foul records. they better sign dampier.
 
touche.... if I had a dollar every-time you trolled I'd be $3,597 richer
 
BGrantFan said:
If Portland had drafted Durant, and the Sonics received Oden, and both had the same career thus far in terms of games played, team record, etc., would there be any posters on this board irate that the Blazers didn't draft Oden, and that he is still the right choice?
Click to expand...

Not irate, certainly. Durant's been great. I'd be pretty happy with Durant. I'd probably be happy not to have to worry about Oden's health, but still a little worried about the possibility that Oden will get past the injuries and prove to be a once-a-generation player. I was a believer in Oden's talent while I watched him play for Ohio State, long before I had any idea he'd be a Blazer. At that time, I didn't even consider the possibility.

I've always been a big fan of Durant's game...from an aesthetic standpoint, long and talented wings have been my favourite types of players (Pippen, Jordan, McGrady, Kobe, Batum, etc) and Durant is no exception. But I think a dominant center simply impacts games more, especially if he can play both sides of the ball.
 
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Walton? You want to compare Oden to Walton? Are you kidding me?

Ok, I'll entertain.

Walton is remembered for his outstanding year as much as his injury plagued career. He helped delivery P-towns one and only championship. Walton's injuries were fractures near the ankle where Oden has been mid-foot, knees, wrist, etc. Walton went 6'11 and carried 210 pounds on his frame. Oden is slightly taller but, depending on who you believe, is fifty to sixty pounds heavier. No doubt, working in the paint these days puts more strain on a body then back in the 70's. Consider how much more that strain is multiplied by the additional body weight...

Walton is essentially NOT considered a bust because he delivered a champ. Something Oden hasn't done. When he does, then lets compare. For now, all we have are one season played out of two and a dismal (at best) playoff series.
 
Do you mean to tell me a reporter who doesn't cover any sporting events what-so-ever thinks Oden is a bust?

Did anyone get the dog catcher's opinion?
How about a tug boat captain's?


Really, I couldn't care less what Steve Duin has to say on much of anything much less an opinion on subject he is almost completely ignorant of.
 
Honestly when I read the article in the paper I thought it was a critical reference to the Leadership in this state more so than G.O himself

:dunno:
 
Targus said:
Walton is essentially NOT considered a bust because he delivered a champ. Something Oden hasn't done. When he does, then lets compare.
Click to expand...

mercykersey said:
Even if he has 3-4 more seasons plagued by injuries he is still not a bust if he gives us 1 Bill Walton type season with a Championship thrown in
Click to expand...

The original poster seemed aware that the great championship season is key.
 
At the end of year Walton was 23 - he played in 86 NBA games. The equivalent year for Greg will be the end of the 2010-2011 year (and he already played in 82 NBA games).

Greg's career actually resembles Walton's career so far - especially when you remember that the micro-fracture was a precautionary procedure.
 
I think the national feeling is GO is a bust until proven otherwise.

The presumption on Oden has changed from Oden being a franchise changing player to a bust. Sucks that the perception of Oden's potential has dramatically shifted in such a short time. . . but we are talking about a presumption and something that is not written in stone.

The important thing is Oden still has the opportunity to prove nay sayers wrong . . . and that opportunity gives us Blazer fanstics some excitement going into the season.
 
MIXUM said:
if i had a dollar for every unique oden excuse....

and um... what are we looking forward to? odens not close to being ready, camby will get hurt and joel is a question mark. we can look forward to pendergraph setting foul records. they better sign dampier.
Click to expand...

How old is Oden?
 
MIXUM said:
if i had a dollar for every unique oden excuse....
Click to expand...

If I had a nickel for every unique and well thought out comment that people on here said (who is lurking in the shadows), I'd have enough money to buy a jaw breaker. If it was free.
 
Minstrel said:
Not irate, certainly. Durant's been great. I'd be pretty happy with Durant. I'd probably be happy not to have to worry about Oden's health, but still a little worried about the possibility that Oden will get past the injuries and prove to be a once-a-generation player. I was a believer in Oden's talent while I watched him play for Ohio State, long before I had any idea he'd be a Blazer. At that time, I didn't even consider the possibility.

