Suspected Jihadists hack man to death in London

[TradeNurkicNow]

Bah

Hoo is correct..these guys are a peacefull religion only...sunshine, flowerss and little fuzzy bunnies...

"Islam is a religion, the tenets of which sometimes inform various forms of government. There are four, maybe five, Islamic republics in the world. I'll give you a cookie if you can name them without looking."

Sayeth Hoo




and I wil give you a cookie if you can tell me how many countries are attacked by state sponsered terrorism, thanks to this "reigion"

Critical thinking and reading comprehension.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

When people lump the Westboro Baptist "Church" in with Christians in general, an immediate and vehement condemnation is almost sure to follow.

But I expect and immediate and vehement condemnation from every single Christian. If they don't, how am I supposed to know they're not part of the WBC or at least sympathize with them? I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to take that risk.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Islam is the root of the problem.

Muhammad is a violent "prophet" and that book is their guide.


Zohar II 43a: "Extermination of Christians is a necessary sacrifice."

Quran 8:12: “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"

Ooh, quotes! You sound like you definitely know what you're talking about. Tell me more.

 

[santeesioux]

Does the US have a version of the EDL?

English Defense League? Neo Nazis? Some militias?

 

[donkiez]

Yep, just as much as every suicide bomber is well-fed and employed.

And educated, in a lot of those countries the imams are the primary source of information. Its like a twisted Truman Show. People generally accept the reality presented to them.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Direct quotes and blatantly obvious.

Oh wait, am I interpreting them incorrectly?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Exterminate non believers must be a metaphor for love thy neighbor.

 

[donkiez]

Direct quotes and blatantly obvious.

Oh wait, am I interpreting them incorrectly?

Don't know, its out of context. How many ways do people interpret the bible?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Wow.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Direct quotes and blatantly obvious.

Oh wait, am I interpreting them incorrectly?

You're not interpreting them at all, that's the issue.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

You're not interpreting them at all, that's the issue.

I don't have to when the message is so crystal clear.

Please, I'd love to see you interpret those messages.

I'll wait.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

I don't have to when the message is so crystal clear.

Please, I'd love to see you interpret those messages.

I'll wait.

Thanks for waiting.

Given that things are so crystal clear, I'm sure that it's fairly obvious that the Zohar is part of the Kabbalah, which is a mystic interpretation of the Torah, which is, and I'm sure this is already crystal clear, of the Hebrew tradition.

Swing and a miss. Moving on.

What with all the crystal clarity, I'm sure I don't even need to tell you that Surat al-anfal (Qur'an chapter 8) was written about the Battle of Badr. Even more crystal clear must be the translation. I'm sure you've done the work and given a good faith interpretation of the passage and didn't just lift the first thing you saw on ReligionOfPeace.com. In case you want to re-check your crystal clear analysis, go ahead and go to this website (which I'm sure you already know about)

There you will be reminded that this quote is NOT an imperative, that it is God saying that HE will strike terror into the hearts of the unbelievers so that the Muslims could more easily defeat them (during the Battle of Badr, the one this sura was written about.) I'm sure this mistake was purely accidental, given the crystal clear nature of it all.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Mystic interpretation....

Convienent.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Mystic interpretation....

Convienent.

god dammit it was green font the whole time

 

[oldguy]

And, do we actually know why these people did it? just because they shouted "Allahu akbar" during the act doesn't mean they were doing it for Islam. People say that all the time for all kinds of reasons, usually when something good happens.

So they might have been shouting Allahu akbar because butchering a man is something good?

Well put. And I suppose, when I travel especially, that I have done a lot to identify myself as separate from the group of young American males that have killed thousands of people in order to further their agenda -- the U.S. military.

Interestingly enough, those Americans spend billions trying to minimize injury and death to non-combatants, while Islamic terrorists purposely maim and kill women and children.

This is a great point. Want the root cause of terrorism? It's not religion, it's poverty.

