Steve Nash: Trade to Portland would be a "terrific situation"

[B-Roy]

The point is, Nash was a borderline All-Star on Dallas, and then suddenly became an MVP player in Phoenix. I have always suspected that his inflated numbers were due more to the system and not the player.

Case in point: Raymond Felton

The Mavs had a very good team with Nash, Dirk, and Finley all in their prime and they couldn't win it. What makes you think that team with Nash would have been any better than that team with Jason Kidd?

So how do you explain how Nash is playing after D'Antoni?

 

[RR7]

Dampier didn't directly help, but he was traded for Chandler, who was a huge part of their defense in winning that title.

 

[Natebishop3]

Dampier didn't help get Cuban the ring, smartypants.

As you can tell I hate those who overuse the "winning"! line.

It is trite, bored, obnoxious and essentially worthless. Charlie Sheen is the apex of that mindset. If you aspire to be that - fantastic.

Cuban did an excellent job of correcting his (self-admitted "terrible" mistake).

But it took him 6 years to correct that mistake. The only players left on the Dallas team that finally won the ring were Dirk and Jason Terry. Every other player was changed, so the team had to be rebuilt in order to win the ring after the Dampier for Nash fiasco.

WTF are you talking about? Where did I say "winning" or quote Charlie Sheen?

 

[Natebishop3]

So how do you explain how Nash is playing after D'Antoni?

He wasn't playing so hot under Terry Porter, and they had to promote Alvin Gentry who re-implemented the D'Antoni system.

 

[Natebishop3]

So how do you explain how Nash is playing after D'Antoni?

I looked it up. Nash played his worst basketball in Phoenix after D'Antoni left.

PER 19.5 (first time he's dipped below a PER of 20+ since 2000-2001)
9.7 assists per game (first time he had dipped below 10+ apg since joining Phoenix in 2004-2005)

His numbers didn't rebound until Porter was fired and Gentry was promoted.

 

[magnifier661]

I looked it up. Nash played his worst basketball in Phoenix after D'Antoni left.

PER 19.5 (first time he's dipped below a PER of 20+ since 2000-2001)
9.7 assists per game (first time he had dipped below 10+ apg since joining Phoenix in 2004-2005)

His numbers didn't rebound until Porter was fired and Gentry was promoted.

I'd still take that! LOL a PER of 19.5 and 9.7 assists per game is damn sexy!

 

[Natebishop3]

I'd still take that! LOL a PER of 19.5 and 9.7 assists per game is damn sexy!

That was three years ago. The point is, Nash doesn't play as well when he isn't in the SSOL system and we sure as hell don't run that here.

 

[magnifier661]

That was three years ago. The point is, Nash doesn't play as well when he isn't in the SSOL system and we sure as hell don't run that here.

Yeah currently he is giving a 23.4 PER and 10.9 assists per game. Not to mention he is shooting 54% from the field 40% from 3. Felton doesn't even come close to his jock strap.

 

[RR7]

That was three years ago. The point is, Nash doesn't play as well when he isn't in the SSOL system and we sure as hell don't run that here.

But we are playing at the same pace this season that PHX is.

 

[B-Roy]

That was three years ago. The point is, Nash doesn't play as well when he isn't in the SSOL system and we sure as hell don't run that here.

He had a 22.6 PER season in Dallas.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Hey, it's not just us message board geeks talking Nash to Portland:

There are a couple voices out there on the NBA grapevine cautioning that the Suns are listening to Nash pitches more than they're letting on, but the overwhelming majority of insiders surveyed by ESPN.com in recent days continue to insist that Nash is going nowhere.

BOO!

That's despite the fact that the Blazers, sources say, are still trying hard to pry Nash away from the Suns.

"Portland," says one source close to the situation, "has been interested in Nash for a while."

Said another: "Because of his age and because he can leave in the summer, offers for Nash haven't been as star-laden as you'd think."

YAY!

Yet even if the Blazers were willing to include the widely coveted Nicolas Batum in a package for Nash -- which is a matter of debate depending on who's doing the gossiping

BOO!

-- sources say Phoenix continues to put out the message that it won't deal Nash unless Nash asks to be traded. Which is something Nash has consistently said he won't do.

Which is why most teams, when polled these days, leave you with the impression that they expect neither Howard nor Nash to be moved before the deadline.

Double BOO!

 

[Natebishop3]

He had a 22.6 PER season in Dallas.

And he averaged roughly 2 more asissts per game in Phoenix. What's your point?

If you look at his stats, he put up better numbers in Phoenix under a different system.

 

[magnifier661]

Batum for Nash isn't good IMO. Batum is the perfect 2 guard for a Nash system. Batum would be able to cover for Nash on the defensive end.

 

[B-Roy]

And he averaged roughly 2 more asissts per game in Phoenix. What's your point?

If you look at his stats, he put up better numbers in Phoenix under a different system.

Raw numbers aren't the only thing that measures a players value.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah currently he is giving a 23.4 PER and 10.9 assists per game. Not to mention he is shooting 54% from the field 40% from 3. Felton doesn't even come close to his jock strap.

Who said Felton comes close to Nash? That's not the issue. The issue is whether Nash will be as effective on our team under McMillan. I'm trying to illustrate the point that players like Felton have seen a dramatic increase in their stats while in the same system as Nash.

 

[magnifier661]

Who said Felton comes close to Nash? That's not the issue. The issue is whether Nash will be as effective on our team under McMillan. I'm trying to illustrate the point that players like Felton have seen a dramatic increase in their stats while in the same system as Nash.

