Politics Survey: Majority of Conservatives Think College is Bad for America

[bluefrog]

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education/

Right wingers are praised by their leaders for being uninformed. "I love the poorly educated." It's a badge of honor - my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. Anything they disagree with is "Leftist political dogma" and people with any education after high school are "over-educated idiotic progressive bullies."

And conservative leaders love it because their indoctrination garbage is now gospel. While they're publicly trashing higher education, they're sending their own kids to universities. Stated values vs. revealed values and all that jazz. Claiming the shrimp is terrible, as you shovel more onto your plate, just isn’t convincing.

 

[Lanny]

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/the-growing-partisan-divide-in-views-of-higher-education/

Right wingers are praised by their leaders for being uninformed. "I love the poorly educated." It's a badge of honor - my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. Anything they disagree with is "Leftist political dogma" and people with any education after high school are "over-educated idiotic progressive bullies."

And conservative leaders love it because their indoctrination garbage is now gospel. While they're publicly trashing higher education, they're sending their own kids to universities. Stated values vs. revealed values and all that jazz. Claiming the shrimp is terrible, as you shovel more onto your plate, just isn’t convincing.

Are you trying to convince us that far Right Republicans do not value an education? Gasp, why was this never thought of before? Does this explain Trump's popularity among those people? (answer-yes).
Hey, you know what I noticed? There was a big change in that direction in about 2016. What happened in 2016?

 

[ABM]

Polls are polls. We all could probably substantiate our own beliefs depending on the poll we choose to use:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/07/26/most-americans-say-higher-ed-is-heading-in-wrong-direction-but-partisans-disagree-on-why/?utm_source=AdaptiveMailer&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=18-7-26 Higher ed press release&org=982&lvl=100&ite=2932&lea=651931&ctr=0&par=1&trk=

As 10th grade high school dropout, I've sometimes wondered about the significance of a college education. I've always, though, come to the conclusion that I wished I'd completed high school and went on to get a degree. Interestingly, many of my colleagues, friends, and family don't have degrees related in any way to the profession they're in. I've wondered why that was the case. Never really asked, though.

At any rate, I don't get too bent out of shape in terms of the "liberalism", etc., of our public upper learning institutions. It is what it is. Plus, there are many private choices, so, whatever.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I have my issues with colleges, and the “systems”, we have in place. However one way or another people need to find a way to educate themselves or it’s going to make life harder on them then it needs to be.

 

[Natebishop3]

I will say this, we need to rethink the idea that every single person should go to college. We have been operating under that idea since I was a kid, and now we have a ton of people with useless degrees, tons of debt from college loans, and really a huge lack of people going into the trades.

Our schools need to stop putting it into kids heads that they're a failure if they don't go to college.

 

[barfo]

I will say this, we need to rethink the idea that every single person should go to college. We have been operating under that idea since I was a kid, and now we have a ton of people with useless degrees, tons of debt from college loans, and really a huge lack of people going into the trades.

Our schools need to stop putting it into kids heads that they're a failure if they don't go to college.

Agreed, they're a failure either way.

barfo

 

[barfo]

On the subject - I think this is probably a less worrying specific than the overall trend of Republicans becoming extremely anti-intellectual - and not just anti-ivory-tower-intellectual. The current Republican party is anti-science, anti-education, anti-expert, anti-fact, and pretty much anti-reality.

Probably after another couple of election cycles the Republican party will be run by a naked hairy guy named Trog who just grunts and hits people with a stick.

And some of you will vote for Trog, because he trots out a strong game.

barfo

 

[Lanny]

Agreed, they're a failure either way.

barfo

Some kids aren't built for college, meaning they can't properly read or write. They don't even know if they're in Pleasure or Toledo. I don't think they can pound a square peg in a round hole even with a big hammer (their favorite tool).

 

[Natebishop3]

Republicans becoming extremely anti-intellectual

This has a lot to do with colleges becoming very very very anti conservative. To the point where they won't allow conservative speakers on campus. My last year of college was back in 2015. I can attest that the environment was almost exclusively liberal. The professors spoke like everyone was liberal in class. I felt like I could never voice any kind of opposition and I know I wasn't the only one. If the conservatives are becoming more and more anti-intellectual, the liberals are becoming more and more anti-free thought.