So a bunch of Saudis were so outraged by their poverty, they flew jets into the World Trade Center? Being poor caused the two jerkoffs to set off bombs at the Boston Marathon? Judging by how long they were in the US, and the fact that they seemed to live pretty normal lives (apart from taking flying lessons, maybe), poverty as the motivator doesn't work for me, at least in these cases. But I'm pretty sure they were extremist followers of Islam.

Go Blazers

 

[PapaG]

The ignorance of Christians is astounding.

The ignorance of Atheists, Muslims, and Christians astounds me...

 

[MickZagger]

Don't these threads that turn into athiests vs. christian debates get old?

Its like the same day that VanilGoril found out Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny weren't real, he also found out God wasn't real and needs to let the world know.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

So they might have been shouting Allahu akbar because butchering a man is something good?

Well they were butchering the man, weren't they? So obviously they thought it was the right thing to do. Allahu akbar is kind of like "Fuck yeah!"

Interestingly enough, those Americans spend billions trying to minimize injury and death to non-combatants, while Islamic terrorists purposely maim and kill women and children.

Truth. Doesn't change anything though.

So a bunch of Saudis were so outraged by their poverty, they flew jets into the World Trade Center? Being poor caused the two jerkoffs to set off bombs at the Boston Marathon? Judging by how long they were in the US, and the fact that they seemed to live pretty normal lives (apart from taking flying lessons, maybe), poverty as the motivator doesn't work for me, at least in these cases. But I'm pretty sure they were extremist followers of Islam.

You're right. Terrorist that the media covers most of all are extremist followers of Islam. The mujahideen training camps in Afghanistan were famously filled with rich Gulfis who felt they needed to perform jihad. The terrorist acts that those extremists are a tiny minority of terrorism as a whole. But it is what we hear about the most (surprise, surprise.)

The vast majority of Islamic terrorism is in the Middle East perpetrated by Muslims on Muslims. Every suicide bomb that goes off in Baghdad or Kabul or Islamabad is done by a desperate kid who poor, hungry, under-educated and disenfranchised. Radical Imams suck these kids up and use them for their power games. They use a widely rejected interpretation of Islam to convince them that self sacrifice is the way to salvation and martyrdom. Sure, they may shout Allahu akbar before they pull the cord, and they are probably told they'll be greeted in paradise by however many virgins. But in the end, it's not about "Because the Qur'an says so." The root motivation is poverty and the humiliation of not being able to earn a living, provide for their families or get married. Radical Islam is the catalyst that allows these kids to vent their frustrations. To them, everyone is the enemy, especially moderate Muslims.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Every suicide bomb that goes off in Baghdad or Kabul or Islamabad is done by a desperate kid who poor, hungry, under-educated and disenfranchised.

False. In fact, it's not even close anymore. At least, not in Kabul, Islamabad, Kandahar or the like.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

False. In fact, it's not even close anymore. At least, not in Kabul, Islamabad, Kandahar or the like.

That's been the common understanding in academic circles. I'd be interested in what you think has changed, considering you've been (and are now?) on the ground.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Yeah, I'm still here. I can only speak definitively for Helmand/Kandahar province, and probably not enough unclass to satisfy. While your premise (maybe?) used to be the case--I don't have an argument either way--now the bombers are generally middle- to upper-middle class foreigners who are trying to get their jihad card punched while there are still "infidels occupying" the land. Recent guys have been from Saudi, Iran, Oman, Pakistan. They are being recruited by clerics and the commanders in Quetta and Iran; harbored in homes and fed by middle-class people in Afghanistan who are being threatened by Taliban squads, neither of whom can be called poor and/or disenfranchised; equipped and given orders by commanders on the ground who are making money off of the shadow taxes and narco trade. The bombs are manufactured by highly-educated people outside the province and smuggled in or the engineers come into Afghanistan and give classes on fertilizer bomb-making.
There have been plenty of things done, both by the military and civilian organizations, to improve quality of life. And for the most part, they're holding. There are fewer people sending their kids to madrassas just to get them an education, because there are many more schools in the province.

