Suns owner trying to trade Amare on his own

[drexlersdad]

Perhaps, but further compounding the problem is that doing so would push the Nuggets over the luxury tax themselves, which, of course, would cost them $10M or so just like it would save the Blazers. So they probably wouldn't do that.

So the options are pretty limited. You probably need a third team that's under the cap (Memphis?) or at least has an exception and plenty of room before they hit the cap threshold.

well. i for one am not all that excited about amare, i would rather stand pat than bring him in for lma. i would love for memphis to get him, they would be horrible still, and he would bolt in FA.

 

[MikeDC]

well. i for one am not all that excited about amare, i would rather stand pat than bring him in for lma. i would love for memphis to get him, they would be horrible still, and he would bolt in FA.

Could just be that Memphis takes on a peripheral player to make salaries work. If Portland were willing to had another $5M to their Luxury tax bill, how would you feel about this?

Blazers trade: Raef, Sergio, Outlaw, Diogu
Blazers get: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni

Bulls trade: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni, Thomas
Bulls get: Amare, JRich, Sergio, Amundson

Suns trade: Amare, JRich, Amundson
Suns get: Thomas, Outlaw, Diogu, LaFrentz

Financially this trade gets the Suns under the tax, resulting in the big savings I talk about above, while not putting the Bulls over the tax.

The Blazers are already over the tax, so the escrow and tax disbursements are lost to them anyway. They do have to pay extra cash in the form of more tax and more salary however. I've heard Paul Allen is good for that, but everyone has their limits. I dunno.

And it satisfies the Blazers desire for a PG. I don't know if you're going to do better than Kirk.

 

[maxiep]

People need to understand, when considering a trade here, just how finance in the NBA works. A few points.
1. You still have to pay the salary of expiring contracts, so they don't constitute any real savings.

2. Raef's contract is 80% insured, but the season is like 60% over. That means if the Suns traded for Raef right this minute, his remaining salary would be $4.2M, of which insurance would pick up the tab for $3.4M or so. Still nice, but that's not the biggest way the Suns could realize savings.

3. The Suns stand to make a much bigger financial turnaround by getting under the luxury tax. They're currently something like $4.8M over the tax threshold. That means they are going to not only have to pay that salary, but pay $4.8M to the league on top of it. And finally, it means the team won't receive a share of the escrow and luxury tax distributions from the league. Last year these amounted to about $8.5M per team under the tax. It will probably be a bit less this year, but still substantial.

To simplify, this means that if a team can fashion a trade with the Suns that shaves a little under $5M off the Suns' team salary, they stand to benefit by something like $13M.
a. The Suns won't have to pay as much salary over the rest of the year. This figures to be about $3.3M in savings.
b. The won't have to pay $5M in tax to the league.
c. The Suns will get several million - probably on the order of $4-8M if history is a guide - in cash from the league.

So that's a cash turnaround of something like $12-16M dollars.

That's a pretty big turnaround. To put it in perspective, that's as much as a very good player costs, and more than the annual operating income of most of the league's teams. In short, it's an amount of money that even the wealthiest teams would consider carefully, and a an amount of money that could really make a big difference to a team facing a serious cash problem.

It's my belief, after reading up on everything, that the winning bid for Amare is going to be one that gets the Suns under the luxury tax. I'm sure they'll require some talent back too, but in the grand scheme of things, that's the secondary consideration.

Please post on our board more often.

 

[maxiep]

Could just be that Memphis takes on a peripheral player to make salaries work. If Portland were willing to had another $5M to their Luxury tax bill, how would you feel about this?

Blazers trade: Raef, Sergio, Outlaw, Diogu
Blazers get: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni

Bulls trade: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni, Thomas
Bulls get: Amare, JRich, Sergio, Amundson

Suns trade: Amare, JRich, Amundson
Suns get: Thomas, Outlaw, Diogu, LaFrentz

Financially this trade gets the Suns under the tax, resulting in the big savings I talk about above, while not putting the Bulls over the tax.

The Blazers are already over the tax, so the escrow and tax disbursements are lost to them anyway. They do have to pay extra cash in the form of more tax and more salary however. I've heard Paul Allen is good for that, but everyone has their limits. I dunno.

And it satisfies the Blazers desire for a PG. I don't know if you're going to do better than Kirk.

For that price, we need to get Deng. And that's been the sticking point. We view Kirk's salary as doing a favor to the Bulls whereas the Bulls view Hinrich as having real value. We were hot and heavy last week, but the ardor has cooled because Pax right now won't give up Deng to dump Kirk's contract. It remains to be seen if Reinsdorf steps in and tells Paxson to pull the trigger for the same financial reasons Sarver wants to dump Amare.

 

[Tortimer]

Could just be that Memphis takes on a peripheral player to make salaries work. If Portland were willing to had another $5M to their Luxury tax bill, how would you feel about this?

Blazers trade: Raef, Sergio, Outlaw, Diogu
Blazers get: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni

Bulls trade: Hinrich, Gooden, Nocioni, Thomas
Bulls get: Amare, JRich, Sergio, Amundson

Suns trade: Amare, JRich, Amundson
Suns get: Thomas, Outlaw, Diogu, LaFrentz

Financially this trade gets the Suns under the tax, resulting in the big savings I talk about above, while not putting the Bulls over the tax.

The Blazers are already over the tax, so the escrow and tax disbursements are lost to them anyway. They do have to pay extra cash in the form of more tax and more salary however. I've heard Paul Allen is good for that, but everyone has their limits. I dunno.

And it satisfies the Blazers desire for a PG. I don't know if you're going to do better than Kirk.

I might be wrong but I don't think KP would give up LaFrenz and Outlaw plus throw in Sergio for Hinrich.

 

[Natebishop3]

I might be wrong but I don't think KP would give up LaFrenz and Outlaw plus throw in Sergio for Hinrich.

And then the Suns give up Amare and JRich and get... basically nothing.

 

[MikeDC]

Please post on our board more often.

Can do!

For that price, we need to get Deng. And that's been the sticking point. We view Kirk's salary as doing a favor to the Bulls whereas the Bulls view Hinrich as having real value. We were hot and heavy last week, but the ardor has cooled because Pax right now won't give up Deng to dump Kirk's contract. It remains to be seen if Reinsdorf steps in and tells Paxson to pull the trigger for the same financial reasons Sarver wants to dump Amare.

Not gonna happen. The Bulls don't need any "favors" done for them, and they sure aren't going to give up Deng just to dump Kirk. I've pretty consistently read that Kirk can fetch an expiring contract in a NY minute, so there's really no reason we'd throw in Deng. I've also read (from non-Bulls sources) that KP likes Kirk as a player. If he's determined to get a better, more veteran point in there, I don't see many other options.

I might be wrong but I don't think KP would give up LaFrenz and Outlaw plus throw in Sergio for Hinrich.

Hard to say, but at the end of the day, the Blazers are going to have to bite the bullet and consolidate several of these guys or they're just going to walk for nothing. I don't see any role on your team for Sergio whatsoever. Outlaw is clearly a polarizing figure and you've got so many other options at the 3 and 4 that I don't see how he stays. And truthfully, I don't see any more obvious fits out there than Kirk. I wouldn't be wild about Noc being thrown in, but he has his uses.

And then the Suns give up Amare and JRich and get... basically nothing.

They get Tyrus, Outlaw, probably a pick thrown on top, and something like $15M in positive cash flow. I seriously doubt any other team coughs up more.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Steve Kerr offered Amare to Memphis for Rudy Gay/Mike Conley/Hakeem Warrick but was rejected.