 

[riverman]

Our schools need to stop putting it into kids heads that they're a failure if they don't go to college.

this is simply false....if you don't use college or high school or tech schools to improve your life it's your own choice. Even in the Navy you test into different schools for your skillset. I've never heard of a teacher telling students that not going to college is failure....parents, yes...not schools....colleges lobby for business just like anyone else....I loved school....made the most of it..my father was way more successful financially than I ever was and he had an 8th grade education and was a farmer...very good head for money and very smart man.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

This has a lot to do with colleges becoming very very very anti conservative. To the point where they won't allow conservative speakers on campus. My last year of college was back in 2015. I can attest that the environment was almost exclusively liberal. The professors spoke like everyone was liberal in class. I felt like I could never voice any kind of opposition and I know I wasn't the only one. If the conservatives are becoming more and more anti-intellectual, the liberals are becoming more and more anti-free thought.

All colleges are different I suppose, but PCC / PSU back 15 years ago when I was there was the most echo chamber-ish places I had ever been for liberal politics. Like if you didn't just take what they said and echo their beliefs they would literally fail you. So you just wrote down their opinions and got good grades. I didn't finish school at the time and conservatives have their own echo chambers and such and places thought control, but my experiences were similar.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

this is simply false....if you don't use college or high school or tech schools to improve your life it's your own choice. Even in the Navy you test into different schools for your skillset. I've never heard of a teacher telling students that not going to college is failure....parents, yes...not schools....colleges lobby for business just like anyone else....I loved school....made the most of it..my father was way more successful financially than I ever was and he had an 8th grade education and was a farmer...very good head for money and very smart man.

My friend had a Math teacher who said, "If you aren't in calculus by the 11th grade you will be a failure". I had an AP Biology teacher in 10th grade, basically, echo the same thing and said, "Your school mates who can't get into AP classes will be pumping gas for a living".

 

[riverman]

My friend had a Math teacher who said, "If you aren't in calculus by the 11th grade you will be a failure". I had an AP Biology teacher in 10th grade, basically, echo the same thing and said, "Your school mates who can't get into AP classes will be pumping gas for a living".

some folks don't mind pumping gas....my dad made a lot of money cleaning out his dairy barns and spreading manure on the fields. If a teacher says those things....they should be called out on it...there are some really BAD teachers who only teach for a paycheck and a soapbox....they have no authority over anyone's choices

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

some folks don't mind pumping gas....my dad made a lot of money cleaning out his dairy barns and spreading manure on the fields.

Sure, but the implication was definitely your friends life will suck if they aren't smart enough for AP classes.

 

[riverman]

Sure, but the implication was definitely your friends life will suck if they aren't smart enough for AP classes.

there's a lesson in that.....I call it asshole recognition...a valuable skill

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

some folks don't mind pumping gas....my dad made a lot of money cleaning out his dairy barns and spreading manure on the fields. If a teacher says those things....they should be called out on it...there are some really BAD teachers who only teach for a paycheck and a soapbox....they have no authority over anyone's choices

I get that you have experience in teaching, and being in that world, but honestly, my experiences with School made me HATE school. I was in PPS from K-9th and I remember 2 good teachers, and many bad ones who literally did not care about their students AT ALL, I remember being in classrooms multiple times where the lesson of the day was tell your parents to vote for this ballot measure so we can make more money. I remember teachers saying to us as students, things like what I said above. I am not going to remove my own problems from the situation, I had my own issues but I really hated school. It wasn't until after I dropped out of college and found something I really enjoyed that I was like hey learning can be fun, and took off towards educating myself.

I'm not saying all teachers are bad, I know there are good ones out there but my experience was pretty bad, and I had several friends who echoed similar sentiments as adults.

I actually do find education really important. I'm not downplaying it, but sometimes the way you talk about teachers it's odd to me because my personal experience seems to be much different than yours.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

@riverman don't take that too personally! I appreciate your perspective. It just seems so foreign to me when it comes to teachers and the education system. When the subject has come up, a lot of what you say about it doesn't seem to match what my personal experience with school was like.