Because you compared the 2 under D'Antoni. I think Nash is much better than Felton, so coming to a "Nate system" won't be as bad.

 

[Natebishop3]

Raw numbers aren't the only thing that measures a players value.

But vague statements about value are a better measuring stick?

 

[magnifier661]

Also, under Porter; Nash had injured Amare.

 

[B-Roy]

But vague statements about value are a better measuring stick?

Who's making vague statements? You seem to be the only one making vague statements about how Nash isn't effective without the SSOL offense. (Which was debunked by Minstrel in the other thread)

 

[Natebishop3]

Because you compared the 2 under D'Antoni. I think Nash is much better than Felton, so coming to a "Nate system" won't be as bad.

The question isn't whether Nash is better than Felton. I don't think anyone would say Felton is a better player than Nash. The issue is whether Nash is worth the assets that would be required to get him, or the cap space this summer to sign him. I'm trying to show that there is a legitimate concern over how Nash would perform under Nate.

 

[magnifier661]

The question isn't whether Nash is better than Felton. I don't think anyone would say Felton is a better player than Nash. The issue is whether Nash is worth the assets that would be required to get him, or the cap space this summer to sign him. I'm trying to show that there is a legitimate concern over how Nash would perform under Nate.

Yes he is as long as we don't give up Batum.

 

[RR7]

Yeah, he won't perform the same under Nate as he did under D'Antoni when he was 32. Is he still a very good outside shooter, GREAT in the pick and roll, and someone who can get us 15 and 8? Absolutely?

i wouldn't give up Batum for him, but I'm not sure what the pointis of saying Nash won't put up the same stats as he did under D'Antoni. Obviously. But he isn't a product of D'Antoni's system, and complete garbage elsewhere. He was a great PG before, and a great one after Mike.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, he won't perform the same under Nate as he did under D'Antoni when he was 32. Is he still a very good outside shooter, GREAT in the pick and roll, and someone who can get us 15 and 8? Absolutely?

i wouldn't give up Batum for him, but I'm not sure what the pointis of saying Nash won't put up the same stats as he did under D'Antoni. Obviously. But he isn't a product of D'Antoni's system, and complete garbage elsewhere. He was a great PG before, and a great one after Mike.

He was not "a great point guard" before D'Antoni. He put up All-Star quality numbers in Dallas, but not the MVP numbers that he did in Phoenix.

 

[B-Roy]

He was not "a great point guard" before D'Antoni. He put up All-Star quality numbers in Dallas, but not the MVP numbers that he did in Phoenix.

????

We just need "all-star" Nash, we don't need (or expect) "MVP" Nash.

It's all just raw numbers anyways. Nash has been more or less the same his entire tenure in Phoenix. Being picky over small changes in raw stats is just stupid.

 

[RR7]

ok. Still not sure what your point is, then. I'd be happy with a PG who can give us 15 and 9, run a great pick and roll, and shoot 40% from 3.

 

[magnifier661]

He was not "a great point guard" before D'Antoni. He put up All-Star quality numbers in Dallas, but not the MVP numbers that he did in Phoenix.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/career_stats.html

Okay look at his stats page. What jumps out at you? Since 1999; Nash has never averaged lower than 46.5% from the field and shot less than 39% from 3. That is amazing!!!!

Then you look at his assists; which has been over 10 all but 08/09, ironically when Amare was injured for the full season.

I just don't know why you have such an issue with Nash? He is 100 times better than Felton and seriously better than Miller. Yikes Nate! What gives man?

 

[Natebishop3]

ok. Still not sure what your point is, then. I'd be happy with a PG who can give us 15 and 9, run a great pick and roll, and shoot 40% from 3.

There's three different arguments in the last few pages of this thread. I started posting about whether Nash would have meant more championships in Dallas if he had stayed. That's why this began...

So, to recap, my points are:

1. I don't believe Nash staying in Dallas would have translated to more championships for the Mavs.

2. Nash plays better in the up-tempo system in Phoenix (which is what I was trying to show with the stats that I listed.)

3. I don't think Nash plays as well in Portland because of our system.

4. I don't want to give up Batum or a large chunk of our cap space to get a 38 year old point guard who may or may not perform well under our coach and our system.

Clear enough for you?

 

[Natebishop3]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/steve_nash/career_stats.html

Okay look at his stats page. What jumps out at you? Since 1999; Nash has never averaged lower than 46.5% from the field and shot less than 39% from 3. That is amazing!!!!

Then you look at his assists; which has been over 10 all but 08/09, ironically when Amare was injured for the full season.

I just don't know why you have such an issue with Nash? He is 100 times better than Felton and seriously better than Miller. Yikes Nate! What gives man?

The assist HAVE ALL COME WHILE IN PHOENIX.

I don't have an issue with Nash. This thread is devoted to Nash. I'm discussing Nash in a Nash thread. I don't know why you keep comparing him to Felton... who is saying Felton is better than Nash?

I have an issue with trading our 23 year old talented wing for a 38 year old point guard.

 

[magnifier661]

The assist HAVE ALL COME WHILE IN PHOENIX.

I don't have an issue with Nash. This thread is devoted to Nash. I'm discussing Nash in a Nash thread. I don't know why you keep comparing him to Felton... who is saying Felton is better than Nash?

I have an issue with trading our 23 year old talented wing for a 38 year old point guard.

Because I would rather have Nash than Felton. What do you think?

And the assists all coming from Phoenix is crazy talk. His prime years were in Phoenix! That's like comparing Jermaine Oneal saying he isn't good because his good years were in Indiana. LOL

 

[RR7]

great. I think only one person really wanted to give up Batum for him.