Suppose Blake went down (MERGED)

[Rastapopoulos]

Obvious to who, and based on what?

People who are actually watching him play. Based on watching him play.

His per 36 is right in line with Steve in most categories, higher in some, lower in others, but most people felt Blake was a point guard.

And most people felt he was an average-to-less-than-average one.

Arm chair scouts who KNOW what potential players have, without ever doing anything but watching their 2 to 3 minutes of junk time a game make me laugh. Your opinion based on a few biased minutes of play time unfortunately does not stand as proof of reality.

So minutes are biased now?

I would be willing to bet you a lot of money that Bayless's performance in Summer League has got the Blazers' brass very agitated.

You know what makes me laugh? People who persist in thinking that you can learn to be a PG after you get into the NBA. I laugh at the idea that the Sixers are considering starting Louis Williams, or that Monta Ellis could ever be a PG.

 

[LOTBfan]

So minutes are biased now?

Yes indeed

Bias: A statistical sampling or testing error caused by systematically favoring some outcomes over others.

taking garbage minutes and using that as proof of potential is not logical.

I never said that he would become an NBA point guard, just as I never said that we needed one. But thanks for jumping in.

FWIW, find me a post anywhere where I stated Blake as good, or that I would prefer Bayless over him... I'll buy you a beer at a game if you can.

I wouldn't take your bet, I agree

 

[The Professional Fan]

Obvious to who, and based on what? His per 36 is right in line with Steve in most categories, higher in some, lower in others, but most people felt Blake was a point guard.

Arm chair scouts who KNOW what potential players have, without ever doing anything but watching their 2 to 3 minutes of junk time a game make me laugh. Your opinion based on a few biased minutes of play time unfortunately does not stand as proof of reality.

That's an idiotic thing to say. I'm a fucking season ticket holder. I don't miss a game. Ever. Road or home. I like Bayless, I just don't trust him to run the team in NATE'S offense. Nate doesn't even trust him. What makes you so much fucking smarter than Nate?

 

[LameR]

I'm glad I form all of my opinions based off of one year of limited playing time and 3 summer league games.

 

[LOTBfan]

That's an idiotic thing to say. I'm a fucking season ticket holder. I don't miss a game. Ever. Road or home. I like Bayless, I just don't trust him to run the team in NATE'S offense. Nate doesn't even trust him. What makes you so much fucking smarter than Nate?

I guess your season tickets make you more qualified to pass judgement than my season tickets do, as does your colorful language. I think you need to take a valium and work on reading comprehension for a bit... you supported my statement with your own post.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Suppose Blake went down

He isn't.

If Blake went down, Portland could get some scrub old free agent point guard who could easily replace what Blake brings to the table.

Or play a Rudy/Roy back court.

Blake is pretty unimportant to the team, as evidenced last year when he went down and the team didn't miss a beat.

Watch much basketball?

 

[The Professional Fan]

I guess your season tickets make you more qualified to pass judgement than my season tickets do, as does your colorful language. I think you need to take a valium and work on reading comprehension for a bit... you supported my statement with your own post.

No, didn't say that. You accused me of not watching but 2 or 3 minutes of junk time. You were wrong.

And for good measure: FUCK. Colorful, no?

 

[tester551]

Yes... and distribute to... whom?

Look at the Blazers roster. There's no significant talent there. Are there any former first rounders other than Bayless? Even considering draft position is not foolproof when looking at talent, the team is pretty weak without many shooters.

Ed O.

this is a completely BOGUS argument. If you are watching the games, Pooh is playing with the exact same cast of players - but at least he can somewhat run the team.

Why is it that when ever Pooh is playing PG, the team appears to play better? Answer - Because Bayless is NOT a PG. He is a SG in the mold of Ben Gordon.

 

[Minstrel]

No, didn't say that. You accused me of not watching but 2 or 3 minutes of junk time. You were wrong.

I'm pretty sure the "their" in "watching their 2 to 3 minutes of junk time a game make me laugh" referred to the player. In other words, he's saying you're judging Bayless' potential on the junk time minutes Bayless got, not that you only watched junk time minutes.

 

[Minstrel]

Why is it that when ever Pooh is playing PG, the team appears to play better?