 

[barfo]

This has a lot to do with colleges becoming very very very anti conservative. To the point where they won't allow conservative speakers on campus. My last year of college was back in 2015. I can attest that the environment was almost exclusively liberal. The professors spoke like everyone was liberal in class. I felt like I could never voice any kind of opposition and I know I wasn't the only one. If the conservatives are becoming more and more anti-intellectual, the liberals are becoming more and more anti-free thought.

I can't speak to your experience, because obviously I'm not you, and also because I went to college many decades ago.

But how do you know that the situation has even changed as compared to some date in the past? Maybe colleges have always been the way you experienced them in 2015.

barfo

 

[GhostOfPGA]

There are a lot of people with worthless degrees out there who are balls deep in debt because of it, that’s for sure. It’s not our responsibility to bail them out of it either.

 

[oldfisherman]

Wow, totally confused how there is a debate on this subject.

Many jobs require a degree to be just considered to be hired or promoted. A degree shows a commitment to self improvement.

I believe the real debate should be the value of a liberal arts degree vs a degree in science, tech, engineering, and math (STEM).

STEM degrees pay more, and are more in demand than liberal arts degrees. STEM degrees are the future.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

My friend had a Math teacher who said, "If you aren't in calculus by the 11th grade you will be a failure". I had an AP Biology teacher in 10th grade, basically, echo the same thing and said, "Your school mates who can't get into AP classes will be pumping gas for a living".

If you get into the AP classes, you are kicking it with the elites and illuminati

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Wow, totally confused how there is a debate on this subject.

Many jobs require a degree to be just considered to be hired or promoted. A degree shows a commitment to self improvement.

I believe the real debate should be the value of a liberal arts degree vs a degree in science, tech, engineering, and math (STEM).

STEM degrees pay more, and are more in demand than liberal arts degrees. STEM degrees are the future.

Was there a debate going on? I don't think anyone was saying that education is bad, or that degrees are bad.

I got hired as an SW Engineer w/o a degree. I did have a bunch of certifications I got after I quit college though. Also did some projects freelance, proved I could do it and got in it. That said I'd rather doctors weren't "hired" that way heh. Worked with an MIT Professor for about a year too which helped a lot, so can't say I didn't have the "education" at all just not the traditional path.

 

[Natebishop3]

how do you know that the situation has even changed as compared to some date in the past?

Because politics has changed.

Because the parties have changed.

Because schools have changed.

Because our culture has changed.

 

[riverman]

High school dropouts who want to be pilots or heart surgeons or dentists and don't think they need schooling can look elsewhere for clients......not getting my money.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

High school dropouts who want to be pilots or heart surgeons or dentists and don't think they need schooling can look elsewhere for clients......not getting my money.

One time I wish I hadn't listened to my mom was right after high school wanted to join the air force they make you take those stupid tests to see how smart you are, they basically said oh you can pick whatever you want to do I scored in the top like 5%, or so they said, who knows w/ recruiters and all that crap, but I had met with them and I wanted to be a fighter pilot so bad... My mom lost her mind that I was going to go to die, so I didn't go. That would've been an awesome job.

 

[Lanny]

This has a lot to do with colleges becoming very very very anti conservative. To the point where they won't allow conservative speakers on campus. My last year of college was back in 2015. I can attest that the environment was almost exclusively liberal. The professors spoke like everyone was liberal in class. I felt like I could never voice any kind of opposition and I know I wasn't the only one. If the conservatives are becoming more and more anti-intellectual, the liberals are becoming more and more anti-free thought.

