Suns owner trying to trade Amare on his own

[jwhoops11]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...?slug=aw-sunstrades021109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting story from Yahoo, sorry if this angle has already been posted. The Suns owner is so desperate to cut payroll, he's initiating his own trade talks with teams, undermining Steve Kerr and his trade talks.

 

[ehizzy3]

raef outlaw ike and frye

hahahaha i wish but they all could be expiring..

 

[Miksaid]

If they want to save money, we're the one's they should be looking at. KP MUST be taking advantage of this kind of desperation.

 

[JE]

Sarver's a moron.

 

[hasoos]

He must actually be in some sort of money trouble to be going that far.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Can this be merged with the other thread regarding the Suns/Amare rumor?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is the same columnist that did the hatchet job on Pritchard, isn't it?

 

[ehizzy3]

This is the same columnist that did the hatchet job on Pritchard, isn't it?

the jail blazer one, yes.

 

[JE]

Sarver's on his way to becoming James Dolan, Al Davis, John Y. Brown, you name it. This guy's a retard. Sell the franchise if you need money.

 

[Minstrel]

Wow. The franchise seems to be a mess right now. This is bizarre.

Maybe Amare can be had for not very much outside of expiring money...

 

[drexlersdad]

Wow. The franchise seems to be a mess right now. This is bizarre.

Maybe Amare can be had for not very much outside of expiring money...

my thoughts exactly. raef has the best contract as far as expiring deals go, and can put money in sarvers pocket alot sooner than anyone else.

if we are willing to take any other salary they are eager to shed, we are sitting very pretty in these trade talks.

this trade sheds them of barbosas salary as well, saves them 3 million in straight salary this year, puts a 10 million dollar insurance check in sarvers pocket, and saves him at least another 15 million next year, possibly 20 million if they dont pick up outlaws option.

figuring out what to do with all these bigs can be for another day. as long as we max LMA anyways this summer, i doubt he gives two shits about sharing time for now.

blake
roy
batum
amare
oden

barbosa
rudy
martel
lma
pryz

i know, crazy talk.

 

[ehizzy3]

my thoughts exactly. raef has the best contract as far as expiring deals go, and can put money in sarvers pocket alot sooner than anyone else.

if we are willing to take any other salary they are eager to shed, we are sitting very pretty in these trade talks.

this trade sheds them of barbosas salary as well, saves them 3 million in straight salary this year, puts a 10 million dollar insurance check in sarvers pocket, and saves him at least another 15 million next year, possibly 20 million if they dont pick up outlaws option.

figuring out what to do with all these bigs can be for another day. as long as we max LMA anyways this summer, i doubt he gives two shits about sharing time for now.

blake
roy
batum
amare
oden

barbosa
rudy
martel
lma
pryz

i know, crazy talk.

i think if we could get amare for cheap we should turn around and trade him for devin harris, or tayshaun prince.

 

[Minstrel]

my thoughts exactly. raef has the best contract as far as expiring deals go, and can put money in sarvers pocket alot sooner than anyone else.

Not just that, Portland can also throw in Frye and Diogu for an extra $8 million or so in expiring money. That would be around $20 million in expiring cash. That's a pretty huge chunk of change.

 

[drexlersdad]

i think if we could get amare for cheap we should turn around and trade him for devin harris, or tayshaun prince.

i would be wildly in favor of that.

 

[ehizzy3]

i would be wildly in favor of that.

i would be willing to get rid of 2 of these 3 to get harris. batum, bayless, and rudy. prince i would likely just want to get rid of one(rudy)

 

[PapaG]

Odd that Memphis would be mentioned as a suitor, isn't it?

 

[Minstrel]

Odd that Memphis would be mentioned as a suitor, isn't it?

Sarver sounds desperate, probably cold-calling everyone. Memphis has cap room, so could absorb Amare without Phoenix having to take salary back.

 

[oldmangrouch]

This is the same columnist that did the hatchet job on Pritchard, isn't it?