I've always been a big fan of Durant's game...from an aesthetic standpoint, long and talented wings have been my favourite types of players (Pippen, Jordan, McGrady, Kobe, Batum, etc) and Durant is no exception. But I think a dominant center simply impacts games more, especially if he can play both sides of the ball.
Click to expand...

Specifically though, would you be posting that Oden should have been the pick? This doesn't really apply to you completely, but there are multiple posters who insist that Greg is still the player they would rather have on the Blazers. I just wonder if those posters would hold the same opinion of the pick if Durant was a Blazer, or if the defensiveness that I perceive regarding Oden is more based in that he's a Blazer, and not necessarily the correct pick.
 
BGrantFan said:
Specifically though, would you be posting that Oden should have been the pick? This doesn't really apply to you completely, but there are multiple posters who insist that Greg is still the player they would rather have on the Blazers. I just wonder if those posters would hold the same opinion of the pick if Durant was a Blazer, or if the defensiveness that I perceive regarding Oden is more based in that he's a Blazer, and not necessarily the correct pick.
Click to expand...

Hard to say, simply because I probably wouldn't be watching him and analyzing him as much as I do now (and I'd be watching Durant more). I do think that emotional attachment comes into it.

The only thing that would prevent me from trading Oden straight across for Durant (in an attempt to be as objective as possible) is that Durant is just not a good play-maker for others. He's a very good rebounder and a premium scorer...but a lack of passing excellence prevents him from being a player on the level of a prime Kobe Bryant or a Chris Paul, LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. His rebounding edge over those types of players isn't large enough to make up his passing deficiency.

Right now, I think Durant is a slightly better Carmelo Anthony rather than a Kobe Bryant. I don't think that would be sufficient for a title. Durant's expected value is probably higher going forward than Oden's because he has no health risk...but I consider Oden's ceiling to be higher. I'm willing to trade off the more certain value for a higher upside because to me the championship is the only thing I care about. I'll risk more losses (Oden never stays healthy) for a chance at a championship or two (Oden does have healthy seasons).

If Durant were a Blazer, I might feel differently. I hope not (since that would mean my analysis is not objective enough), but who knows?
 
Minstrel said:
Hard to say, simply because I probably wouldn't be watching him and analyzing him as much as I do now (and I'd be watching Durant more). I do think that emotional attachment comes into it.

The only thing that would prevent me from trading Oden straight across for Durant (in an attempt to be as objective as possible) is that Durant is just not a good play-maker for others. He's a very good rebounder and a premium scorer...but a lack of passing excellence prevents him from being a player on the level of a prime Kobe Bryant or a Chris Paul, LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. His rebounding edge over those types of players isn't large enough to make up his passing deficiency.

Right now, I think Durant is a slightly better Carmelo Anthony rather than a Kobe Bryant. I don't think that would be sufficient for a title. Durant's expected value is probably higher going forward than Oden's because he has no health risk...but I consider Oden's ceiling to be higher. I'm willing to trade off the more certain value for a higher upside because to me the championship is the only thing I care about. I'll risk more losses (Oden never stays healthy) for a chance at a championship or two (Oden does have healthy seasons).

If Durant were a Blazer, I might feel differently. I hope not (since that would mean my analysis is not objective enough), but who knows?
Click to expand...

You bring up some very good points about Durant, except I think he is a better rebounder, ball handler, and defender than Carmelo Anthony. Young Kobe Bryant, to me, is actually a valid comparison, except that Durant is much more advanced at 21 than Bryant was in terms of leadership. If you remember, the biggest complaint about Bryant was his ballhogging, and how he did not make his teammates better. He had Shaq to mask that weakness during those glory years, but after Shaq was traded, Bryant flat-out missed the playoffs one year, and the others ended up in disappointment, in part, because of Bryant's inability to raise the level of play of his teammates.

As it is right now, I put Kevin Durant as the 3rd best player in the entire league behind LeBron James and Kobe Bryant. He is a franchise player, he led Team USA to a world championship, and his game is evolving in front of our eyes. I just don't see Oden having a higher ceiling, but I'm not sweating that you and others do feel that way.
 
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