Because point guard is the only position Jeter has played, whereas Bayless has been asked to play the lead guard role both in Arizona and his first season in Portland, such as it was.

Bayless is rebuilding his game. It might take more than three games.

 

[bigbailes]

i admit i never watched bayless play in HS but i've seen him at UA, last summer, last season and know this summer and he has shown very little as a PG. i just don't see where you continue making excuses for this guy over and over again. i stand by my opinion that the #1 need for this team is still a PG, with a b/u 4 as the next pressing and a SF as a distant third.

 

[tester551]

Because point guard is the only position Jeter has played, whereas Bayless has been asked to play the lead guard role both in Arizona and his first season in Portland, such as it was.

Bayless is rebuilding his game. It might take more than three games.

If a guy has PG skills and vision, he just doesn't "loose it" when he plays the 2 and is asked to score instead of create. Sure, it is a little bit different mindset - but it is a great skill to exploit even if you are a "scoring" 2.

Jerryd just doesn't have the playmaking skills or the vision to be a PG in this league.

 

[Minstrel]

If a guy has PG skills and vision, he just doesn't "loose it" when he plays the 2 and is asked to score instead of create.

He's not a "pure point guard." Neither is/was Tony Parker, Stephon Marbury or, for that matter, LeBron James when he entered the league as a "point guard." I don't think anyone is saying that Bayless is or will be a point guard in the John Stockton or Steve Nash mold. The question is, can he be a play-maker that helps this team win? I think that is very attainable...his slashing ability is elite (even in his disappointing "lost season" last year, he was one of the best in the league at drawing fouls) so if he has even a modicum of vision and decision-making, he can be a very effective drive-and-dish play-maker. In addition, playing next to Roy, he'll never need to be the full-time distributor, he'll share that with Roy. A large part of the game, he'll just need to play off the ball and defend, both of which he has the tools to do.

I don't think he'll ever be a point guard who can pound the ball into the floor at the top of the key or on the wing, direct traffic and create baskets for his teammates like that. But Portland doesn't need him to be that in order to make him a successful point guard for them.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I can't believe people think Channing Frye is a dud. They are judging the guy based on a few minutes in garbage time! It's true, even when Outlaw was at his worst he got minutes over Frye...but Nate is clearly an idiot. There is no possibility he saw something in practice to indicate Frye didn't deserve playing time!



Look, I was on the "give Bayless minutes" bandwagon for quite awhile last season. I finally had to stop and look at reality: Sergio stunk and Blake was a raging mediocrity....and Bayless STILL couldn't earn any minutes. The fans may only have a "small sample size" to judge - but the coaches saw him *every freakin' day* in practice, and concluded he couldn't play. (at least not PG)

You can do it all season long...it won't feel any better.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's the thing: if Bayless has an NBA skill it's penetrating and scoring. It isn't running a team. Why are we hoping he'll acquire a skill that, when he's using it, takes away from what he does best? Why can't we trade him for somebody who is a better "fit"? Did the Bulls try to make Ben Gordon into a PG? Are the Warriors seriously thinking that Monta Ellis is their PG of the future? Iverson racked up plenty of assists in his time, but they saw pretty quickly (despite him logging entire seasons, heavy minutes at the 1) that he would never be a PG. It's a waste! Free Bayless from these unrealistic expectations!

I have a sad feeling that they're only trying to do this because his value around the league has sunk to the extent that we can't get anything for him of remote use.

 

[Minstrel]

I can't believe people think Channing Frye is a dud. They are judging the guy based on a few minutes in garbage time! It's true, even when Outlaw was at his worst he got minutes over Frye...but Nate is clearly an idiot. There is no possibility he saw something in practice to indicate Frye didn't deserve playing time!



Look, I was on the "give Bayless minutes" bandwagon for quite awhile last season. I finally had to stop and look at reality: Sergio stunk and Blake was a raging mediocrity....and Bayless STILL couldn't earn any minutes. The fans may only have a "small sample size" to judge - but the coaches saw him *every freakin' day* in practice, and concluded he couldn't play. (at least not PG)

You can do it all season long...it won't feel any better.