Yep. Makes you wonder how much of this is just wild speculation.

 

[MikeDC]

People need to understand, when considering a trade here, just how finance in the NBA works. A few points.
1. You still have to pay the salary of expiring contracts, so they don't constitute any real savings.

2. Raef's contract is 80% insured, but the season is like 60% over. That means if the Suns traded for Raef right this minute, his remaining salary would be $4.2M, of which insurance would pick up the tab for $3.4M or so. Still nice, but that's not the biggest way the Suns could realize savings.

3. The Suns stand to make a much bigger financial turnaround by getting under the luxury tax. They're currently something like $4.8M over the tax threshold. That means they are going to not only have to pay that salary, but pay $4.8M to the league on top of it. And finally, it means the team won't receive a share of the escrow and luxury tax distributions from the league. Last year these amounted to about $8.5M per team under the tax. It will probably be a bit less this year, but still substantial.

To simplify, this means that if a team can fashion a trade with the Suns that shaves a little under $5M off the Suns' team salary, they stand to benefit by something like $13M.
a. The Suns won't have to pay as much salary over the rest of the year. This figures to be about $3.3M in savings.
b. The won't have to pay $5M in tax to the league.
c. The Suns will get several million - probably on the order of $4-8M if history is a guide - in cash from the league.

So that's a cash turnaround of something like $12-16M dollars.

That's a pretty big turnaround. To put it in perspective, that's as much as a very good player costs, and more than the annual operating income of most of the league's teams. In short, it's an amount of money that even the wealthiest teams would consider carefully, and a an amount of money that could really make a big difference to a team facing a serious cash problem.

It's my belief, after reading up on everything, that the winning bid for Amare is going to be one that gets the Suns under the luxury tax. I'm sure they'll require some talent back too, but in the grand scheme of things, that's the secondary consideration.

 

[Samuel]

I feel bad for Steve Kerr, he seems like a reasonable guy who doesn't deserve being stepped on.

 

[alex42083]

I feel bad for Steve Kerr, he seems like a reasonable guy who doesn't deserve being stepped on.

I feel a little more sorry for Terry. He stepped into an impossible situation with players who could care less about defense, and then he loses his best defensive player. His players have already started tuning him out, and it's not fair for him.
Phoenix is a mess right now, and they're going to be the odd team out on missing the playoffs I think.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

That team is a mess. They have no young prospects. They have a cheap owner. Their core is OLD. The future is definitely bleak in the Vally of the Sun.

 

[Samuel]

I feel a little more sorry for Terry. He stepped into an impossible situation with players who could care less about defense, and then he loses his best defensive player. His players have already started tuning him out, and it's not fair for him.
Phoenix is a mess right now, and they're going to be the odd team out on missing the playoffs I think.

To be fair, Terry should have realized that the team was built on the premise of the X-seconds or less offense. After being convinced for years that the D'Antoni's system was correct, the players weren't about to consider defense as a possibility. Faced with that, Terry should have simply kept the system status quo until Nash et al were moved and/or retired, and he had some pieces that would perk an ear to the notion of defense.

Plus, I mean... he's dealing with some serious personalities on that team. Between Shaq, Nash and Stoudemire, the three of them have more NBA-credibility than Terry ever did. Not that Terry needed to have as much success in the league per se, but these guys have played under three of the most influential coaches in NBA history; they weren't about to listen.

 

[Samuel]

Sarver needs Billy Beane to run the show down there. He'd have cashed in their talent for picks, prospects and cash flexibility years ago, a la Presti.

 

[PapaG]

To be fair, Terry should have realized that the team was built on the premise of the X-seconds or less offense. After being convinced for years that the D'Antoni's system was correct, the players weren't about to consider defense as a possibility. Faced with that, Terry should have simply kept the system status quo until Nash et al were moved and/or retired, and he had some pieces that would perk an ear to the notion of defense.