I'm with you that it's not all "Islam"...in fact, here it's much more narco- and power/money-based fighting, with a leavening of tribal infighting. The "Taliban" is the Taliban of the 90's in name only. They're much more concerned with border smuggling (not just drugs, and to both Pakistan and Iran) and keeping a hold on some level of shadow governance (taxing power generators, road checkpoints, traveling "justice squads", etc.) than religious purity of the Islamic Republic.

In Quetta it's a bit different--there has been an uptick in attacks specifically against Shi'a adherents, which I think would fall close to (if not exactly) with your "radicals hate moderates" idea. Some opine that it's the ISI trying to re-establish some level of control over the Taliban and their associated madrassas and clerics, and they don't want to inflame Sunni (the vast majority of Pashtuns in both Afghanistan and northern Pakistan) sensibilities by just random bombings.

That was a bunch of randomness, but if you want more specifics I'll see what I can do. But it's no longer the homeless, illiterate guy who just wants a meal before going to see Allah that's committing the crimes and violence here in southern Afghanistan.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Droppin' knowledge

Very, very interesting. And hey, whenever you feel like chiming in about any of this, please do. I appreciate any in depth knowledge about this stuff just to show some people around here that it's not as black and white as they'd like to believe.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Agree with you about the not-black-and-white. But I try to stay away from the "religion of peace or not" stuff, and some arguments just aren't worth refuting or agreeing with in my limited posting time. However, sometimes it's just knowledge that hasn't made it out or around that could give thinkers a different perspective. That's all.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

they hate us for our freedom!?

for whatever reason the "WHY?" usually isnt touched on in these types of discussions

the likely cause for their disdain (especially seeing as how it was a soldier) might have more to do with US and friends presence in the middle east, support of saudi arabia, dead women and children, stealing oil, devastation of iraq, etc, etc...yes they also happen to be religious, much like the vast majority of the world

if we abandoned the middle east entirely (not gonna happen) a random attack or two still might happen for a cartoon of their super friend or some other perceived slight...there will always be the random wacko, but i think children would stop being raised with as much hatred in their hearts. i see no alternate debate on this point.

at the end of the day, muslims are not all under a blanket together. their views vary from country to country, sect to sect, culture to culture, why someone would lump them all together is short sighted, reactionary, and truthfully, kinda dangerous

 

[maxiep]

Because poverty in america is similar to poverty in Yemen.

On a relative level, it most certainly is.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Fantastic posting Brian

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Agree with you about the not-black-and-white. But I try to stay away from the "religion of peace or not" stuff, and some arguments just aren't worth refuting or agreeing with in my limited posting time. However, sometimes it's just knowledge that hasn't made it out or around that could give thinkers a different perspective. That's all.

Well, you are off doing actual things, so limited time is understandable. I'm working on a masters degree so I have plenty of time to try and convince people of this stuff. It's usually pretty pointless, but I have one of those personalities where my wife may be trying to get me to come to bed and I'm like, "NOT NOW HONEY SOMEONE IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET." So, yeah. I appreciate the insight.

 

[oldguy]

they hate us for our freedom!?

for whatever reason the "WHY?" usually isnt touched on in these types of discussions

the likely cause for their disdain (especially seeing as how it was a soldier) might have more to do with US and friends presence in the middle east, support of saudi arabia, dead women and children, stealing oil, devastation of iraq, etc, etc...yes they also happen to be religious, much like the vast majority of the world

if we abandoned the middle east entirely (not gonna happen) a random attack or two still might happen for a cartoon of their super friend or some other perceived slight...there will always be the random wacko, but i think children would stop being raised with as much hatred in their hearts. i see no alternate debate on this point.

at the end of the day, muslims are not all under a blanket together. their views vary from country to country, sect to sect, culture to culture, why someone would lump them all together is short sighted, reactionary, and truthfully, kinda dangerous

“We must never forget, brothers, to nurse our children and our grandchildren on hatred for them: for Zionists, for Jews,” Mr. Morsi declared. Egyptian children “must feed on hatred; hatred must continue,” he said. “The hatred must go on for Allah and as a form of worshiping him.”

Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi

do you even understand what that means? you are proving my point (hint, its the zionist part)