I think you're missing the point, old soul. The point wasn't that Bayless was actually great and you can't judge his current level of play from what he's shown. The point was that it's silly to pronounce a final judgment on what Bayless can and can't ever accomplish based on those few minutes from last year and three Summer League games.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I think you're missing the point, old soul. The point wasn't that Bayless was actually great and you can't judge his current level of play from what he's shown. The point was that it's silly to pronounce a final judgment on what Bayless can and can't ever accomplish based on those few minutes from last year and three Summer League games.

Fair enough. If Blake goes down, I don't believe Bayless is ready to step in. That doesn't mean he will *never* be ready.

 

[Nikolokolus]

This summer league team sans Cunningham might just be the worst roster I've ever seen the Blazers field in the 5 or so years I've watched. I know Bayless has looked pretty dreadful and it's a huge concern if he was asked to carry the team next year should Blake get injured, but I can't help but think there's very little to take away from this week other than that I don't think Bayless can be counted on to perform a Chris Paul miracle; whereby you take a team full of scrubs mix in Paul and he makes them all substantially better than they really are. In that sense Bayless is completely unprepared to make lesser talents better, but since he won't be playing with lesser talents next season I guess there's nothing to do but wait and see what the coaches and management decide they can do with him in training camp. Who knows maybe he'll pull a "Batum" on us followup a lackluster summer league showing with a full 180 in training camp (I'd settle for at least 120 at this point).

Bottom line: I think KP is going to have to at least add one low cost veteran point guard in the Jacques Vaughn, Earl Watson, Bobby Jackson mold as some emergency insurance or there could be some really bad times ahead barring some unforseen trade for Hinrich/Harris/etc.

 

[Ed O]

this is a completely BOGUS argument. If you are watching the games, Pooh is playing with the exact same cast of players - but at least he can somewhat run the team.

Why is it that when ever Pooh is playing PG, the team appears to play better? Answer - Because Bayless is NOT a PG. He is a SG in the mold of Ben Gordon.

I don't think, after watching all three games, that the team DOES "appear to play better" with Jeter, so I don't feel compelled in the least to answere your question or agree with your conclusion.

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I agree that Jeter hasn't looked good either. In fact, there are players on the D-League Select team that have looked better than any guard on our team.

 

[Peaceman]

The NBA is full of score first PG's. Bayless may only be able to be that kind of PG and pick up a more pass first mentality as he matures. Why did we want Hedo? To add another person who can attack the basket. Lets be a little more patient. Can we not freak out about summer league. Geez, what happen to our top 5 talent Qwoods? We should be able to trade him staight across for Chris Paul based on his summer league stats. The guy will be a 10 time All-Star for sure.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here's the thing: if Bayless has an NBA skill it's penetrating and scoring. It isn't running a team. Why are we hoping he'll acquire a skill that, when he's using it, takes away from what he does best? Why can't we trade him for somebody who is a better "fit"? Did the Bulls try to make Ben Gordon into a PG? Are the Warriors seriously thinking that Monta Ellis is their PG of the future? Iverson racked up plenty of assists in his time, but they saw pretty quickly (despite him logging entire seasons, heavy minutes at the 1) that he would never be a PG. It's a waste! Free Bayless from these unrealistic expectations!

I have a sad feeling that they're only trying to do this because his value around the league has sunk to the extent that we can't get anything for him of remote use.

I'm a big proponent of the "allow a player to play to his strengths" school of thought. Therefore, if we are resigned to the idea that Bayless is going to play 15-20 mpg this year, wouldn't it make sense to ensure that those minutes occurred while someone else was "running the team" (ie, #7)? I say start him; do with him this year what we did with Batum last year. In pre-season, at the very least.

 

[LOTBfan]

No, didn't say that. You accused me of not watching but 2 or 3 minutes of junk time. You were wrong.

And for good measure: FUCK. Colorful, no?

Good for you, you have demonstrated three things:

You are illiterate.
You know how to use html code.
Your communication skills are so poor you can't convey your point without childish expletives.

Bet you make your family proud.

None of your skills, or lack there of, impress me or interest me so welcome to ignore.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Good for you, you have demonstrated three things:

You are illiterate.
You know how to use html code.
Your communication skills are so poor you can't convey your point without childish expletives.

Bet you make your family proud.

None of your skills, or lack there of, impress me or interest me so welcome to ignore.

If I'm illiterate I wonder why you even responded to me?

I think that's my first ignore. I have to admit, I'm actually kind of proud.