Plus, I mean... he's dealing with some serious personalities on that team. Between Shaq, Nash and Stoudemire, the three of them have more NBA-credibility than Terry ever did. Not that Terry needed to have as much success in the league per se, but these guys have played under three of the most influential coaches in NBA history; they weren't about to listen.

Shaq, of course, but Nash has never been to a Finals, and "STAT" is overhyped by the NBA.

 

[alex42083]

To be fair, Terry should have realized that the team was built on the premise of the X-seconds or less offense. After being convinced for years that the D'Antoni's system was correct, the players weren't about to consider defense as a possibility. Faced with that, Terry should have simply kept the system status quo until Nash et al were moved and/or retired, and he had some pieces that would perk an ear to the notion of defense.

Plus, I mean... he's dealing with some serious personalities on that team. Between Shaq, Nash and Stoudemire, the three of them have more NBA-credibility than Terry ever did. Not that Terry needed to have as much success in the league per se, but these guys have played under three of the most influential coaches in NBA history; they weren't about to listen.

I don't think Terry could've kept the D'Antoni system going with Shaq there. Kerr wanted to emphasize defense more, and it was his philosophy that budded heads with D'Antoni. They didn't want to run and gun anymore, rather they wanted to go through Shaq and Amare.
Sure, Kerr seems like a cool dude when he was analyzing games for TNT, but he's the most to blame for dismantling one of the more exciting franchises in the league.

 

[Natebishop3]

If we can get Amare and Barbosa, I would seriously consider it.

 

[free_lafrentz]

If we can get Amare and Barbosa, I would seriously consider it.

Raef, JB, Webster, LMA

for Amare and Barbosa?

i'd give it a look too.

 

[drexlersdad]

People need to understand, when considering a trade here, just how finance in the NBA works. A few points.
1. You still have to pay the salary of expiring contracts, so they don't constitute any real savings.

2. Raef's contract is 80% insured, but the season is like 60% over. That means if the Suns traded for Raef right this minute, his remaining salary would be $4.2M, of which insurance would pick up the tab for $3.4M or so. Still nice, but that's not the biggest way the Suns could realize savings.

3. The Suns stand to make a much bigger financial turnaround by getting under the luxury tax. They're currently something like $4.8M over the tax threshold. That means they are going to not only have to pay that salary, but pay $4.8M to the league on top of it. And finally, it means the team won't receive a share of the escrow and luxury tax distributions from the league. Last year these amounted to about $8.5M per team under the tax. It will probably be a bit less this year, but still substantial.

To simplify, this means that if a team can fashion a trade with the Suns that shaves a little under $5M off the Suns' team salary, they stand to benefit by something like $13M.
a. The Suns won't have to pay as much salary over the rest of the year. This figures to be about $3.3M in savings.
b. The won't have to pay $5M in tax to the league.
c. The Suns will get several million - probably on the order of $4-8M if history is a guide - in cash from the league.

So that's a cash turnaround of something like $12-16M dollars.

That's a pretty big turnaround. To put it in perspective, that's as much as a very good player costs, and more than the annual operating income of most of the league's teams. In short, it's an amount of money that even the wealthiest teams would consider carefully, and a an amount of money that could really make a big difference to a team facing a serious cash problem.

It's my belief, after reading up on everything, that the winning bid for Amare is going to be one that gets the Suns under the luxury tax. I'm sure they'll require some talent back too, but in the grand scheme of things, that's the secondary consideration.

denver still has their large trade exception from the camby deal, they could most likely satisfy phoenix with that and a player or two.

 

[MikeDC]

denver still has their large trade exception from the camby deal, they could most likely satisfy phoenix with that and a player or two.

Perhaps, but further compounding the problem is that doing so would push the Nuggets over the luxury tax themselves, which, of course, would cost them $10M or so just like it would save the Blazers. So they probably wouldn't do that.

So the options are pretty limited. You probably need a third team that's under the cap (Memphis?) or at least has an exception and plenty of room before they hit the cap threshold.