That's strange. In all my college classes, and they are extensive, I've never noticed a political bent in any of them. Of course, except for a few courses in the social sciences and liberal arts all of my classes have either been technical or PE. I did take a class in upper division German and some courses in economics along with writing, technical writing, speech, environmental impact statement formulation and sex education. The rest have all been physics, chemistry, mathematics and a bunch of courses in engineering including solid state devices, electronics, field theory including Maxwell's equations, numerous general engineering courses, engineering econ., computer programming of numerous types including object oriented programming and ethics in computer science. I've also taken courses in building codes and computer graphics (Autodesk). And now to answer your burning question, yes, I am a member of a national honor society with a GPA of nearly 4.0. Was I tooting my own horn? Oops, didn't mean to do that. I lie occasionally but only about the part about not meaning to toot my own horn.
I've taken a lot of PE classes. Healthy body, healthy mind, it's a Greek thing (people, people, not that kind of Greek thing).

 

[Lanny]

One time I wish I hadn't listened to my mom was right after high school wanted to join the air force they make you take those stupid tests to see how smart you are, they basically said oh you can pick whatever you want to do I scored in the top like 5%, or so they said, who knows w/ recruiters and all that crap, but I had met with them and I wanted to be a fighter pilot so bad... My mom lost her mind that I was going to go to die, so I didn't go. That would've been an awesome job.

When I was 14, I wanted to be a fighter pilot. But then, I developed a need for glasses. By the time I was 19 I couldn't join the Air Force or Navy or any of the reserves because we were all getting drafted into the Army and in my case nearly the Marines. After getting drafted I took all those damned tests. Then, I tried to go into the MPs but they said now way, and sent me to 7 months of electronics school even though I was only in for two years. Just before getting out they sent me to a TV repair course for yet another two months.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

That's strange. In all my college classes, and they are extensive, I've never noticed a political bent in any of them. Of course, except for a few courses in the social sciences and liberal arts all of my classes have either been technical or PE. I did take a class in upper division German and some courses in economics along with writing, technical writing, speech, environmental impact statement formulation and sex education. The rest have all been physics, chemistry, mathematics and a bunch of courses in engineering including solid state devices, electronics, field theory including Maxwell's equations, numerous general engineering courses, engineering econ., computer programming of numerous types including object oriented programming and ethics in computer science. I've also taken courses in building codes and computer graphics (Autodesk). And now to answer your burning question, yes, I am a member of a national honor society with a GPA of nearly 4.0. Was I tooting my own horn? Oops, didn't mean to do that. I lie occasionally but only about the part about not meaning to toot my own horn.
I've taken a lot of PE classes. Healthy body, healthy mind, it's a Greek thing (people, people, not that kind of Greek thing).

I will say that since my time in school, Ive worked with OSU’s Robotics group. Oregon State has a fairly new robotics group but its like 4th in the nation and they've been great. Ive worked with MIT, NYIT, Cornell, UMASS as well, politics has only ever even come up in after hours functions.

 

[Lanny]

I will say that since my time in school, Ive worked with OSU’s Robotics group. Oregon State has a fairly new robotics group but its like 4th in the nation and they've been great. Ive worked with MIT, NYIT, Cornell, UMASS as well, politics has only ever even come up in after hours functions.

I've toured our Robotics lab. It was during a visit to our head of the engineering department who asked the head of mechanical engineering to take us on the tour. They had the first robot that could run on two legs. I watched a demonstration of the robot running. The software was written at least principally in C++. They were also working on robotics for paralyzed people.

During my tour I learned that Dearborn was no longer an electrical engineering building and that my graduation picture was taken down from the hallway and placed in a computer somewhere. Kind of disappointing but you had to expect it sooner or later.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I've toured our Robotics lab. It was during a visit to our head of the engineering department who asked the head of mechanical engineering to take us on the tour. They had the first robot that could run on two legs. I watched a demonstration of the robot running. The software was written at least principally in C++. They were also working on robotics for paralyzed people.

During my tour I learned that Dearborn was no longer an electrical engineering building and that my graduation picture was taken down from the hallway and placed in a computer somewhere. Kind of disappointing but you had to expect it sooner or later.

Most Robotics is written in C/C++, I was under the impression Boston dynamics had the first walking robot, but it doesn't surprise me that OSU did, they have a bunch of very gifted people doing Ph.D. work there. Were you with Bill Smart? He's a great dude. I've interacted with him a few times, my boss is usually the contact when I have questions though.